kverges

I have been following the pretty entertaining thermonuclear meltdown about the Z06 and things like "heat soak." Ironically, one of the catalysts has been one of the most factual and scientific posts on the topic. Many of the responses have been name-calling, and conspiracy theories.

But now that people of had their cars for a month or so, it seems very clear to me that the C7 Z06 is pretty much exactly on target for the buyers.

The list of pros, most of which are pretty undisputed, are:

1. Very nice aggressive good looks.
2. Very nice interior amenities, styling, materials, and comfort features.
3. Unbelievable value, with a base price of under $80,000. Unless you go crazy with options, I think it is fair to say you cannot buy more performance in a new car for less money.

4. Outstanding usability in day-to-day driving.

5. A great sound from the factory, and frankly I suspect a supercharger was selected, rather than turbos, because turbos tend to muffle the exhaust note.

The cons are pretty short, and frankly inconsequential to almost all of the target market for this car:

1. Excessive weight. Most track enthusiasts will agree that over 3500 pounds is pretty portly for a track car, especially when compared to the previous generation Z06.

2. For the drag and roll racers, not quite as much performance as people were hoping for. Even this con is inconsequential to me, as I have not been to a dragstrip in years, and have never (and will never) deliberately set up a planned race on the street into the triple digits. I might punch it from time to time from a roll, but that is short-lived and things like heat soak are inconsequential.

3. Maybe (and I emphasize maybe) problems with overheating when running large numbers of laps on a race track. And even then, you have to have a skill level to drive the car harder and faster than probably 90% of the persons who actually take the car to the track in order to experienc a problem (Even if there is one).

And that last con, is a big maybe because, even now, and despite NineBall's excellent and thorough reviews, even he has not done anything significant and quantitative to evaluate the Z06 on track. I put up an open invitation a couple of weeks ago to run cars at my home track, and have had no takers. That tells me that, although some persons may want to open track their car, really very few Z06 buyers are that interested in hard, fast track driving.

For those who have angst over the apparent inability of the car to do anything other than hero laps for short period of time, it is of no consequence to you. Be honest with yourself, you are not going to use the car that way, anyway, so who really cares?

So, in conclusion, I think the Z06 represents a fantastic GT car, that will do everything anyone wants on the street, from looking fantastic, to feeling great subjectively (especially with the low RPM torque), to being very comfortable and usable every single day.

No car is for everyone, and it remains to be seen whether this car is really very usable (in stock form) for 30-minute open track sessions. But so few people really use the car this way, that Chevrolet made the right choice on this car for the people who are really stepping up to buy it. And the conspiracy theorist in me also says that Chevrolet probably does not want me in the car, as my current Z06 has been in the shop for over two weeks with the latest track-related problem. Track-related warranty claims have got to be astronomically higher than all other types of warranty claims, so if the track guys stay out of this car, GM also reduces its warranty liability, without a substantial impact on sales.

If it sounds like I am a bit disappointed and down on the car, it is true. I do not think the car is likely to do well at my hands on track, and I really wanted to love the car and occasionally use it that way. Instead, I am going to hope that the C6Z06 has some kind of value as the last of the normally aspirated, high-RPM corvettes. Especially since it's current street value is about $35,000, I have to think it won't drop precipitously from there.

Finally, let's see if, for anyone who wants to comment on this thread, we can keep it civil, objective, and without name calling and recriminations

peterjank

I am disappointed that no one took you up on your offer. Would have been nice to get a track report from a fellow SRF driver. Hopefully I can get some track feedback from another source before my allocation comes up.

quick04Z06

Nice post.

Unless the Z07 aero and CCB brakes are for racing homologation and just window-dressing on the street car, I suspect these items, plus all of the coolers, dry sump, etc., are designed to make this car trackable, and by that I mean usable on the road course in HPDEs or at motorsports clubs. Is it a "track car" first and foremost? No, it is a street car with track cred, as I see it.

Will it overheat? Almost any street car will overheat if you beat on it long enough. All cars with ECMs will back off timing when the computer senses heat-related pre-detonation. My old silver C5Z (God rest its soul) would lose power at the track in the summer without the 98 octane unleaded racing gas to control knock. But, for a typical non-professional driver, I think this car will do just fine--no overheating, no brake fade--for 20-30 minute track sessions with a reasonable cool down between sessions. Time will tell.

To me, the biggest griping has been from drag racers and dyno guys. I do not understand how anyone can read the Z07 specs and not understand this car was not designed as a dragster (and any car can dyno well with the right mods--including these Z06s). I am not picking on anyone with this comment, as the Corvette attracts all kinds of enthusiasts--a good thing--but the specs speak for themselves.

