Road & Track PCOTY
10-25-2015, 09:27 AM
#81
Burning Brakes
Nice thread!
Has anyone here had both a C6Z and a C7Z? Mine is a 2013 427 vert, which I like very much, but I sometimes worry about the heads. I'm asking to see if anyone who has a C7Z, and uses it as a road trip car, worries about overheating or other engine issues.
Thanks.
Has anyone here had both a C6Z and a C7Z? Mine is a 2013 427 vert, which I like very much, but I sometimes worry about the heads. I'm asking to see if anyone who has a C7Z, and uses it as a road trip car, worries about overheating or other engine issues.
Thanks.
10-25-2015, 10:12 AM
#82
Race Director
If F/C was selling 2,000 Vipers a year, do you think they would still go on hiatus in 2017? The Viper, because of it's nature, will never sell in large numbers, but it has to be sustainable, from a business case standpoint. The "hiatus" the cars have taken over the years were because of slow to non-existent sales, no other reason. This myth (and it is a myth) that the Viper's purpose in life is to be incredibly rare is something Viper fans have convinced themselves of, only. This has NOTHING to do with Corvette, it's a different car selling to a different market (for the most part). If the Viper sold 2,000 units a year consistently, there would NEVER have been ANY hiatus.
Jimmy
PS. I am pulling the 2000 units a year out of the air, seems like a good number (I imagine F/C would ECSTATIC with 2,000 Vipers a year). I don't know what the number is to make the Viper a viable business proposition so please don't jump me. We all know that the current level is NOT sustainable.
10-25-2015, 10:44 AM
#83
Banned Scam/Spammer
Seriously?
If F/C was selling 2,000 Vipers a year, do you think they would still go on hiatus in 2017? The Viper, because of it's nature, will never sell in large numbers, but it has to be sustainable, from a business case standpoint. The "hiatus" the cars have taken over the years were because of slow to non-existent sales, no other reason. This myth (and it is a myth) that the Viper's purpose in life is to be incredibly rare is something Viper fans have convinced themselves of, only. This has NOTHING to do with Corvette, it's a different car selling to a different market (for the most part). If the Viper sold 2,000 units a year consistently, there would NEVER have been ANY hiatus.
Jimmy
PS. I am pulling the 2000 units a year out of the air, seems like a good number (I imagine F/C would ECSTATIC with 2,000 Vipers a year). I don't know what the number is to make the Viper a viable business proposition so please don't jump me. We all know that the current level is NOT sustainable.
If F/C was selling 2,000 Vipers a year, do you think they would still go on hiatus in 2017? The Viper, because of it's nature, will never sell in large numbers, but it has to be sustainable, from a business case standpoint. The "hiatus" the cars have taken over the years were because of slow to non-existent sales, no other reason. This myth (and it is a myth) that the Viper's purpose in life is to be incredibly rare is something Viper fans have convinced themselves of, only. This has NOTHING to do with Corvette, it's a different car selling to a different market (for the most part). If the Viper sold 2,000 units a year consistently, there would NEVER have been ANY hiatus.
Jimmy
PS. I am pulling the 2000 units a year out of the air, seems like a good number (I imagine F/C would ECSTATIC with 2,000 Vipers a year). I don't know what the number is to make the Viper a viable business proposition so please don't jump me. We all know that the current level is NOT sustainable.
10-25-2015, 11:15 AM
#84
Road and Track is evaluating 8 cars for their performance capabilities within R&T's own criteria. I don't think that criteria includes corporate financials or sales figures. It's all about how each car performs against the competition. The reasons for buying a car are as varied as there are individuals. WRT PCOTY I am personally only interested in the track time comparisons and the strengths and weaknesses (with respect to track performance) that are identified. Others may be looking for different criteria based on personal preferences or intended use of the vehicle, and that's perfectly fine. It's still America! 
Pappy
Pappy
10-25-2015, 11:29 AM
#85
Seriously?
If F/C was selling 2,000 Vipers a year, do you think they would still go on hiatus in 2017? The Viper, because of it's nature, will never sell in large numbers, but it has to be sustainable, from a business case standpoint. The "hiatus" the cars have taken over the years were because of slow to non-existent sales, no other reason. This myth (and it is a myth) that the Viper's purpose in life is to be incredibly rare is something Viper fans have convinced themselves of, only. This has NOTHING to do with Corvette, it's a different car selling to a different market (for the most part). If the Viper sold 2,000 units a year consistently, there would NEVER have been ANY hiatus.
