2nd Hellcat I bumped in to...C7 Z FTW!
05-02-2016, 12:43 PM
#81
Drifting
It's slower in the quarter than the Z. It's officially 11.2 vs 10.95 on stock tires. Chrysler released a 10.85 on drag radials, but then you have to compare to a Z with drag radials.
I think it's awesome Dodge builds that thing. But I don't envy it, except I'd like it motor in my truck maybe.
I think it's awesome Dodge builds that thing. But I don't envy it, except I'd like it motor in my truck maybe.
05-02-2016, 01:17 PM
#83
05-02-2016, 01:26 PM
#84
Le Mans Master
05-02-2016, 09:05 PM
#85
Melting Slicks
Come on, The hellcat with only 57 more horse and 900 lbs heavier should never give a Z06 any sweat. Roll racing is B/S, run the damn hellcats from a dig and always kick there pig heavy *** in the 1/4 mile.
High speed roll racing smooths out the weight difference and the Z06 aero slows the car at high MPH giving the fat cat the advantage.
High speed roll racing smooths out the weight difference and the Z06 aero slows the car at high MPH giving the fat cat the advantage.
05-02-2016, 09:10 PM
#86
Le Mans Master
Come on, The hellcat with only 57 more horse and 900 lbs heavier should never give a Z06 any sweat. Roll racing is B/S, run the damn hellcats from a dig and always kick there pig heavy *** in the 1/4 mile.
High speed roll racing smooths out the weight difference and the Z06 aero slows the car at high MPH giving the fat cat the advantage.
High speed roll racing smooths out the weight difference and the Z06 aero slows the car at high MPH giving the fat cat the advantage.
05-03-2016, 09:09 AM
#87
Drifting
Come on, The hellcat with only 57 more horse and 900 lbs heavier should never give a Z06 any sweat. Roll racing is B/S, run the damn hellcats from a dig and always kick there pig heavy *** in the 1/4 mile.
High speed roll racing smooths out the weight difference and the Z06 aero slows the car at high MPH giving the fat cat the advantage.
High speed roll racing smooths out the weight difference and the Z06 aero slows the car at high MPH giving the fat cat the advantage.
They have a TQ advantage too.
05-03-2016, 10:57 AM
#88
Le Mans Master
Come on, The hellcat with only 57 more horse and 900 lbs heavier should never give a Z06 any sweat. Roll racing is B/S, run the damn hellcats from a dig and always kick there pig heavy *** in the 1/4 mile.
High speed roll racing smooths out the weight difference and the Z06 aero slows the car at high MPH giving the fat cat the advantage.
High speed roll racing smooths out the weight difference and the Z06 aero slows the car at high MPH giving the fat cat the advantage.
Again anyone in the oakbrook IL area who wants to boogie with a hellcat, pm me, those cars are very close, the driver and the jump makes all the difference .
If people want to set up a drag day at Byron or us41 let me know as well, I've done many CF dragday events at Byron , know the owner, and can have trophys so made for winners of any contest that we make up.... Best 1/4 stock, modded, highest trap etc.... Anything we want, now who wants to come out and race for real.
Last edited by NytmereZ; 05-03-2016 at 11:02 AM.
05-03-2016, 12:16 PM
#89
Melting Slicks
Come on, The hellcat with only 57 more horse and 900 lbs heavier should never give a Z06 any sweat. Roll racing is B/S, run the damn hellcats from a dig and always kick there pig heavy *** in the 1/4 mile.
High speed roll racing smooths out the weight difference and the Z06 aero slows the car at high MPH giving the fat cat the advantage.
High speed roll racing smooths out the weight difference and the Z06 aero slows the car at high MPH giving the fat cat the advantage.
I know of people who have gotten even higher numbers.
I think it's safe to say it's underrated.
05-03-2016, 01:02 PM
#90
Le Mans Master
Motor Trend got... 671.64 HP and 606.39 TQ to the rear wheels in their Hellcat test......
I know of people who have gotten even higher numbers.
I think it's safe to say it's underrated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BZOcxQQC2M
I know of people who have gotten even higher numbers.
I think it's safe to say it's underrated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BZOcxQQC2M
Just by saying you've seen people get X and "more than X" shows that the numbers you're getting from chassis dynos are variable and therefore not accurate.
