DerStig

The answer to this problem is hidden in Tadge's response.

There is nothing GM can do about it. They would have to increase air flow which is not as simple as adding another cooler somewhere. Call it a design flaw or a limitation, but this issue is not going to go anywhere. They'd have to redesign the body of the car.

skinnywhite

just scanned this thread

setting aside the name-calling posts -- i'm grateful to the OP and those with cooler heads.

for background: i've owned 2 caymans, a 997S, a GT-R, and i currently own a 2011 Z06 Carbon Edition

i have a NASA TT hard card license, and have competed in TT in the Cayman, the GT-R, and the Z06

the cayman's have problems with a shared reservoir between the clutch and the brakes. the fluid overheats and you lose your clutch. they also had trouble in the Gen 1 cars with overheating the power steering.

however, despite running in high summer at VIR (i never went further south to Florida), i at least never had trouble with overheating the engine in either of my Caymans.

the 997S held up much better to track abuse than the caymans.

the GT-R was an embarrassing fat pig which was too heavy and attracted attention from fanboyracers. i had to ditch it. it wasn't fun on track -- more of a street car.

the Z06 was purchased because i could not afford a GT3. the Z06 has been a revelation.

it is BONE STOCK.

i was at Laguna Seca Thursday March 26th with Hooked On Driving. i missed some sessions in the morning because i stupidly did not bleed my brakes prior to the event and had some air bubbles (a first i might add -- no more MOTUL -- back to SRF) -- so the kind folks at the Borelli motor coach hooked me up and i was back out in the afternoon

i went out in the C group twice & then once in the D. i did not see the C7-Z06

i wish i had

right now i am in the process of trying to decide between a GT4 or a C7-Z06

like others have quoted -- in the press releases -- at the reveal in Detroit -- on the website -- i have often heard the claim "the most track capable Corvette ever"

GM ships the cars with information about how to align it for the track. much like the GT3 i think they are aware at least some folks are buying them to go to road courses.

i have never had a more trouble-free track car than my C6-Z06. i get it up in the air -- swap on my 2nd set of (stock) wheels w/ MPSCs -- drive to the track -- run like hell for as many laps & as many sessions as my physical body can handle in the heat. then i drive it home. i have had it to some extremely hot events -- including 2 times at the ultimate track car challenge combined NASA weekend where it was truly brutal in July

i experience no:

brake fade
overheating
troubles of any kind

others have complained about problems with the LS7. valve guides. whatever. i find it to be a revelation.

when my oil temp creeps up to high 200s during a NASA competition event where some other TT competitor in some unobtanium 4WD car on UTQG=40 slicks is edging me i will push extremely hard. i have had multiple 4 offs in my bone stock vette on street (MPSC) tires.

but the C6-Z06 has been bulletproof

i am really disappointed and saddened to read these early posts about overheating. i have been saddened to read magazine articles about pro shoes only getting a few laps out of a C7-Z06 prior to overheating.

my Z06 is the first american car i have ever owned -- and the first american car my extended family has ever owned (unless you count my dad's Sunbeam Tiger which has had a series of Ford race/crate motors).

i am rooting for Corvette/GM on this one. but i will probably have to either stay with the C6 for several years in the hopes that GM addresses these cooling issues. . .

or very very very (very) reluctantly return to porsche and go GT4 or the now ridiculously overpriced 997GT3 (due to the 991 coming out with 2 pedals and the first year having a minor issue with the rod bolts that resulted in the engines . . . um . . . catching on fire).

i truly hope that GM resolves these cooling issues. but having had several friends who tracked ZR1s (hard!) i was really surprised to see that GM was not sticking with naturally aspirated for the C7-Z06.

serious serious bummer.

DerStig

Your C6Z06 has been bulletproof. You know why? It's because it is a naturally aspirated car. Track cars are not meant to be forced induction. Period. This is also why all GT3s have been naturally aspirated. It's extremely difficult to cool down a 650 hp super charged engine. People who expect GM to come out with a trick and suddenly fix this is hardly mistaken.

