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C7 Z06 Main Cat Delete Kit

 
Old 11-19-2018, 10:57 AM
  #661  
3 Z06ZR1
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Originally Posted by 6Speeder View Post
Why in the world are you telling people such stupid things????

First of all, the car does not "LEARN" when it's in WOT, because it's in open loop and just reads a table, not adjusting from that.

Second, all you are doing, if anything, is reducing your power by bleeding off boost when loose. It does not give you more boost when you tighten the bolts then it would have if the bolts were already tight all the time. It does not "LEARN" to bring the boost back to stock levels when loose, nor add more than stock when retightened. It doesn't work that way.

Third, loosening the bolts, causing an air leak after the supercharger will NOT cause it to run lean, if anything it will run rich. It only knows how much air is being inhaled at the MAF and adds fuel accordingly (from lookup tables, NOT learning when open loop). If you bleed off air the injectors will still be adding enough fuel for what the MAF read, and you will be running rich. Stupid.

Let me repeat, it does not learn when in WOT or open loop. Does not happen.

One thing I agree with you on, you probably do feel less power with loose bolts cutting boost and running rich.

Please, please, show us what GM has said about this. I'd LOVE to see this in writing.
Thanks for some correct facts to help with the bad info spread around here,
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Old 11-19-2018, 11:58 AM
  #662  
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Originally Posted by 6Speeder View Post
Why in the world are you telling people such stupid things????

First of all, the car does not "LEARN" when it's in WOT, because it's in open loop and just reads a table, not adjusting from that.

Second, all you are doing, if anything, is reducing your power by bleeding off boost when loose. It does not give you more boost when you tighten the bolts then it would have if the bolts were already tight all the time. It does not "LEARN" to bring the boost back to stock levels when loose, nor add more than stock when retightened. It doesn't work that way.

Third, loosening the bolts, causing an air leak after the supercharger will NOT cause it to run lean, if anything it will run rich. It only knows how much air is being inhaled at the MAF and adds fuel accordingly (from lookup tables, NOT learning when open loop). If you bleed off air the injectors will still be adding enough fuel for what the MAF read, and you will be running rich. Stupid.

Let me repeat, it does not learn when in WOT or open loop. Does not happen.

One thing I agree with you on, you probably do feel less power with loose bolts cutting boost and running rich.

Please, please, show us what GM has said about this. I'd LOVE to see this in writing.
well, i never said it would run lean with the bolts loose, i said it would learn to run normal AFR while they are loose, and once they are tight, it will run slightly lean.

I have heard (but do not know 100% for sure) that the cars learn based on the o2 sensors readings. I have also seen where changes to the intake cause check engine lights to come on temporarily, and then the light goes out again. So in that regard, it seems the car does "learn" at least to accept upgrades that it was mad about 2 days before.

Regardless, what I can say for sure is, i notice the difference in power when i tighten them vs when they were loose. So I guess what I am suggesting is, IF a person is one who believes that the cars DO learn to maintain a certain AFR IF THE o2 ARE STILL IN TACT AND REPORTING CORRECTLY... then loosening and tightening the bolts may be a convenient way for some to "trick" the computer, leading up to a race.

For those that don't believe the cars learn in any way, i think I disagree for the reasons I stated above from my own observations where the cars learn to accept mods they are originally mad about, but either way, I may be wrong.

But please don't attempt to put words in my mouth that I think the car will run lean with the bolts loose... i was saying that was the goal when one finally tightens them down... to get the car to run lean AFTER... during the race.

Last edited by Mikec7z; 11-19-2018 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 11-19-2018, 12:02 PM
  #663  
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Originally Posted by 6Speeder View Post
Why in the world are you telling people such stupid things????

First of all, the car does not "LEARN" when it's in WOT, because it's in open loop and just reads a table, not adjusting from that.

Second, all you are doing, if anything, is reducing your power by bleeding off boost when loose. It does not give you more boost when you tighten the bolts then it would have if the bolts were already tight all the time. It does not "LEARN" to bring the boost back to stock levels when loose, nor add more than stock when retightened. It doesn't work that way.

Third, loosening the bolts, causing an air leak after the supercharger will NOT cause it to run lean, if anything it will run rich. It only knows how much air is being inhaled at the MAF and adds fuel accordingly (from lookup tables, NOT learning when open loop). If you bleed off air the injectors will still be adding enough fuel for what the MAF read, and you will be running rich. Stupid.

Let me repeat, it does not learn when in WOT or open loop. Does not happen.
I think you're missing the point.
If there is a boost or vacuum leak, the MAF will sense a different amount of air coming in than the engine is actually using. This will be sensed by the oxygen sensors while in closed loop, and eventually be adjusted for in the long-term fuel trims. These stored closed-loop fuel trims will influence fueling in open loop.