J1349 is so specific that you should be able to ship the same engine from Denver to Anchorage and get the same numbers. Most chassis dyno operators can't get the same number from the same car on two different days.
Everyone claims their favorite cars are underrated, but it's really not possible to get away with it for the last 5-10 years. That's why the LS7 was 505 and not 500. They couldn't underrated it to an even 500.
05-03-2016, 01:42 PM
#91
Melting Slicks
No, it is not, because Dodge uses J1349. That's accurate.
Just by saying you've seen people get X and "more than X" shows that the numbers you're getting from chassis dynos are variable and therefore not accurate.
J1349 is so specific that you should be able to ship the same engine from Denver to Anchorage and get the same numbers. Most chassis dyno operators can't get the same number from the same car on two different days.
Everyone claims their favorite cars are underrated, but it's really not possible to get away with it for the last 5-10 years. That's why the LS7 was 505 and not 500. They couldn't underrated it to an even 500.
Just by saying you've seen people get X and "more than X" shows that the numbers you're getting from chassis dynos are variable and therefore not accurate.
J1349 is so specific that you should be able to ship the same engine from Denver to Anchorage and get the same numbers. Most chassis dyno operators can't get the same number from the same car on two different days.
Everyone claims their favorite cars are underrated, but it's really not possible to get away with it for the last 5-10 years. That's why the LS7 was 505 and not 500. They couldn't underrated it to an even 500.
There is "theoretically" only a 57 HP diff at the crank.
I would think that due to the Z06 carbon fiber drive shaft and 1000 pounds less mass that there would be... even less difference... at the rear wheels, due to a more efficient drivetrain.
Can you clear this up for me?
I have both cars so I have no dog in this fight.
Last edited by Hemi Dave; 05-03-2016 at 01:58 PM.
05-03-2016, 01:55 PM
#92
Burning Brakes
ok so accourding to you...lets take 2 formula 1 cars (which have the least drag vs any other car) lets compare 1 with with all the wings and all the other adjustable stuff it has and set it to least amount of downforce or remove it completly vs the the other formula 1 car which has remind untouched and still retains the same amount of downforce and both lets assume have almost identical drag....according to you both cars should be equally fast in a straight line? ......
i think you need to pick up that book and read it to me you may have a few things wrongs...id like you to explain how thats possible?
even if 1000lbs of downforce doesn't exactly translate to 1000lbs heavier, its putting 1000lbs of pressure or force towards the ground (creating greater friction)...so how does that no effect the speed?
also lets compare the viper acr to a viper ta...both stock the ta is faster in a straight line (freeway racing) both have very similar drag..nothing thats drastically different..but both have every different downforce lbs....
you just don't make sense bother...
i think you need to pick up that book and read it to me you may have a few things wrongs...id like you to explain how thats possible?
even if 1000lbs of downforce doesn't exactly translate to 1000lbs heavier, its putting 1000lbs of pressure or force towards the ground (creating greater friction)...so how does that no effect the speed?
also lets compare the viper acr to a viper ta...both stock the ta is faster in a straight line (freeway racing) both have very similar drag..nothing thats drastically different..but both have every different downforce lbs....
you just don't make sense bother...
Acceleration = Force divided by mass. Dynamic pressure caused by aero treatment on an automobile, formula one or otherwise is not mass.
05-03-2016, 01:59 PM
#93
Burning Brakes
No, it is not, because Dodge uses J1349. That's accurate.
Just by saying you've seen people get X and "more than X" shows that the numbers you're getting from chassis dynos are variable and therefore not accurate.
J1349 is so specific that you should be able to ship the same engine from Denver to Anchorage and get the same numbers. Most chassis dyno operators can't get the same number from the same car on two different days.
Everyone claims their favorite cars are underrated, but it's really not possible to get away with it for the last 5-10 years. That's why the LS7 was 505 and not 500. They couldn't underrated it to an even 500.
Just by saying you've seen people get X and "more than X" shows that the numbers you're getting from chassis dynos are variable and therefore not accurate.
J1349 is so specific that you should be able to ship the same engine from Denver to Anchorage and get the same numbers. Most chassis dyno operators can't get the same number from the same car on two different days.
Everyone claims their favorite cars are underrated, but it's really not possible to get away with it for the last 5-10 years. That's why the LS7 was 505 and not 500. They couldn't underrated it to an even 500.
So how would that be explained.
