View Poll Results: Which one do you think will win R&T's PCOTY?
Voters: 266. You may not vote on this poll
Road & Track - Performance Car of the Year... C7 Z is in the lineup
11-11-2015, 08:30 PM
#161
The Viper ACR is a car produced expressly for the track and was running DOT approved competition tires that are virtually slicks and it would be suicide to drive those in the rain. The Z06 is a car that tries
to be everything to everyone and was running high-performance STREET tires that cannot be expected to produce the same level of performance as the Kumhos. That the Corvette produced a lap time
so close to the Viper, even saddled with all its creature comfort amenities and tires that had to be an advantage to the Viper, must be viewed as a moral victory for the Vette.
I don't see how the Viper crowd can look at this as a great victory. A tenth of a second? But if I win the lottery, I would probably grab one of each.
to be everything to everyone and was running high-performance STREET tires that cannot be expected to produce the same level of performance as the Kumhos. That the Corvette produced a lap time
so close to the Viper, even saddled with all its creature comfort amenities and tires that had to be an advantage to the Viper, must be viewed as a moral victory for the Vette.
I don't see how the Viper crowd can look at this as a great victory. A tenth of a second? But if I win the lottery, I would probably grab one of each.
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Hulk5150 (11-12-2015)
11-11-2015, 08:55 PM
#162
Gasoline Addict
Pretty impressive that the cheapest car won, especially is this company. Kudos to Ford for putting a race engine in a off the shelf car, and giving it a deserving chassis. Wonder how it compares to the Z28... a special car in its own way.
The Z06 is great on the track, not a surprise. What did surprise me is that it wasn't very good on tight, twisty back roads. The fact that it almost kept pace with the ACR is special and signifies the amount of R&D Tadge's groups had spent on developing the car. Too bad the LT4 is not as stellar as it could have been.
Also surprised that the GT4 wasn't scored higher, after reading a lot about it, I thought it was going to be in the top two.
The Viper is in a different league and I am pretty sure that there will never again be another race car for the street like it. Even the GT3RS feels pedestrian next to it.
Man, we live in some of the best times; being a gearhead nowadays is unlike ever in the past. In the era of nonsense EPA regulations, to have cars of this caliber is immensely satisfying. I'd most likely own one of each, if I had the resources. And a GTR, a GT3, a Z28 to boot. All hail year 2015... one of the best years in motoring history!
The Z06 is great on the track, not a surprise. What did surprise me is that it wasn't very good on tight, twisty back roads. The fact that it almost kept pace with the ACR is special and signifies the amount of R&D Tadge's groups had spent on developing the car. Too bad the LT4 is not as stellar as it could have been.
Also surprised that the GT4 wasn't scored higher, after reading a lot about it, I thought it was going to be in the top two.
The Viper is in a different league and I am pretty sure that there will never again be another race car for the street like it. Even the GT3RS feels pedestrian next to it.
Man, we live in some of the best times; being a gearhead nowadays is unlike ever in the past. In the era of nonsense EPA regulations, to have cars of this caliber is immensely satisfying. I'd most likely own one of each, if I had the resources. And a GTR, a GT3, a Z28 to boot. All hail year 2015... one of the best years in motoring history!
Last edited by tytek; 11-11-2015 at 08:56 PM.
11-11-2015, 09:48 PM
#163
Melting Slicks
As all know this was the most technologically advanced Z06 every made and was rushed to production. There have been many German and like 2-500,000 supercars that had worse issues on a first year redesign. I am confident Corvette engineers will address the engine overheating and other issues in it's second year of production. 
11-11-2015, 10:25 PM
#164
Le Mans Master
I think it would highly benefit Hearst Publications, who owns both Car and Driver and Road and Track, to hire a gun like Motor Trend has with Randy. None of the drivers at C&D or R&T are slouches, per se. But none of them (Webster included, who's pretty damned good), are race driver caliber.
The results would be far more consistent across the cars that are tested by each magazine.
Of course, the flip side of that is: what C&D and R&T do is show how approachable a given car is to an "everyman" track driver. And there's something to be said for that, too. Very few of us have the skills to be pro drivers, even though there are some delusional folks amongst us.
The results would be far more consistent across the cars that are tested by each magazine.
Of course, the flip side of that is: what C&D and R&T do is show how approachable a given car is to an "everyman" track driver. And there's something to be said for that, too. Very few of us have the skills to be pro drivers, even though there are some delusional folks amongst us.
