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Yes, Carbotech.. Are you using stock tires? I will be more than happy to help you...
Compounds below.
Carbotech™ 1521™
The Carbotech™ 1521™ is our high performance street compound. The 1521™ compound is known for its release and modulation, along with unmatched rotor friendliness. 1521™ is also a very low dusting and low noise compound with an excellent initial bite. This compound's excellent linear torque production provides incredible braking force without ABS intervention. Carbotech™ 1521™ operating range starts out at ambient and goes up to 800°F (426°C+). 1521™ is suitable for ALL street cars, perfect for your tow vehicle or fleet vehicle. Carbotech™ 1521™ is NOT recommended for ANY track use.
Carbotech™ AX6™
The AX6™ is specifically engineered for Autocross applications. A high torque brake compound delivering reliable and consistent performance over a very wide operating temperature range of 50°F to 1000°F + (10°C to 537°C+). The advanced compound matrix provides an excellent initial bite, high coefficient of friction at lower temperatures along with very progressive brake modulation and release characteristics. Many drivers use the AX6™ for street driving as well, even though Carbotech™ doesn't recommend street driving with AX6™ due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise. AX6™ is NOT recommended as a race compound in most applications.
Carbotech™ XP8™
A high torque brake compound with a wide operating temperature range of 200°F-1250°F+ (93°C to 676°C+). Carbotech™ XP8™ is the first of our racing compounds. Good initial bite at race temperatures, high coefficient of friction, excellent modulation and release characteristics. Extremely high fade resistance and very rotor friendly. Perfect for track day use with any tire and can still be driven safely to and from the track. Carbotech™ does NOT recommended XP8™ as a daily driven street pad due to elevated levels of dust and noise. Carbotech™ XP8™ is a great compound on the front & rear of most open wheel and sports racers.
Carbotech™ XP10™
When Carbotech™ unleashed the XP10™ to the general public it immediately gathered multiple regional, divisional, and national championships. The XP10™ has a very strong initial bite with a coefficient of friction and rotor friendliness unmatched in the industry. Fade resistance is in excess of 1475°F (801°C). XP10™ still maintains the highly praised release, excellent modulation and rotor friendliness that have made all Carbotech™ compounds so successful. Carbotech™ XP10™ is not recommended as a daily-driven street pad due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise.
Carbotech™ XP12™
Another highly successful XP™ series compound with an excellent initial bite, torque and fade resistance over and above the XP10™ compound. XP12™ has temperature range of 250°F to 1850°F+ (121°C to 1010°C+). The XP12™ has that excellent Carbotech™ release and modulation that has made all other Carbotech™ compounds so successful. The XP12™ is more rotor aggressive than XP10™, but compared to the competition the XP12™ is still very rotor friendly. XP12™ is NOT recommended for use as a daily driven street pad due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise.
Carbotech™ XP20™
The latest iteration of the highly successful XP™ series of compounds. XP20™ is a step up from the highly successful XP16™ compound. With an extremely aggressive initial bite, linear torque curve and excellent fade resistance the XP20™ is another major step in progression of the highly successful XP™ series line of compounds from Carbotech™. XP20™ has a temperature range of 275°F to 2000°F+ (135°C to 1093°C+). Carbotech™ XP20™ maintains our tradition of having the outstanding release and modulation that has made all other Carbotech™ compounds so successful. Carbotech™ XP20™ is NOT recommended for use as a daily driven street pad due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise.
Carbotech™ XP24™
XP24™ is the pinnacle compound of the extremely successful XP™ Series of compounds engineered by Carbotech™. This compound is based on the same fundamentals that exist in all other Carbotech™ formulations. XP24™ has even more initial bite, more overall bite, and more torque along with the most linear torque curve we have ever offered. The thermal characteristics are of the highest Carbotech™ offers along with one of the highest coefficient of friction ratings offered by anyone in the braking industry. This compound is the longest wearing compound Carbotech™ offers as it was originally engineered for endurance applications at the highest pro racing levels. This revolutionary new compound has been extremely successful with open wheel, closed wheel, sprint and endurance applications. XP24™ has a temperature range of 400°F to 2000°F+ (204°C to 1093°C+). Carbotech™ XP24™ is NOT recommended for use as a daily driven street pad due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise along with the necessary heat required to work properly.
Carbotech™ RP2™
The RP2™ compound was engineered for endurance racing based on our highly successful XP™ Series formulations. RP2™ has strong initial bite, a little less modulation than our XP12™, but still maintains the rotor friendliness of our XP™ series compounds. RP2™ has great fade resistance with a temperature range of 250°F to 1450°F+ (121°C to 787°C). RP2™ is as rotor friendly as our XP™ series compounds. Carbotech™ RP2™ is NOT recommended for use as a daily driven street pad due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise.