Jimmy
PS. I am pulling the 2000 units a year out of the air, seems like a good number (I imagine F/C would ECSTATIC with 2,000 Vipers a year). I don't know what the number is to make the Viper a viable business proposition so please don't jump me. We all know that the current level is NOT sustainable.
If F/C was selling 2,000 Vipers a year, do you think they would still go on hiatus in 2017? The Viper, because of it's nature, will never sell in large numbers, but it has to be sustainable, from a business case standpoint. The "hiatus" the cars have taken over the years were because of slow to non-existent sales, no other reason. This myth (and it is a myth) that the Viper's purpose in life is to be incredibly rare is something Viper fans have convinced themselves of, only. This has NOTHING to do with Corvette, it's a different car selling to a different market (for the most part). If the Viper sold 2,000 units a year consistently, there would NEVER have been ANY hiatus.
Jimmy
PS. I am pulling the 2000 units a year out of the air, seems like a good number (I imagine F/C would ECSTATIC with 2,000 Vipers a year). I don't know what the number is to make the Viper a viable business proposition so please don't jump me. We all know that the current level is NOT sustainable.
If they could.... they WOULD!! Sales are in the 500s a year. SRT aimed for 2000 a year with the Gen V but that failed terribly leaving around 600 Vipers sitting on lots not moving and causing production to stop for months.That being said the Viper is a great car in its own right, and should sell way more.
Ferrari for example sell like crazy and yet Ferrari decided to pull BACK on production. They had that option to make... vs SRT that has NO choice to do that being there is no demand and never really has been and even though SRT wanted to and tried with the Gen V the sales are not there even with a much better car overall vs last Gens.
I can understand if SRT decide to pull the plug again till another time. Either way if you can grab an ACR right now its the real deal track monster street legal.
Last edited by GP1224; 10-25-2015 at 11:36 AM.
10-25-2015, 11:32 AM
#86
Scraping the splitter.
Actually what he should have said is that the reason the Viper is going away, if it actually does is because people seem to be shying away from an actual "Driver's Car" versus a car that drives them. Add in the fact that the typical/majority of Viper drivers/owners tracks his car while the typical/majority of Corvette drivers/owners spends his time waxing his car.
A good example are the posts in the Z06 forum asking people which wax to use.
The Z is a performance car and yet the majority will probably never exceed 60 mph or venture out of the garage.
Now those who bought their "sports" car and use them on the track will know what I am talking about.
A good example are the posts in the Z06 forum asking people which wax to use.
The Z is a performance car and yet the majority will probably never exceed 60 mph or venture out of the garage. Now those who bought their "sports" car and use them on the track will know what I am talking about.
It's comical that the majority of people who make broad, unsubstantiated statements like this usually have pretty much zero track experience other than a driving school or two, or maybe parade laps during an NCM event.
S.
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REDZED2 (10-30-2015)
10-25-2015, 11:41 AM
#87
Drove her from Miami to Las Vegas to Tahoe to San Francisco back to Vegas. 2015 Z06/07 A8. No problems at all.
Nice thread!
Has anyone here had both a C6Z and a C7Z? Mine is a 2013 427 vert, which I like very much, but I sometimes worry about the heads. I'm asking to see if anyone who has a C7Z, and uses it as a road trip car, worries about overheating or other engine issues.
Thanks.
Has anyone here had both a C6Z and a C7Z? Mine is a 2013 427 vert, which I like very much, but I sometimes worry about the heads. I'm asking to see if anyone who has a C7Z, and uses it as a road trip car, worries about overheating or other engine issues.
Thanks.
The following users liked this post:
hhntr111 (10-26-2015)
The following users liked this post:
hhntr111 (10-26-2015)
10-25-2015, 12:35 PM
#89
(I have correctly spelling for a proper Trump-like pronunciation.)
10-25-2015, 01:40 PM
#90
Race Director
If we went with your explanation then there would never have been a reason to continue the viper past the first generation because sales were so low, and in fact, a quick search has shown that there have only been 3 years where sales were above 2000 units. Therefore, that has to tell us that the viper is probably not around to make money for Dodge. It is just to be a halo car. Sure, they would love to sell more, but I do not think that is why they make the car.
Jimmy
10-25-2015, 03:08 PM
#91
Le Mans Master
Z06 receives another mediocre writeup and the thread has become a Viper bash fest - ironically the one car that was actually the most stout in the same test.
"only one of our eight cars that didn't appear at least occasionally troubled by the demands of our regimen was the Viper ACR."
If everyone brings up Porsche too all the Z06 problems will go away. Just focus on other brands nothing to see here.