Michael
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Deuuuce (11-11-2015)
11-11-2015, 11:12 PM
#165
AMG GT-S beats them all in straight line acceleration. It is the fastest car 0-30, 0-60, 0-100 and second fastest 0-150 mph. It beats the Z06 and ACR and all the others up to 110 mph. It beats them all in the 1/4 mile with an 11.3. Who would have thought that. Ferrari was not tested.
The Viper and Z06 can definitely equal the 60ft time, if not quicker than an AMG GT S with an experienced driver. The 0-30mph time is a close indicator. The AMG won't improve if at all due to the consistency of the DCT transmission. The Viper has a higher trap speed and there is no doubt the Z06 has more in it with a better driver.
The 488 will smoke them all, capable of trap speeds deep in the 130s and mid 10s ala the 650S.
Your point isn't clear. I read the previous post like you were talking up Chris Winkler, and seemed to downplay Jim Mero. Both are equally talented, both have the same jobs at their respective companies. Both hold company records, Mero has all of GM's Nurburgring and VIR records.
How come nobody talks about Road Atlanta? Over 3 seconds ahead, with engineer Winkler driving the ACR, vs Corvette Team racer Milner driving the Z07? Engineer beating an actual pro, by 3 seconds, is quite impressive.
How come nobody talks about Road Atlanta? Over 3 seconds ahead, with engineer Winkler driving the ACR, vs Corvette Team racer Milner driving the Z07? Engineer beating an actual pro, by 3 seconds, is quite impressive.
In fact, both Mero and Winkler being so highly skilled make the best times from each, along with Pobst's times, valid comparisons.
The Viper ACR is a car produced expressly for the track and was running DOT approved competition tires that are virtually slicks and it would be suicide to drive those in the rain. The Z06 is a car that tries
to be everything to everyone and was running high-performance STREET tires that cannot be expected to produce the same level of performance as the Kumhos. That the Corvette produced a lap time
so close to the Viper, even saddled with all its creature comfort amenities and tires that had to be an advantage to the Viper, must be viewed as a moral victory for the Vette.
I don't see how the Viper crowd can look at this as a great victory. A tenth of a second? But if I win the lottery, I would probably grab one of each.
to be everything to everyone and was running high-performance STREET tires that cannot be expected to produce the same level of performance as the Kumhos. That the Corvette produced a lap time
so close to the Viper, even saddled with all its creature comfort amenities and tires that had to be an advantage to the Viper, must be viewed as a moral victory for the Vette.
I don't see how the Viper crowd can look at this as a great victory. A tenth of a second? But if I win the lottery, I would probably grab one of each.
Tires will always be a point of contention, just like the giant ones on the Z28 allowing to perform like a GT3.
It would be great to see the same brand and model tire on each car, but that isn't how they are delivered.
I agree Randy's input is far above the writers when it comes to overall driving performance. For every car I have driven that Randy has driven, I have found his comments to be right on the money. Randy can spot things in a few turns that would take days, weeks, or even months for non-pros to find. The writers input is good for overall car assessment, but nothing beats a pro when it comes down to how the car performs and how that performance compares to other cars. Randy specializes in driving. The writers specialize in writing. It works.
Michael
Michael
11-11-2015, 11:36 PM
#166
Melting Slicks
This test was run on a slight variation of the Grand Max Straight Course of 2.87 miles. I calculated the times at a slightly revised 2.91 miles or 15,364.8 feet for the differentials between the ACR, ZO6, 488 and the GT4 from Porsche since the GT4 and the ZO6 are close in Price. The ZO6 was behind the ACR by 14.29 feet at the end of the lap. The 488 was 116.165 feet behind the ACR and the GT4 was 700.092 feet behind the ACR. Essentially the ACR and the ZO6 are almost dead even with the Ferrari 488 not that far behind. The GT4 is a mere speck in the rear view mirror of both the ACR and the ZO6. I'm surprised the 488 wasn't closer !!
11-12-2015, 05:35 AM
#169
The R&T driver, Larry Webster only did a 1:58.14 in the Viper ACR for PCOTY at the NCM track. Here is a video of a guy in a 2014 Viper T/A with even a passenger on board who does a 1:57.80 and then a 1:57.58 while chasing the 2016 ACR.
Would be nice to see a pro like Randy Pobst do the times.
Would be nice to see a pro like Randy Pobst do the times.