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Check out Promo code:z28
$300 for full set front and rear from amazon. Stock pads are very good.
Fronts from cadillac ctsv
Rears from c7 z51
Maybe some good after market pads out for either if those.
Will call you tomorrow. I was pretty surprised by the pedal feel and bite of the "stock pads" at Sebring this weekend. I was happy at Daytona, but suspect that GM used a slightly different compound in the pads out of the factory. I flushed and filled with SRF and had fresh pads (from Amazon) on the car and had a few "oh sh$t" moments...particularly into T7, T10 and T17 so suspect there may be a compound variable.
S.
I'd recommend Ferodo DS1.11 for heavy track use. It's an endurance racing compound that lasts a long time, has a nice flat torque curve, is easy on discs, and has great feel. We have a ton of our AP Racing big brake kit customers running them on all sorts of modded-out Corvettes with big power Katech engines and the like (as well as a host of other high-powered cars such as GT-R's, Porsches, Lambo's, Ferrari's, etc.).
We also have the DS2500 available in the proper shapes. The DS2500 is a great complement to the DS1.11. For these cars, the DS2500 would be great for daily driving, autoX, or maybe extremely light track duty on street tires. Or the DS2500 can be used in the rear if you prefer a staggered setup.
For most track scenarios in these cars however, the DS1.11 is the better choice.
All of the above pads are on the shelf and shipping from our Charlotte, NC warehouse now.
From our site: DS1.11 description
The DS1.11 is one of Ferodo's latest race pad offerings. It has slightly less bite at high temps. vs the DS3000, but doesn't decompose nearly as quickly under extended heavy use on the track. The DS1.11 is known for its extremely flat torque curve, which means that as temperatures go up, the response through the brake pedal remains consistent. If you want a pad that you can thrash all day without having it burn up or fade, the DS1.11 is a great choice.
DS2500 Description
The DS2500 is currently the best hybrid track/street pad on the market. It features the moderately high bite and solid fade resistance of a track pad, with the relatively low dust and noise levels of a street pad. When used as a street pad, it can produce some squeal on certain vehicle platforms. During aggressive driving the DS2500 is known for its flat torque curve, which means as temperatures go up, the response through the brake pedal remains consistent. If you drive aggressively on the street, do some canyon runs, autoX, and maybe some light track duty on street tires, the DS2500 is tough to beat. When used on fast, heavy cars on the track with race tires, pad wear rates tend to be higher than some of the full track pad compounds. Under those conditions, Essex would recommend the Ferodo DS1.11 or DSUNO.
Anyone have more detail about the stock pads (steel rotors)?
I believe they're made by Brembo? What compound?
I am pretty sure the stock pads are made by Ferodo and I think they might be the DS2500 compound. I'll try to dig up a box and look but usually you can see a Ferodo or Brembo sticker that is covered up poorly on the GM boxes.
FWIW, I'm very happy with the DS1.11 pads on track and get about 3x the life of the stock pads plus no fade.
I was not happy at all with the ferodo ds pads. They have not bite to them. They also would require a tremendous amount of pressure to get the car to slow. Got scary a few times didnt know if car would get slowed enough to get through the turns. 2 track days ran maybe 35% left of pad. May get 1 more day.
I have ran the hawk dtc 70 in the front and dtc 60 in the rear. Great bite and release. Wonderful pads just shorter life. Expect 2 full track days if you are a advanced driver.
I was not happy at all with the ferodo ds pads. They have not bite to them. They also would require a tremendous amount of pressure to get the car to slow. Got scary a few times didnt know if car would get slowed enough to get through the turns. 2 track days ran maybe 35% left of pad. May get 1 more day.
I have ran the hawk dtc 70 in the front and dtc 60 in the rear. Great bite and release. Wonderful pads just shorter life. Expect 2 full track days if you are a advanced driver.
I will be making a full review later today.
Sorry the DS1.11 didn't do it for you. The torque curve on the DS1.11's is very flat. That means to get more response you have to press harder. Some people like that, while others prefer a rising torque curve. Also, I'm not sure how much effort you put into bedding the DS1.11's in. Pads always have far better bite if they are bed-in properly prior to running them hard.
The Ferodo DSUNO is Ferodo's higher bite option with a rising torque curve. We usually start people on DS1.11, and if they want more bite we suggest trying the DSUNO.