05-03-2016, 02:11 PM
#94
Le Mans Master
I'll be honest, this is a tough argument to have because where a chassis dyno disagrees with my preconceived notion, I'm going to assume the chassis dyno is wrong.
Let's push the envelope a little and say the Dodge only has 12% drivetrain loss whereas that Z06 has 18%. I doubt it's that different, but let's try it.
The Z06, with 650, will dyno at 533, whereas the Dodge will dyno at 622, almost your hundred horsepower difference. I don't think that's the reality, but it shows how we could wind up with those numbers being so far apart.
We're talking about some big raw numbers here, so if your chassis dyno operator chooses a different correct factor or density altitude or otherwise monkeys with the weather station, for example, 15% of 707 is over 100 horsepower already. Get two tests a couple of points in the opposite direction and the discrepancies add up fast.
Let's push the envelope a little and say the Dodge only has 12% drivetrain loss whereas that Z06 has 18%. I doubt it's that different, but let's try it.
The Z06, with 650, will dyno at 533, whereas the Dodge will dyno at 622, almost your hundred horsepower difference. I don't think that's the reality, but it shows how we could wind up with those numbers being so far apart.
We're talking about some big raw numbers here, so if your chassis dyno operator chooses a different correct factor or density altitude or otherwise monkeys with the weather station, for example, 15% of 707 is over 100 horsepower already. Get two tests a couple of points in the opposite direction and the discrepancies add up fast.
05-03-2016, 02:39 PM
#95
Melting Slicks
Instead of skewing the dyno #s with drivetrain efficiency, the Hellcat is definitely underrated where the Corvette dyno's where it should SAE certified. The hellcats typically dyno higher rwhp than the 707 crank horse would indicate. Doing the horse per lb math puts the hellcat very close to the 662 HP GT500. The hellcat ET's are better than the GT500. From the beginning, The hellcats typically run better than they should because they are underated the Z06 is where it should be, never better because they are not.
05-03-2016, 05:17 PM
#97
Scraping the splitter.
Instead of skewing the dyno #s with drivetrain efficiency, the Hellcat is definitely underrated where the Corvette dyno's where it should SAE certified. The hellcats typically dyno higher rwhp than the 707 crank horse would indicate. Doing the horse per lb math puts the hellcat very close to the 662 HP GT500. The hellcat ET's are better than the GT500. From the beginning, The hellcats typically run better than they should because they are underated the Z06 is where it should be, never better because they are not.
S.
05-03-2016, 07:06 PM
#98
Melting Slicks
That would skew the #'s for sure, and that engine was also an "over performer".
These engineers are smart people....They know how to get around things.
05-03-2016, 07:09 PM
#99
Burning Brakes
I'll be honest, this is a tough argument to have because where a chassis dyno disagrees with my preconceived notion, I'm going to assume the chassis dyno is wrong.
Let's push the envelope a little and say the Dodge only has 12% drivetrain loss whereas that Z06 has 18%. I doubt it's that different, but let's try it.
The Z06, with 650, will dyno at 533, whereas the Dodge will dyno at 622, almost your hundred horsepower difference. I don't think that's the reality, but it shows how we could wind up with those numbers being so far apart.
We're talking about some big raw numbers here, so if your chassis dyno operator chooses a different correct factor or density altitude or otherwise monkeys with the weather station, for example, 15% of 707 is over 100 horsepower already. Get two tests a couple of points in the opposite direction and the discrepancies add up fast.
Let's push the envelope a little and say the Dodge only has 12% drivetrain loss whereas that Z06 has 18%. I doubt it's that different, but let's try it.
The Z06, with 650, will dyno at 533, whereas the Dodge will dyno at 622, almost your hundred horsepower difference. I don't think that's the reality, but it shows how we could wind up with those numbers being so far apart.
We're talking about some big raw numbers here, so if your chassis dyno operator chooses a different correct factor or density altitude or otherwise monkeys with the weather station, for example, 15% of 707 is over 100 horsepower already. Get two tests a couple of points in the opposite direction and the discrepancies add up fast.
Last dyno night I was at, a hellcat with paper tags put down 660 whp, which would mean only a 7% drivetrain loss from the factory rating. Same night, same dyno, my car dyno'd right where it should have leading me to believe that the dyno wasn't the reason for such a high number on the hellcat...