11-12-2015, 06:23 AM
#170
The R&T driver, Larry Webster only did a 1:58.14 in the Viper ACR for PCOTY at the NCM track. Here is a video of a guy in a 2014 Viper T/A with even a passenger on board who does a 1:57.80 and then a 1:57.58 while chasing the 2016 ACR. Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Avnnn1Qg 2-g Would be nice to see a pro like Randy Pobst do the times.
11-12-2015, 07:08 AM
#171
Mero is GM's engineer and although not paid by a racing team, both Mero and Winkler have the skill and confidence of pro skilled driver and both with ton of experience.
11-12-2015, 07:50 AM
#172
The Viper ACR is a car produced expressly for the track and was running DOT approved competition tires that are virtually slicks and it would be suicide to drive those in the rain. The Z06 is a car that tries
to be everything to everyone and was running high-performance STREET tires that cannot be expected to produce the same level of performance as the Kumhos. That the Corvette produced a lap time
so close to the Viper, even saddled with all its creature comfort amenities and tires that had to be an advantage to the Viper, must be viewed as a moral victory for the Vette.
I don't see how the Viper crowd can look at this as a great victory. A tenth of a second? But if I win the lottery, I would probably grab one of each.
to be everything to everyone and was running high-performance STREET tires that cannot be expected to produce the same level of performance as the Kumhos. That the Corvette produced a lap time
so close to the Viper, even saddled with all its creature comfort amenities and tires that had to be an advantage to the Viper, must be viewed as a moral victory for the Vette.
I don't see how the Viper crowd can look at this as a great victory. A tenth of a second? But if I win the lottery, I would probably grab one of each.
All these R comps on the Z, ACR, 488, GT3RS, ect are DOT approved and classed as comp tires. The Sport cup 2s on the Z have decent tread grooves and are also runflats.
The ACR Kumho Ecsta tires according to SRT are 1.5 seconds FASTER than even competition race slicks. So them be some very special tires
would be interesting to see them on a Z06 for comparison.
Last edited by GP1224; 11-12-2015 at 08:09 AM.
11-12-2015, 07:59 AM
#173
Safety Car
Remember when Viper guys were saying the exact same thing about the Z07 coming with the badass Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires? Those are better than the Pirelli Corsa that come on the TA. Even the Porsche 918 runs the Michelin.
My friend Josh put over 5,000 highway miles on those Kuhmos in the last 2 weeks. Drove the ACR Extreme from Detroit to Las Vegas, and back. Through rain and snow in CO. Pics on his Instagram illustrate this well. https://www.instagram.com/welderassassin/
They clearly work on the street, too. Not the best, but functional. I've driven the Sport Cups on the street, in the rain, and they are functional too - but the truth is I'd want neither tire for rainy day weather.
My friend Josh put over 5,000 highway miles on those Kuhmos in the last 2 weeks. Drove the ACR Extreme from Detroit to Las Vegas, and back. Through rain and snow in CO. Pics on his Instagram illustrate this well. https://www.instagram.com/welderassassin/
They clearly work on the street, too. Not the best, but functional. I've driven the Sport Cups on the street, in the rain, and they are functional too - but the truth is I'd want neither tire for rainy day weather.
11-12-2015, 08:05 AM
#174
Safety Car
Vid of ACR in the rain. Read comments.
https://www.instagram.com/p/9e7A13LGVA/
ACR in the desert, by Grand Canyon. Read comments.
https://www.instagram.com/p/9kDkktrGRh/
ACR in snow. Read comments.
https://www.instagram.com/p/91VrI-rGVF/
ACR in more rain. You get the point.
https://www.instagram.com/p/94s1wrrGbN/
5,000 miles in a week. All forms of weather here, on those Kumho tires.
https://www.instagram.com/p/9e7A13LGVA/
ACR in the desert, by Grand Canyon. Read comments.
https://www.instagram.com/p/9kDkktrGRh/
ACR in snow. Read comments.
https://www.instagram.com/p/91VrI-rGVF/
ACR in more rain. You get the point.
https://www.instagram.com/p/94s1wrrGbN/
5,000 miles in a week. All forms of weather here, on those Kumho tires.
11-12-2015, 09:03 AM
#176
Team Owner
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Warning to all.....
Guys,
If this childish bickering does not stop, again-the thread will be shut down and people will be getting vacations from CorvetteForum.
It's incredibly sad to see grown men act like children and resort to name calling one another. Besides, THIS IS AGAINST FORUM RULES.
Grow up or you'll be banned!