ChrisN123

That's awesome news. I assume you were running bypass with those times, but those are still VERY VERY fast laps (faster than I expect to be). I'll be at Thill this Friday and hope to be able to report the same good news, but in the A8 on Super Sports. I'm going to run a session or two in "automatic" for the sake of science, but expect to paddle shift it normally (that's how I prefer to run DCT cars on track). It will be interesting to see the impact of manual shifting versus aggressive A8 shift logic (perhaps "illogic" when ambient temps are over 70 degs or whatever).

heavychevy

Like you were with your 1:25 Willow Springs lap time for the GT3?

You never showed the proof of that by the way. Where's the link?

Anyhow, the C6Z06 was hardly bulletproof. There are plenty with holes in the blocks and many guys on their 2nd, 3rd or 4th engine. And you could still overheat the transmissions fairly easily. The ZR1 however was much more reliable than the C6Z. GM can and will fix the problem, and you will once again be eating crow. Or at the very least acting like the crow doesn't exist. Like you are now.

Please stop acting like you know any of what you continue to harp on.

jwracing

I was going to purchase a Corvette Z06 A8 for a daily driver and would like to track it occasionally at Watkins Glen. (80- 90 ambient temperature) I passed on a GT3 that was going to cost me $140,000 after $3800 discount. I don't think the car makes a great daily driver, but it is unbelievable at speed. I had the car for two hours and drove it extremely hard with no issues whatsoever. I want more horsepower and preferred the acceleration of the turbo S, but the cornering of the GT3 was incredible. I can understand why motor trend reviewed the car as the best driver’s car for 2015. I don't want to spend money on radiators, supercharger upgrade (TVS 2300) and still have a car that overheats. I don't understand why a factory supercharged Mustang can run for 20 minutes session at Watkins Glan at high ambient temperatures and not heat soak. I also ran with several people that had Ford GT's with no issue. I have reached out to Callaway and Lingenfelter regarding their Corvette Z06 modifications, and they will not guarantee a road course session without overheating. I called Hennessy, and they recommended a naturally aspirated car for any road race applications. I’m dying to see the results of tracking the car in the summer months and hoping someone comes up with modifications to allow the car to be tracked successfully in high temperature areas of the country.

golfnutintib

SBC - to your knowledge what is 'overheating' temp for coolant? Your post implies 255 degrees F. Is that when the car would throw a code and/or dial back timing? I thought it would be alot higher...

Can we use water wetter etc etc to help this issue?

Any others with salient info please chime in as well...

golfnutintib

yes chris - we ran bypass

good luck on your track day

the regular mpss won't grip anything like the cups so times will be slower - the cups have sooo much grip i would stay on the gas with impunity through crests and turns i knew the car would catch and grip with full confidence

it is off point to this post... but the car is just a f-cking beast on track...omg it is something...you will really enjoy it...for the money it is just sooooooooooo much car

draega

New member here. Looking to purchase a new car, whatever it ends up being will probably be the nicest car I have ever owned. I am just trying get all the information I can on the different models I am looking at through the various forums.

I guess I feel kind of disappointed, if that's even possible considering I have not even purchased the car yet. I cannot imagine how some feel who have already spent their money. And I don't want to sound like a douche here. I felt like this was the car. American, bang for the buck, had it all.....looks, speed, functionality, all just too good to be true. Obviously when it is too good to be true then something is off....could the cooling issue be it?? Design flaw, engineering flaw, already pretty much admitted to both. I can tell you from experience that an aftermarket heat exchanger, radiator, thermostat, larger coolant tank, hoses, tunes, blah blah couldn't fix my gt500 cooling problem. I understand they are 2 different platforms but I do not have much faith that those same mods on the vette would fix the issue either. I think it will just make it a little longer before all the overheating will start to happen. Like maybe you get 10 laps instead of 6. I feel this is not a problem that can be fixed aftermarket, unless you are will to spend a lot of money, this is a problem that is fixed before it even hits the showrooms to be sold, but I hope I am wrong. And how much are you/I willing to spend?? $2k, $5k?? I am sure a lot of us here now how quickly the cost of mods can add up. Might as well just add that to the price of the car IMHO.