In terms of life, you may simply be putting too much heat into them given your car, the tracks you're running, and your driving. Did you take any temperatures on your discs or calipers?
For long-term cost savings you may want to consider a complete big brake kit, particularly for the front of the car. Next week we are going to start shipping our new Pro5000R Radi-CAL Brake Kits for the C7 Z06. These kits are as close as you can get to the same AP Racing setup the C7.R's run. They offer the option of a 25mm thick pad and a much more efficient brake disc. You can see details in this thread. If you look on p.3 of that thread, one of our customers posted a pic of his pads after an entire race weekend (below). His car is obviously not as heavy or powerful as yours, but it gives a good idea of what pad wear could be if the overall brake setup is running at proper temperatures. If your discs are running at 1200 F all day, it's not going to matter what pad you use. It will likely burn up in fairly short order.
Here are his pads after an entire race weekend (and victory)...and these are only the thinner 18mm thick ones, not the 25mm thick:
These cars are brutal on brakes. I believe that in the coming years more and more people are going to find out that although it seems like a high cost of entry, a front BBK is going to save them a bundle of $ in the long-run when consumables are considered.
Thanks for the response on the brakes essex. Heat was not a issue I even had my brake coolers added for this track event. Pushing alot more air onto the front brakes than I have ever had in the past. Also I put alot of effort in the bedding in process even to the point of making me sick because of the repeated hard stops. I even had to exit the car and loss my lunch. This was all done prior to tracking as well.
Biggest problem we have is every brake pad vendor out here wants us to try their brakes. At a very large expense that is. Not a single brake vendor has real data on what their pads will do on these cars. We are the testers. I will say that the Ferodo DS 1.11's are not the right pad for this car. It simple will not stop it driven by a advance level driver. Many other track rats that I have spoken too over the weekend agreed. Sure they require alot of pedal effort but I was to the point I though I was going to break the peddle off a few times trying to get the car stopped. My leg would be fully extended and even cramp while holding it down coming down the back stretch at road atlanta. Sure wish the guys at KNS brakes would of known this. Would of saved me some big $$. To me the stock pads stopped as good as the DS1.11 pads do however they would fade later in the session.
last company I have not tried is PFC. I have made some calls into them and hopefully with some luck we can try something from them.
Again Im not witch hunting any of these vendors. Only supplying real word unscripted data from the drivers seat of a 2015 Zo6 with steel brakes.
Thanks for the response on the brakes essex. Heat was not a issue I even had my brake coolers added for this track event. Pushing alot more air onto the front brakes than I have ever had in the past. Also I put alot of effort in the bedding in process even to the point of making me sick because of the repeated hard stops. I even had to exit the car and loss my lunch. This was all done prior to tracking as well.
Biggest problem we have is every brake pad vendor out here wants us to try their brakes. At a very large expense that is. Not a single brake vendor has real data on what their pads will do on these cars. We are the testers. I will say that the Ferodo DS 1.11's are not the right pad for this car. It simple will not stop it driven by a advance level driver. Many other track rats that I have spoken too over the weekend agreed. Sure they require alot of pedal effort but I was to the point I though I was going to break the peddle off a few times trying to get the car stopped. My leg would be fully extended and even cramp while holding it down coming down the back stretch at road atlanta. Sure wish the guys at KNS brakes would of known this. Would of saved me some big $$. To me the stock pads stopped as good as the DS1.11 pads do however they would fade later in the session.
last company I have not tried is PFC. I have made some calls into them and hopefully with some luck we can try something from them.
Again Im not witch hunting any of these vendors. Only supplying real word unscripted data from the drivers seat of a 2015 Zo6 with steel brakes.
Understood on the cooling. That's good regardless of what pads you use. Most people don't address that issue.
Sorry you lost your lunch!
Pad feel is a subjective topic. Some people love the DS1.11, so do not. That is true of every pad compound from every manufacturer. To say they are not up to the task on this car is unfair however. Poor-sha above clearly is happy with them on this car, as are many other owners. We have a brake dyno in our facility, on which we test brake pads. We have no data to indicate that the DS1.11 will fade at any track temps a Z06 will reach. Based on your comments, it doesn't sound like you ran into any fade. You just wanted more mu/bite.
Also, I saw your post in another thread where you said you were getting 1 day out of your OEM pads, which cost $300. You paid $600 for the DS1.11, got 2 Days, and said you'll get one more. That means you'll get 3 days for $600, rather than 1 day for $300. In your situation the DS1.11 is still a great value vs. stock.
