2nd Hellcat I bumped in to...C7 Z FTW!
05-03-2016, 08:17 PM
#102
Le Mans Master
All I can tell you is one of the SRT engineers stated they "certified" the 392 Hemi engine in a very hot and humid room.
That would skew the #'s for sure, and that engine was also an "over performer".
These engineers are smart people....They know how to get around things.
That would skew the #'s for sure, and that engine was also an "over performer".
These engineers are smart people....They know how to get around things.
Nobody is getting around anything. But I've already repeated myself enough times, I'll just disagree from a distance... not only do you have to correct for variations in humidity and temp, but you have to physically control them within a tight range every BEFORE correcting.
J1349:
"7.5.8 INLET AIR CONDITIONS
The pressure, temperature, and humidity of the engine’s inlet air supply shall be controlled as close to the
standard reference conditions per 5.1 as possible to minimize the correction factor. The inlet air pressure
temperature and humidity shall not deviate from the controlled set points by more than 3% for the entire
test."
Last edited by davepl; 05-03-2016 at 08:21 PM.
05-03-2016, 08:18 PM
#103
Melting Slicks
Again, the LBS per HP says the car shouldn't be as quick as it is for a rear wheel drive car, its in the same league as a 662 hp 3850LB 2013 /14 GT500.The fat cat kills the stang, manual for manual, OE tire for OE tire
05-03-2016, 08:58 PM
#104
Drifting
05-03-2016, 09:30 PM
#105
Le Mans Master
1) At the risk of millions of dollars in fines, Dodge lied about J1349 certification, or
2) The chassis dyno wasn't accurate
Solution is left to the reader as an exercise, as they say!
05-03-2016, 09:31 PM
#106
Race Director
Have we not been reading how Volkswagen and others have cheated on pollution tests just this year?? Well we are all sure no one can fool the gubmint right? I mean them rules they have to follow and all... 
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Hemi Dave (05-04-2016)
05-03-2016, 09:47 PM
#107
Le Mans Master
Can't prove it either way without my own J1349-certified dyno and a hellcat motor, so...
Last edited by davepl; 05-03-2016 at 09:47 PM.
05-03-2016, 10:05 PM
#108
Le Mans Master
Bottom line is its real that the hellcat is underrated at 707hp. I recently borrowed my friends Charger hellcat for a week and was really impressed with that car from a roll. His father has a A8 Z06 amd they recently dyno'd them same shop and same day. The vette made 539rwhp and the hellcat which is also an auto made 641rwhp.
Technically by advertised flywheel horsepower the hellcat should have ONLY 57 more horsepower than the Z06 but it's been proven again and again that is simply not the case. Most hellcats are more like 750 horsepower.
I don't know how that's possible. I don't know how dodge would get away with that and I don't care. All my real world experiences show me the hellcat is either underrated or simply defies physics lol
Technically by advertised flywheel horsepower the hellcat should have ONLY 57 more horsepower than the Z06 but it's been proven again and again that is simply not the case. Most hellcats are more like 750 horsepower.
I don't know how that's possible. I don't know how dodge would get away with that and I don't care. All my real world experiences show me the hellcat is either underrated or simply defies physics lol
Last edited by thegame; 05-03-2016 at 10:06 PM.
05-03-2016, 10:49 PM
#109
Drifting
Here is a 1000lb difference in weight and approximately 100hp difference between the two which is why it's a drivers race stock for stock.
I added upper/lower , headers, intake, and E85 and picked up 170whp. Made 855whp.
Made 910 at 5500 but ran out of fuel so we dialed it down.
Those cars are stout.
Doing the exact same thing to my Z now and I will be lucky to be in the 700s.
I added upper/lower , headers, intake, and E85 and picked up 170whp. Made 855whp.
Made 910 at 5500 but ran out of fuel so we dialed it down.
Those cars are stout.
Doing the exact same thing to my Z now and I will be lucky to be in the 700s.
05-04-2016, 12:12 AM
#110
Scraping the splitter.
Bottom line is its real that the hellcat is underrated at 707hp. I recently borrowed my friends Charger hellcat for a week and was really impressed with that car from a roll. His father has a A8 Z06 amd they recently dyno'd them same shop and same day. The vette made 539rwhp and the hellcat which is also an auto made 641rwhp.
Technically by advertised flywheel horsepower the hellcat should have ONLY 57 more horsepower than the Z06 but it's been proven again and again that is simply not the case. Most hellcats are more like 750 horsepower.
I don't know how that's possible. I don't know how dodge would get away with that and I don't care. All my real world experiences show me the hellcat is either underrated or simply defies physics lol
Technically by advertised flywheel horsepower the hellcat should have ONLY 57 more horsepower than the Z06 but it's been proven again and again that is simply not the case. Most hellcats are more like 750 horsepower.
I don't know how that's possible. I don't know how dodge would get away with that and I don't care. All my real world experiences show me the hellcat is either underrated or simply defies physics lol
Roll and street races don't mean anything, because there are variables that are not quantifiable (which car jumps, which car spins, driver ability, etc.). But timeslips and real data do not lie. And from what I've seen posted regarding half- and mile events, the Z06's are faster as well.
All that being said, two cars with two different goals. The HC will NEVER come close to the Z06 on a road course. You could very likely drive the Z06 at well below it's abilities and the HC wouldn't be able to maintain pace. Anybody who thinks otherwise is clearly ignorant of how a 4400# on skinny tires works around turns. Conversely, the HC is probably a much more useful street car in a number of facets.
S.
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Lavender (05-04-2016)
05-04-2016, 07:58 AM
#111
Le Mans Master
Whatever the issue is with the Hellcat's actual horsepower, we do know that although they are fast for a ~4400# car, they still aren't as fast as a C7 Z06 stock vs. stock. There are a plethora of stock and DR-only Z06's that have ran low-mid 10's at well over 130 mph...something the HC hasn't done.