Where I am from, most normal summer days with humidity factored in, 86 is no problem. I would say most of the US is the same way. How they could have not been able to have seen this coming is beyond me. Even with limited R&D you think this would have been an easy one to spot. Well, you are ok if you have a manual and it is less than 86 degrees blahblah, but you are still pretty much screwed if you have an A8...... WHat?!?!?...I actually wanted an A8 lol....everyone tracks their cars in 60-70 degree weather all the time??........... I don't know what's going on anymore.

DerStig

Ok

ChrisN123

The jury is not in yet. The solution may be as simple as paddle shifting the A8 (or GM releasing a "back off the redline in light of hot weather" mode for the A8).

People like to bitch (me included/especially), but don't confuse specific criticism with a GENERAL conclusion that the car is not worth getting. Life is compromise.

jwracing

They already have an upgraded radiator for the Z06. I found it on the weapon X website.

golden2husky

This pretty much makes the most sense. Did the engineers know of the overheating issues? You bet they did. But any company has to balance out the costs to correct an issue and the likelihood of said problem affecting XXX amount of owners. I strongly suspect that they figured that most cars would not see the heavy track use. In the old days the bean counters ran the show at old GM and way too often the decision to cheap out affected far too many buyers or those buyers became unpaid beta testers. All that said though, considering the track focus of this car, an upgraded cooling system should have been made part of the Z07 package or as a stand alone option.

I got a good laugh at the Stig's comments about BMW design and cooling systems. For those who may not know, BMWs are notorious for crappy plastic expansion tanks that rupture without warning and cause catastrophic coolant loss, they have plastic water pump impellers that fail rendering the pump useless...all at about 50K mileage. Corvette Kool Aid? Really? Check out the land of Kool aid apologists at Bimmerfest...they make excuses for part failure and poor design on items that most don't even consider service-required parts.

DaveN007

My last three cars were Caymans. The only one that needed extra cooling was my last car, a 2012 Cayman R. I managed it by turning on the heater on a 100 degree day. Porsche makes a factory "third radiator" that plugs in the the center section of the car for about $500. (Standard in PDK car.) That is the permanent and easy fix. FWIW my best at Laguna in the R was 1:46 on Sport Cups. 2:08 at Thunderhill on a 100 degree day. Ideally there will be a factory fix. Hopefully there is at least a reasonable set of best practices for managing temps. This is ultimately my fault. I mocked the Tesla Model S for going into limp mode.

3 Z06ZR1

That's the way it is since I remember. Unless your car has the electronic latch pull down like my 2009 ZR1. Slamming the hatch to close is fool hardy. Can tell you know nothing much about Corvette's but you still hang around.

Snorman

This is the smartest thing you've posted here all week.
S.

Snorman

A plastic nipple on the plastic expansion tank on my buddy's M3 broke at Sebring and he did a 360 coming out of turn 16, drenching the track with coolant.
S.

SBC_and_a_stick

This is precisely why I opened up a thread to find out max operating temperatures. One fellow member received his Helms manual and posted the max coolant temp:

"Coolant Over Temp
The IPC illuminates the COOLANT OVER TEMP indicator in the message centre when the following occurs:

The PCM detects that the engine coolant temperature exceeds 124C (256F). The IPC receives a class 2 message from the PCM indicating high coolant temperature.

The IPC will also illuminate the CHECK GAGES indicator and a chime sounds when this condition occurs."

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1589270862

Water Wetter will do some of the work, not much compared to simply increasing the water/coolant ratio. Unfortunately GM already used the trick and C7s come with 60/40 water/coolant mix from the factory unlike say C6s which came with a more traditional 50/50 mix.

05dsom

I'd be interested in hearing about this discount!

AORoads