"only one of our eight cars that didn't appear at least occasionally troubled by the demands of our regimen was the Viper ACR."
If everyone brings up Porsche too all the Z06 problems will go away. Just focus on other brands nothing to see here.
10-25-2015, 04:57 PM
#92
Le Mans Master
Hilarious! Viper owners /fans are just too sensitive. This is a thread about a Corvette, then someone posts pix of the Viper (beautiful car in its own right, no hate from me), which direction do you expect the thread to go? And please spare the boast that Vipers are mostly tracked. Hahaha, there are a few hardcore track rats of course, here on CF too, but way many more are very concerned about damaging the paint, keeping the mileage low, only taking it out on the weekend, don't drive it in bad weather,.... Sounds familiar? Yep, many Z owners are like that too. Ain't nothing wrong with it. The car, Z or Viper, is just a toy to many people. Right now, Z06s are desirable (despite the heat issue), more people are buying and driving them. Activities on the 3 Viper forums are pretty slow, as barely anyone khows or cares about the car. And what does Dodge do to stir up interest? Yep, instead of making what the BUYING PUBLIC wants (automatic and convertible), it released another even less street friendly and more hard core ACR. Guess Dodge isn't interested in making $$$$.
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10-25-2015, 05:00 PM
#93
Z06 receives another mediocre writeup and the thread has become a Viper bash fest - ironically the one car that was actually the most stout in the same test.
"only one of our eight cars that didn't appear at least occasionally troubled by the demands of our regimen was the Viper ACR."
If everyone brings up Porsche too all the Z06 problems will go away. Just focus on other brands nothing to see here.
"only one of our eight cars that didn't appear at least occasionally troubled by the demands of our regimen was the Viper ACR."
If everyone brings up Porsche too all the Z06 problems will go away. Just focus on other brands nothing to see here.
10-25-2015, 05:03 PM
#94
Hilarious! Viper owners /fans are just too sensitive. This is a thread about a Corvette, then someone posts pix of the Viper (beautiful car in its own right, no hate from me), which direction do you expect the thread to go? And please spare the boast that Vipers are mostly tracked. Hahaha, there are a few hardcore track rats of course, here on CF too, but way many more are very concerned about damaging the paint, keeping the mileage low, only taking it out on the weekend, don't drive it in bad weather,.... Sounds familiar? Yep, many Z owners are like that too. Ain't nothing wrong with it. The car, Z or Viper, is just a toy to many people. Right now, Z06s are desirable (despite the heat issue), more people are buying and driving them. Activities on the 3 Viper forums are pretty slow, as barely anyone khows or cares about the car. And what does Dodge do to stir up interest? Yep, instead of making what the BUYING PUBLIC wants (automatic and convertible), it released another even less street friendly and more hard core ACR. Guess Dodge isn't interested in making $$$$.
Last edited by GP1224; 10-25-2015 at 05:12 PM.
10-25-2015, 06:07 PM
#95
Race Director
Z06 receives another mediocre writeup and the thread has become a Viper bash fest - ironically the one car that was actually the most stout in the same test.
"only one of our eight cars that didn't appear at least occasionally troubled by the demands of our regimen was the Viper ACR."
If everyone brings up Porsche too all the Z06 problems will go away. Just focus on other brands nothing to see here.
"only one of our eight cars that didn't appear at least occasionally troubled by the demands of our regimen was the Viper ACR."
If everyone brings up Porsche too all the Z06 problems will go away. Just focus on other brands nothing to see here.
Then, a Viper fan made the ridiculous (and totally false) comment that the majority of Viper owners track their cars, and implied that all Corvette owners do is wax their cars and drove 60MPH.
That the Z06 has cooling problems on the track is hardly new news. I hope GM will address this so we can go back to orange peel threads, which are so much more fun.
Jimmy
10-25-2015, 07:59 PM
#96
Gm has no reason to fix the issue. The owners continue to go to radical lengths to make excuses for them, just as they have over the LS7'S dropped value issues.
The fact is until the fanboys turn on GM and buyers start hold them accountable for the cars obvious and glaring defects then they will continue to sell a flawed product.
The fact is until the fanboys turn on GM and buyers start hold them accountable for the cars obvious and glaring defects then they will continue to sell a flawed product.
10-26-2015, 01:24 PM
#97
Advanced
Don't you know that the engine is supposed to overheat and explode and the transmission refuse to go into gear and fall apart before you got out of Dade County?
The least you could do is complain about the orange peel paint.
You must be a dupe of GM or a troll because everybody knows that this forum is for people who don't own a Z06 to trash it!