Among other things, the car generates way too much downforce to drag well. By the time the Z07 hits 100, I assume from various articles that it is generating something like 500-700 pounds of downforce, meaning the 3500 pound car weights 4000-4200 pounds! Of course that slows it down over 100 mph and cuts top speed!! But as the Autoweek article says, the downforce means the car laps faster than cars with higher top speed but less downforce, like the mighty ZR1. If you want to drag, get a base Z, or better yet, a Hellcat Challenger or maybe an SS Camaro if you want to stay GM. This Z06 taps into Corvette's road racing successes at Le Mans and in ALMS--not NHRA titles.

I think this car is a peach. Great looking, great interior, reasonably affordable, and the closest thing most people will see to a truly comfortable street car that can track well on the road course bone stock, and with a "track" warranty to boot. Kudos to GM.

stevebz06

I think it is unrealistic to expect a mass-produced street legal car to lap race tracks near it's potential without finding problems. I always left some margin when I visited tracks, especially for the brakes, and I still was able to break things. That was partly the reason for tracking: finding weak spots. Heck, all-out race cars break things, too.

As for the weight issue, it could be addressed by GM fairly easily and inexpensively by going the route that the GT3, ACR, Ferrari, Lamborghini, BMW and even Chevrolet have already used, mainly by de-contenting the car, at least for a special order few.

Whenever I bring this option up, I get lectured on how this cannot be done by Corvette, because so few customers actually take their cars to the track and it wouldn't be profitable. I guess that needs to be explained to Porsche, Chrysler, Ferrari, Lamborghini, BMW, and the Camaro people.

sjohnson2615

It is a great street car and does that well. It was never meant to be a dedicated race car for roll races or track.
If someone likes to be a race car driver , more power to them , but buy a race car not a street car .

mirage2991

Pros'
1) yes
2) subjective
3) agreed, always has been one of the best corvette point
4) subjective, I can say the same in regards too all 3 of my C6's
5) yes, as most vette have, and no, GM stating packaging issues, I tend to trust them when it comes to that

Con's

1) yes, doesn't matter wether you are a track guy or not, it's disapointing
2) perhaps until you loose a couple time then you'll get annoyed and it doesn't compare to what GM said it would do -or at least how it came accross-
3) well, remember, GM said most trackable car, so that is implying that one with little experience could become really good really fast, thus that issue would show but according to the latest dyno comparo, no heat soaking….so this is unclear to me now what happened during GM's testing

My opinion is the C7Z06 is an improved iteration, and should have been marketed as such, not the be all of all corvettes. The performance delta is simply not equal to what happen between the C5Z and C6 Z cars when they came out

quick04Z06

We who have tracked all bring up the limited production, track special. Take out the lux items and beef up the running gear. These track specials usually cost lots more than their lesser compatriots, but I do think it is a nice way for a car company to make some extra dollars and give enthusiasts some other options.

But, even a GT3 is a street car with track cred. You have to buy a Cup car to get a real racer, and the GT3 warranty does not cover track use. As you point out, there will always be limitations to what a street car can do on the track. But, I think this new Z07 will do nicely for most drivers who want to track some in stock form and are not going to (and cannot) run the car at Andy Pilgrim speeds. Lap after lap at 10/10ths in the hands of a pro will wear out any street car pretty quickly.

quick04Z06

With all due respect, I predict this car will lap stock for stock at any road course faster than any other Corvette ever built--exactly as Chevy said it would.

Chevy never said it would be the best drag racer/best dynoing/best road course/best off-road/best show and shine/best everything car. They did say it would be faster at the road course.

Time will tell.

Steve Snake Driver

With the big discounts it appears being offered on Z/28's, I think you would find GM's taste for decontented 'track' cars going sour. The Viper sales woes are also an indication of lack of interest by American enthusiasts for decontented or more track focused cars. The ZO6 benefits greatly from sharing tech development costs with the Stingrays...something the Viper doesn't enjoy.

Some of your examples probably don't apply to same general markets. As an example, you could paint a cow pie red and put a Ferrari shield on it and it would sell like hotcakes (no pun intended) for a ridiculous price as long as you made it a 'limited run' and especially if available only to previous customers.

quick04Z06

You make a good point. The key for these specials is to make only a few hundred copies each year so demand always outstrips supply. Some will be collected, some will make it to the track, but all will sell. I doubt anyone will sell thousands of these kinds of cars, as you point out.