Roll and street races don't mean anything, because there are variables that are not quantifiable (which car jumps, which car spins, driver ability, etc.). But timeslips and real data do not lie. And from what I've seen posted regarding half- and mile events, the Z06's are faster as well.
All that being said, two cars with two different goals. The HC will NEVER come close to the Z06 on a road course. You could very likely drive the Z06 at well below it's abilities and the HC wouldn't be able to maintain pace. Anybody who thinks otherwise is clearly ignorant of how a 4400# on skinny tires works around turns. Conversely, the HC is probably a much more useful street car in a number of facets.
S.
Roll and street races don't mean anything, because there are variables that are not quantifiable (which car jumps, which car spins, driver ability, etc.). But timeslips and real data do not lie. And from what I've seen posted regarding half- and mile events, the Z06's are faster as well.
All that being said, two cars with two different goals. The HC will NEVER come close to the Z06 on a road course. You could very likely drive the Z06 at well below it's abilities and the HC wouldn't be able to maintain pace. Anybody who thinks otherwise is clearly ignorant of how a 4400# on skinny tires works around turns. Conversely, the HC is probably a much more useful street car in a number of facets.
S.
05-04-2016, 11:50 AM
#113
Race Director
That'd mean you're going with "At the risk of millions of dollars in fines, Dodge lied about J1349 certification", which I find to be unlikely. VW did it to save a ton of money and cheat on emissions. Do we really think Dodge would run the risk so they could underrate a motor?
Can't prove it either way without my own J1349-certified dyno and a hellcat motor, so...
Can't prove it either way without my own J1349-certified dyno and a hellcat motor, so...
I'm thinking even obama doesn't care about HP ratings very much...I mean its on the list and all but I bet its way down the list.
You can pretty much know they lie if their lips are moving....All of them.
05-04-2016, 02:05 PM
#114
Instructor
To be a rookie doesn't he have to be old enough to have a drivers license ?
He talks about all the exotic cars he own(I'm sure he does on Xbox) and make childish remarks like calling the hellcat a hellfat ,totally something a 13 years old would say. Up until 1 week ago I had a C7Z, I went head to head with my buddies a8 hellcat at least two dozen times, whoom ever got the jump won the race, we are are only talking a couple of cars either way. I never did more than 4 runs back to back because the Z's temps did tend to get up, and you could definatly feel the car pull timing, so we would stop to let the Z cool down, by doing this I never went into limo mode
From a dead stop its the Z by 2 cars(if I didn't blow the launch)
Of there are any C7Z06 owners in the oakbrook il area who want to run a hellcat, I can probably make that happen, and if you beat the hellcat you get a shot at my viper TA.
Anyone?
He talks about all the exotic cars he own(I'm sure he does on Xbox) and make childish remarks like calling the hellcat a hellfat ,totally something a 13 years old would say. Up until 1 week ago I had a C7Z, I went head to head with my buddies a8 hellcat at least two dozen times, whoom ever got the jump won the race, we are are only talking a couple of cars either way. I never did more than 4 runs back to back because the Z's temps did tend to get up, and you could definatly feel the car pull timing, so we would stop to let the Z cool down, by doing this I never went into limo mode
From a dead stop its the Z by 2 cars(if I didn't blow the launch)
Of there are any C7Z06 owners in the oakbrook il area who want to run a hellcat, I can probably make that happen, and if you beat the hellcat you get a shot at my viper TA.
Anyone?
Who cares, both fast cars lock thread please
05-05-2016, 01:22 PM
#117
Drifting
Whatever the issue is with the Hellcat's actual horsepower, we do know that although they are fast for a ~4400# car, they still aren't as fast as a C7 Z06 stock vs. stock. There are a plethora of stock and DR-only Z06's that have ran low-mid 10's at well over 130 mph...something the HC hasn't done.
Roll and street races don't mean anything, because there are variables that are not quantifiable (which car jumps, which car spins, driver ability, etc.). But timeslips and real data do not lie. And from what I've seen posted regarding half- and mile events, the Z06's are faster as well.
All that being said, two cars with two different goals. The HC will NEVER come close to the Z06 on a road course. You could very likely drive the Z06 at well below it's abilities and the HC wouldn't be able to maintain pace. Anybody who thinks otherwise is clearly ignorant of how a 4400# on skinny tires works around turns. Conversely, the HC is probably a much more useful street car in a number of facets.
S.
Roll and street races don't mean anything, because there are variables that are not quantifiable (which car jumps, which car spins, driver ability, etc.). But timeslips and real data do not lie. And from what I've seen posted regarding half- and mile events, the Z06's are faster as well.
All that being said, two cars with two different goals. The HC will NEVER come close to the Z06 on a road course. You could very likely drive the Z06 at well below it's abilities and the HC wouldn't be able to maintain pace. Anybody who thinks otherwise is clearly ignorant of how a 4400# on skinny tires works around turns. Conversely, the HC is probably a much more useful street car in a number of facets.
S.
Otherwise - agreed
05-05-2016, 02:04 PM
#118
Scraping the splitter.
I think if Dodge had equipped the Hellcat w/ better tires from the factory the 1/4 mile times stock would be much closer.....I mean the Z06 has wider FRONT tires than a Hellcat has outback....and that shortcoming is only exacerbated by the extra weight of the Challenger
Otherwise - agreed
Otherwise - agreed
S.
05-05-2016, 04:53 PM
#119
Le Mans Master
What do you mean by "who cares"? , looks like a bunch of people care as there is 3 pages and counting, also I'm offering to get a track rental put together, for the people in the Chicago , Indiana, Wisconsin area to do some real drag racing not keyboard bickering.