eddie08z06

Hello,

I was wondering if the dealer can see if the car has been tuned even after flashed back to stock if the ever is a issue?

If so could I buy a new ecu now and just modify that one and save my original just in case?

Thank you for the help.

Kind Regards,

Eddie G.

KKreme15

Yes, if it has been flashed back to stock, there is a flash counter.

Dan.S

What if it Has multiple dealer ref lashes for issues... How would they know by the flash counter then if it's aftermarket work.

Assuming by "flash counter" you literally mean it counts the amount of ECU flashes and not what or who...

RajeeK

Hmmm....seems questionable. One could just flash the flash counter then.

Babaron

When the ECU leaves the factory, it has a certain number attached to it. Every time it is accessed, the number changes. When the ECU is accessed by a dealer, The dealer records the new number before releasing the car and then uploads that new number to GM for its records.
If the car is presented for warranty service on the drivetrain, the dealer first checks the number on the ECU to make sure it matches the number in GM's records. If the numbers do not match, the engine is considered tampered with and no warranty coverage is provided .

The ECU also records time of service and any gaps in service. If it is taken out of service because the new ECU is used, the old ECU will show that gap.

Rguy271

Where did you get this info?

With what you're saying, any time I get a local independent shop to do work my Warranty is void if they access the ECU which wouldnt fly.

Babaron

That is correct, unless the dealer is certified and/or has a link to GM. In order for the number not to match, the mechanic would have had to access the ECU.

Now if the numbers don't match, and the dealer calls you out on it, you may still have coverage if you can show what work was done and by whom. But in these cases, it is up to the dealer/GM to make a determination based on the exact circumstances.

You could challenge the denial, but it then becomes a royal PITA.

Paul R

...and if I disconnect my battery for a few months for storage, the ECU will record the "gap in service" and I could have an issue?

Bill Dearborn

The tools available to tuners don't have software access to the types of counters he is talking about. Tuning tools are extremely limited in what they can do. They don't have access to anything but the data tables used for drive train parameters. The tuning tools are the software equivalent of changing distributor advance weights and carb jets in the old days. Can you imagine the carnage that would happen if they had access to the actual control software that uses the data entered in the tables. How many tuners do you know that know how to design, code and debug real software. Would you trust them rewriting the control software of your PC?

Bill

NSC5

I expect the gap in service issue would come because the ECU and BCM communicate so switching between different ECUs will likely leave a trail there.

Rguy271

Ive never seen any proof of this being SOP.

b4i4getit

If you know the register in the ECU that contains the ECU software version it should be possible to use the MDI tech3 interface to read the value the car was assigned with and GM has recorded. Then you could reset it to the original value as needed.

Dan.S

You forget, that you can take the vehicle to ANY service provider you chose. And if they are authorized to work warranty issues there isn't anything stating they will provide the data back to GM. So the next time someone does take it to the dealer and they see that.....

the dealer cannot void a warranty strictly on access. They have to prove that an issue was caused by other than standard modification.

That is the whole point of MMA.

mdz06vetter

Uhm, actually it is up to the owner to prove that anything performed on their car has been performed by a truly authorized GM shop. Consequently, that is why complete records are required.

Babaron and Bill Dearborn are both correct in their assertions also. GM does NOT want someone mucking with the underlying code, and yes they do check all the counters, etc. that tools will not be able to access.

Dan.S

No, at that point it's on the service provider, since they state either way if they are an authorized service center. And even that, you don't have to be for warranty work. If recommended or suitable parts are used, they can't deny a warranty, no matter who does the work. That is the current law. The manufacturer or dealership cannot force you to go to "authorized" places of business, period.

mdz06vetter

Think we are in violent agreement here. Yes, if the repair shop is an AUTHORIZED GM repair center they should have records, but it is NOT up to GM to determine that - the owner is ultimately responsible for ensuring records are kept and GM can access them from a warranty and/or other repair perspective - extended service contracts, etc.

eddie08z06

I was always under the impression that it is up to the dealership to prove that you tampered with the car.

Isnt it innocent until proven guilty?

The only reason I asked the question to begin with was because I have been hearing many stories about how the first thing the dealer looks at after a major mechanical failure is the ecu, and if it's flashed that's where they draw the line period.

I have had a 02 z06 with nitrous, 08 z06 with head and cam, along with many other vehicles such as Porsche turbo Porsche guys, srt8 challenger, m3, x5m, etc. all of these vehicles were flashed subsequent to installing the performance hardware.

I have taken these vehicles many times to dealer for warranty work and never had a issue, but now I am a little worried with this new Z and I want some concrete truth as how the process is with this new model to avoid a intricate situation for myself and many others who probably have the same question throughout the nation.

Kind regards,

-Eddie

mdz06vetter

There are a number of folks on this forum who have went through what you are asking about - am sure they will respond with their experiences, or at least hope they would. Personally, have not with the 2015 Z06, nor did I do anything on my 2010 ZR1 that would have been considered worthy of warranty work being denied.

Redc8z06

I wouldn't expect a dealer to check the ECU every time you happen to bring your car in, for example an oil change or a warranty issue outside of something involving the engine and or drive-train. I would expect when there is an issue with the engine the dealer would by right check to see if any modifications were done. Much of this can also depend on the relationship you have with your dealer. As you could have an engine issue non-related to any ECU changes but the dealer could use it against you.

GrampZ

Actually, it's a "Dan.S" is right on the law, but mdz06vetter is right in the real world.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act says, in effect, a manufacturer cannot control who you have service your car by making its warranty contingent upon you using its dealers, or its parts.

If a manufacturer denies your warranty because you modified your car, had it serviced with non-oem parts, or improperly serviced, the burden is on the manufacturer to prove it.

So, for example, if GM denies your warranty claim for a dropped valve because you put some high flow mufflers on the car, GM will have to prove that your fancy mufflers caused the dropped valve.

BUT ... (remember Professor Whoopee, and Paul Harvey?) ...

What are you going to do about it? Pay a lawyer $300-$400 / hour to fight GM over the cost of repair? As a practical matter, GM knows it would not be worth your money to fight them.

Best just to either follow the rules, or make a conscious choice to mod your car, and expect GM to honor your warranty only where there's no relationship whatsoever between the mods and any failure.