Interestingly, Porsche for years has made a nice profit selling real race cars in more-or-less turnkey, homologated form. I have always thought Chevy should do that with Corvette. Sure, these would cost $500,000 each, but selling 25 each year and providing good support for them for a fee, would make a nice profit for GM and build even more credibility with road racers.

Steve Snake Driver

That business model can work both ways. I know many Ford guys were very annoyed by some antics such as the Mustang Cobra R's. A few high performance models, ridiculously priced and only available to the annointed few (believe it was a SCCA license required at first or be approved by Ford). This while the showroom cars available to mere mortals were, to be kind, slow. Never was a class where they were competitive and I understand you see a few at the all-Ford events circling a track - but not very fast. Was a great marketing tool - for Chevrolet and Chrysler as the Viper and C5Z06 trounced it in every test. My opinion anyway.

jbondfl

Patience friends,,, patience.
I have it on very good authority that you will get a post about REAL Track experience in the next couple of days. The guys is just really really busy.

Here's the teaser..... TWO drivers in two different run groups put this car on track almost constantly for the entire weekend. NO heat soak,,, NO limp mode,,, NO brake fade (CCR). Yes, it pulls timing but it is still faster than a C6Z06 in corners and straights. Headers and a tune (on another C7Z06 at the same track) made a big difference on the STRAIGHTS ONLY. How hard was the car really pushed??? The Cup tires are completely bald now after one weekend.

Stay tuned (get it?? tuned?? ) for more details from the owner.....

dwward

Very well said Keith. I think you have it exactly right.

As I've said before, GM has no interest in building a another Viper and sharing a market of a 1000 or so consumers. Those who expected such a car were never being realistic.

GM has build a remarkably priced and remarkably capable GT car with no equal which is exactly what they set out to do. I couldn't be more excited even as I understand some will be disappointed. And I don't think the cost to make this more of a track car will be significant.

BOBSZ06

Disappointed, based upon what you have read?
Have you driven the Z06? Well

Report back once you have driven the Z06 and then let us know of your findings!

rikhek

FWIW, the laws of physics are inconsistent with your understanding of pound-mass and pound-force. Aero providing 500 - 700 lb-force does not equate to an additional lb-mass of 500 - 700. You're comparing apples to oranges.

One of the greatest sources of confusion in the Imperial (or U.S. Customary) system of measurement is that both mass and force are measured using the same unit, the pound. The differentiate between the two, we call one type of pound the pound-mass (lbm) and the other the pound-force (lbf).

http://www.durhamcollege.ca/wp-conte...unds-Force.pdf

http://www.durhamcollege.ca/wp-conte...unds-Force.pdf

ZFORME

When GM tested the C7 Z06 at their Milford track it was faster than a ZR1 right out of the box first test. This car will run but the first year is the start of the learning curve for endurance and power tweaking.

KustomsbyKev

kverges

This is incorrect. I carefully researched the 991 GT3 warranty and track use is covered. You are required to do more maintenance, which makes sense, but the manual sets out track-specific intervals.

The Cup car is the real race car, it is true, and it punches way above its weight in terms of pace for horsepower. As does the GT3: with only 475 rated hp it was tested by Car and Driver in the Nov 2013 issue with a 6700-rpm start to a 3.0-second run to 60 mph and a 11.2-second quarter-mile time at 126 mph. I expect a C7Z06 to eclipse those numbers, but on a road course I personally expect the GT3 to run more fast laps than the Z (which is why I have a GT3 coming and am in wait-and-see mode on the Z). Heck, some track tests put the GT3 up with the 458 and MP4-12C. So as expensive as the GT3 is, it is a bargain in that company.

But the GT3 damned well better outperform the Z on a road course for about a $50K-ish premium (my fairly low optioned order is $140K). When price is part of the equation, the Z likely comes out on top.

kverges

I look forward to the report; I hope it includes lap times, session duration and temperatures.

kverges

I have not; I only have time in the C6 Z06. In 80 deg or so ambient, it goes to 305 oil, 240 water, and will fade brakes unless the pads are almost new and the fluid is SRF and fresh before the end of a 30 min session. My gut tells me that 350 extra lb, 145 extra hp will worsen this problem, but perhaps the cooling is enough to overcome in the C7.

But I would honestly love to be surprised, as I'd replace my C6Z with the C7 if the latter can hold up better on track, as the C7 would also be a nicer car to daily drive. Best of both worlds!

But I have doubts that anyone will let me test drive their new C7Z. That would be a bit nutty, especially if I do manage to overheat it and fade brakes. I'd be hammering the car really hard and am 100% confident that, given the mass and power, at the very least the tires would take a huge beating.