Last edited by elroth; 10-26-2015 at 01:44 PM.
10-26-2015, 01:36 PM
#98
Advanced
Gm has no reason to fix the issue. The owners continue to go to radical lengths to make excuses for them, just as they have over the LS7'S dropped value issues.
The fact is until the fanboys turn on GM and buyers start hold them accountable for the cars obvious and glaring defects then they will continue to sell a flawed product.
The fact is until the fanboys turn on GM and buyers start hold them accountable for the cars obvious and glaring defects then they will continue to sell a flawed product.
Why spend 100K when you can come on this forum for free and bash the car and the 99.9% of the people including me who own one and have no problems ("fanboys").
Of course you'll never get to drive this world class super car that runs with the 911 Turbo S among other cars but you can always come on this forum and beat up on it.
Last edited by elroth; 10-26-2015 at 01:45 PM.
10-26-2015, 01:48 PM
#99
Burning Brakes
Absolutely no one in this thread is bashing the Viper. One person commented on an optional paint that looked like it was supposed to (the poster didn't know that).
Then, a Viper fan made the ridiculous (and totally false) comment that the majority of Viper owners track their cars, and implied that all Corvette owners do is wax their cars and drove 60MPH.
That the Z06 has cooling problems on the track is hardly new news. I hope GM will address this so we can go back to orange peel threads, which are so much more fun.
Jimmy
Then, a Viper fan made the ridiculous (and totally false) comment that the majority of Viper owners track their cars, and implied that all Corvette owners do is wax their cars and drove 60MPH.
That the Z06 has cooling problems on the track is hardly new news. I hope GM will address this so we can go back to orange peel threads, which are so much more fun.
Jimmy
10-26-2015, 10:11 PM
#100
Drifting
Okay, so my local Dodge dealer got in a new Viper ACR. (Silver, and black/red stripe) Which are my favorite colors, with a black interior with red stitching. (This is exactly how I was going to option my built Z, until I fell in love with Laguna Blue.) It also had an awesome suede checked flag door print.
Well, this car is absolutely stunning. It is gorgeous, and had I seen this it would have certainly been in a position to take me away from the Z. EXCEPT they were asking $150k for it. That is another half of a corvette z06 3lz z07 package... Or a corvette z07 and a Mercedes E class.
Or any number of Exotics....
As per the paint, EVERYONE at the dealership was staring at my vette next to that blue viper... No less than two of the sales people said... Wow, your blue looks so much better than our viper. (ORANGE PEEL AND ALL!) Granted I will concede that the quality of the paint finish was much better on the viper.
I will also, say that the interior was much nicer on the vette, than either viper. As were the creature comforts.
I have no doubt that the viper ACR is an ABSOLUTE machine on the track. In fact, one of the people at the dealership was talking about how amazing it was, and he even mentioned that a Z was on the track, and he (The viper) was posting better times. Who knows if that is true. BUT, with that said, he also conceded (without my mentioning it) that he would much rather drive the vette to the track. Or just about anywhere other than on the track. And to that point, who knows how good of a driver the Z guy was. Its tough to say, which car is better. Until a few inevitable side by sides. But for me personally. Having been in both, I am very pleased with my Z purchase. They are offering to let me take the Viper for a spin, and I may just do that. But I doubt it will take me away from the corvette.
Well, this car is absolutely stunning. It is gorgeous, and had I seen this it would have certainly been in a position to take me away from the Z. EXCEPT they were asking $150k for it. That is another half of a corvette z06 3lz z07 package... Or a corvette z07 and a Mercedes E class.
Or any number of Exotics....
As per the paint, EVERYONE at the dealership was staring at my vette next to that blue viper... No less than two of the sales people said... Wow, your blue looks so much better than our viper. (ORANGE PEEL AND ALL!) Granted I will concede that the quality of the paint finish was much better on the viper.
I will also, say that the interior was much nicer on the vette, than either viper. As were the creature comforts.
I have no doubt that the viper ACR is an ABSOLUTE machine on the track. In fact, one of the people at the dealership was talking about how amazing it was, and he even mentioned that a Z was on the track, and he (The viper) was posting better times. Who knows if that is true. BUT, with that said, he also conceded (without my mentioning it) that he would much rather drive the vette to the track. Or just about anywhere other than on the track. And to that point, who knows how good of a driver the Z guy was. Its tough to say, which car is better. Until a few inevitable side by sides. But for me personally. Having been in both, I am very pleased with my Z purchase. They are offering to let me take the Viper for a spin, and I may just do that. But I doubt it will take me away from the corvette.