If this childish bickering does not stop, again-the thread will be shut down and people will be getting vacations from CorvetteForum.
It's incredibly sad to see grown men act like children and resort to name calling one another. Besides, THIS IS AGAINST FORUM RULES.
Grow up or you'll be banned!
11-12-2015, 10:26 AM
#177
Well he's a hotshoe and chassis engineer employed by a vehicle manufacturer to turn hot laps, he's a Pro. That doesn't mean he has to have podium finishes, it means he's paid to drive for a living.
He holds 11 of the 13 lap records and in '99 & '00 the same name in Detroit had SCCA Driver of the Year awards in that region.
I would say he's a pro like Mero.
He holds 11 of the 13 lap records and in '99 & '00 the same name in Detroit had SCCA Driver of the Year awards in that region.
I would say he's a pro like Mero.
11-12-2015, 11:36 AM
#178
Le Mans Master
The R&T driver, Larry Webster only did a 1:58.14 in the Viper ACR for PCOTY at the NCM track. Here is a video of a guy in a 2014 Viper T/A with even a passenger on board who does a 1:57.80 and then a 1:57.58 while chasing the 2016 ACR.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=Avnnn1Qg2-g
Would be nice to see a pro like Randy Pobst do the times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=Avnnn1Qg2-g
Would be nice to see a pro like Randy Pobst do the times.
Michael
11-12-2015, 12:29 PM
#179
Were we bickering? I thought we were having a discussion.
Tires make a huge difference and it's always a factor in the equation.
My experience with Kumhos is that they were an alternative to Hoosiers and on some surfaces were preferable to the Indiana tires. But they were slicks for all intents and not suitable for daily drivers.
Maybe these tires on the Viper have more tread on them than what I'm familiar with.
I wasn't trying to imply that Viper was cheating or that the Corvette had an excuse. I was trying to point out that the Corvette continues to impress. If I were a Viper engineer and had a hand in developing
the ACR and I saw the results of this test, I think I would be really distressed because they threw just about everything they could possibly throw at the ACR to make it a track terror, and then they just barely squeak out a win.
As for the GT350 winning outright, the fastest car seldom wins, so it's really just based on which car is most fun.
Tires make a huge difference and it's always a factor in the equation.
My experience with Kumhos is that they were an alternative to Hoosiers and on some surfaces were preferable to the Indiana tires. But they were slicks for all intents and not suitable for daily drivers.
Maybe these tires on the Viper have more tread on them than what I'm familiar with.
I wasn't trying to imply that Viper was cheating or that the Corvette had an excuse. I was trying to point out that the Corvette continues to impress. If I were a Viper engineer and had a hand in developing
the ACR and I saw the results of this test, I think I would be really distressed because they threw just about everything they could possibly throw at the ACR to make it a track terror, and then they just barely squeak out a win.
As for the GT350 winning outright, the fastest car seldom wins, so it's really just based on which car is most fun.
11-12-2015, 12:57 PM
#180
Guys,
If this childish bickering does not stop, again-the thread will be shut down and people will be getting vacations from CorvetteForum.
It's incredibly sad to see grown men act like children and resort to name calling one another. Besides, THIS IS AGAINST FORUM RULES.
Grow up or you'll be banned!
If this childish bickering does not stop, again-the thread will be shut down and people will be getting vacations from CorvetteForum.
It's incredibly sad to see grown men act like children and resort to name calling one another. Besides, THIS IS AGAINST FORUM RULES.
Grow up or you'll be banned!
But are the ACR and Z06 really competing? Their missions are different, no?
Were we bickering? I thought we were having a discussion.
I wasn't trying to imply that Viper was cheating or that the Corvette had an excuse. I was trying to point out that the Corvette continues to impress. If I were a Viper engineer and had a hand in developing
the ACR and I saw the results of this test, I think I would be really distressed because they threw just about everything they could possibly throw at the ACR to make it a track terror, and then they just barely squeak out a win.
As for the GT350 winning outright, the fastest car seldom wins, so it's really just based on which car is most fun.
I wasn't trying to imply that Viper was cheating or that the Corvette had an excuse. I was trying to point out that the Corvette continues to impress. If I were a Viper engineer and had a hand in developing
the ACR and I saw the results of this test, I think I would be really distressed because they threw just about everything they could possibly throw at the ACR to make it a track terror, and then they just barely squeak out a win.
As for the GT350 winning outright, the fastest car seldom wins, so it's really just based on which car is most fun.