Sorry the DS1.11 weren't your thing. I'd recommend giving the DSUNO a shot. To draw a parallel to your comments...an E92 M3 customer abroad sent me an email last week with some comments after trying the DS1.11 and DSUNO. He also wasn't crazy about the DS1.11...his thoughts:
I actually forgot to give you an update about the different compounds. The DS1.11 I didn't quite fancy as it has less inital bite but it gets progressive. It feels like cold brakes when you stomp on it at the start of the braking zone and bites more progressively by the middle to the end of the braking zones. This happens at all the heavy braking zones. I find that I have to brake slightly earlier to adapt to these pads. No brake fade but the lack of initial bite made me guess my braking points which made me slower.
The DSUNO compound however gave me a sore neck the day after!!! .........and I love it. It's like running into a wall the moment I smash on the brakes. All the time, everytime. Not a sign of brake fade at all since I've got cooling ducts following your advice. I feel the DSUNO compound has the characteristics of the DS1.11 but bites1.5 times harder. The DSUNO doesn't squeal like the DS1.11 when cold. Both the DSUNO compound's brake dust gets a little bit much but not a big concern to me. Pad wear on both are quite similar with an approximate 1.5mm wear with 20-25 hot laps around the F1 sepang circuit on hot days. I forgot to measure the disc wear though. Sorry about that.
I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just think it's unfair to say the pads aren't suitable for these cars based on the subjective topic of feel. If they faded on the second lap, that would be a different story. Clearly you just need a higher mu pad with a different torque curve for your tastes. Most people have to wade through a number of options until they find what they like. Personally, I've tried about 50 different pad compounds over the years on my various track cars. That is not uncommon, as everyone likes something different. With brake pads there is no magic bullet that will please everyone. You'll need to experiment a bit to find what you like.
Thanks for the response on the brakes essex. Heat was not a issue I even had my brake coolers added for this track event. Pushing alot more air onto the front brakes than I have ever had in the past. Also I put alot of effort in the bedding in process even to the point of making me sick because of the repeated hard stops. I even had to exit the car and loss my lunch. This was all done prior to tracking as well.
Biggest problem we have is every brake pad vendor out here wants us to try their brakes. At a very large expense that is. Not a single brake vendor has real data on what their pads will do on these cars. We are the testers. I will say that the Ferodo DS 1.11's are not the right pad for this car. It simple will not stop it driven by a advance level driver. Many other track rats that I have spoken too over the weekend agreed. Sure they require alot of pedal effort but I was to the point I though I was going to break the peddle off a few times trying to get the car stopped. My leg would be fully extended and even cramp while holding it down coming down the back stretch at road atlanta. Sure wish the guys at KNS brakes would of known this. Would of saved me some big $$. To me the stock pads stopped as good as the DS1.11 pads do however they would fade later in the session.
last company I have not tried is PFC. I have made some calls into them and hopefully with some luck we can try something from them.
Again Im not witch hunting any of these vendors. Only supplying real word unscripted data from the drivers seat of a 2015 Zo6 with steel brakes.
Did you end up getting DS 1.11 on the rear? I wonder if this was in part because you were running something different on the rear? I'm really sorry they didn't work for you as I know I recommended them when we spoke and I know they're not cheap.
Like I said before, I agree that the feel is very similar to stock pads which I happen to like because it's easy to modulate. Unlike the stock pads they don't fade after a couple of laps and I am getting much better life out of them. I've never had an issue with them not stopping though.
P.S. I just remembered that I have some temp stickers in the trailer. I'll put some on when I got back to VIR next month and try to get some temp data to work with.
Jeff - I assume the DSUNO will result in more rotor wear over the DS 1.11? Are the compounds compatible from a bedding perspective?
I'm happy with the DS 1.11 but I have to wonder if I'm not missing something with all the folks that like high bite/mu pads. On my C6Z I was one of the few folks that ran DTC-60 instead of DTC-70 on the front. Perhaps I should try the high bite life.
I am pretty sure the stock pads are made by Ferodo and I think they might be the DS2500 compound. I'll try to dig up a box and look but usually you can see a Ferodo or Brembo sticker that is covered up poorly on the GM boxes.
FWIW, I'm very happy with the DS1.11 pads on track and get about 3x the life of the stock pads plus no fade.
There are the 'stock' replacement pads I bought form Amazon... pic below are the stock (old vs. new). I noticed they wear down faster on the track than the original OEM pads my car came with... I have 2 track days already with the new front pads and I have a feeling it may not last another 2 track days. Moving forward, I will definitely go with 2 sets- 1 for the track and 1 for the street since swapping out is pretty quick & easy.
04-26-2015, 08:27 PM
Track - Best brake pads for Z06 (cast iron rotors)