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Old 11-19-2018, 12:07 PM
  #664  
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warp.... you should not tell people such STUPID THINGS!!!
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Old 11-19-2018, 12:30 PM
  #665  
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Originally Posted by Mikec7z View Post
warp.... you should not tell people such STUPID THINGS!!!
I know.
If it doesn't match their per-conceived notions, one or two will fall back on the name-calling and abusive behavior. I guess it's the only way they know how to handle things which are beyond their learning envelope.
Kinda sad.

Last edited by Warp Factor; 11-19-2018 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 11-19-2018, 12:38 PM
  #666  
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Originally Posted by 3 Z06ZR1 View Post
Thanks for some correct facts to help with the bad info spread around here,
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Old 11-19-2018, 03:32 PM
  #667  
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Originally Posted by Warp Factor View Post
I know.
If it doesn't match their per-conceived notions, one or two will fall back on the name-calling and abusive behavior. I guess it's the only way they know how to handle things which are beyond their learning envelope.
Kinda sad.
What is sad is that some newbie might believe him.

Mike, you need to go back to Corvette ECM 101. Your theories are totally wrong.
You will not get extra power above normal when you tighten the bolts. It'll just revert back to where it should be all the time. You're so fond of telling others to dyno, why don't you dyno this little trick yourself. Dyno it with the bolts tight, loosen them, drive around some and dyno loose (try to get the conditions the same with the car), then tighten and dyno again. You won't see additional power above the first dyno.

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Old 11-19-2018, 03:51 PM
  #668  
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Originally Posted by Warp Factor View Post
I know.
If it doesn't match their per-conceived notions, one or two will fall back on the name-calling and abusive behavior. I guess it's the only way they know how to handle things which are beyond their learning envelope.
Kinda sad.
Originally Posted by 6Speeder View Post
What is sad is that some newbie might believe him. Mike, you need to.....
I wasn't referring to Mike.

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Old 11-19-2018, 04:32 PM
  #669  
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Originally Posted by Warp Factor View Post
I wasn't referring to Mike.


I always wondered about those "reading comprehension tests" they gave us in school. I would think to myself, "is there actually someone on this planet, who does speak English, who is my age, who would fail this test? Seems like such a waste of time for us to have to take this!"

Well, now I realize, there are indeed such people
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Old 11-19-2018, 05:57 PM
  #670  
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Originally Posted by Warp Factor View Post
I wasn't referring to Mike.
I know you weren't. Your points have merit. His did not.
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Old 11-19-2018, 06:06 PM
  #671  
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Originally Posted by 6Speeder View Post
I know you weren't. Your points have merit. His did not.
I do see merit in Mike's posts.

No, 3Z06ZR1, I am not Mike posting under another name.
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:19 AM
  #672  
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The Norcal cat delete pipes arrived today. Nice looking piece of work. These are the last parts I have been waiting for before taking the plunge and increasing boost and getting the car tuned. This will remain primarily a street car with the occasional 1/4 mile just to see what it is capable of as well as what I am capable of. Only things left now are Jet Hot coating the Norcal pipes, scheduling shop install & dyno tuning.

Last edited by jstewart; 11-20-2018 at 01:21 AM.
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Old 11-20-2018, 09:52 AM
  #673  
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Originally Posted by Warp Factor View Post
I do see merit in Mike's posts.

No, 3Z06ZR1, I am not Mike posting under another name.
I'm sorry you see merit in his idea to run with the supercharger bolts loose. It's stupid and gains nothing. The ECM will not learn to get back the stock boost in this condition and will not give more power than stock when retightened. That's stupid and I simply can't believe a GM dealer told him something so ludicrous. If a dealer told me this I'd run the other way and never trust them again.
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Old 11-20-2018, 11:06 AM
  #674  
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Originally Posted by 6Speeder View Post
I'm sorry you see merit in his idea to run with the supercharger bolts loose. It's stupid and gains nothing. The ECM will not learn to get back the stock boost in this condition and will not give more power than stock when retightened. That's stupid and I simply can't believe a GM dealer told him something so ludicrous. If a dealer told me this I'd run the other way and never trust them again.
I don't know about this particular idea. Haven't tried it, and won't have a chance to any time soon. But I thought his supercharger coolant purging ideas, and his vacuum- purging video had a lot of value.

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Old 11-20-2018, 11:20 AM
  #675  
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Originally Posted by Warp Factor View Post
I don't know about this particular idea. Haven't tried it, and won't have a chance to any time soon. But I thought his supercharger coolant purging ideas, and his vacuum- purging video had a lot of value.
So did I warp. The videos and his explanations helped me get my intercooler purged properly. I don't intend to try his theory concerning the supercharger lid since I will be tuning the car with HP Tuners so there is no point. I would suggest he get some dyno data to back it up though. It usually costs $100 to $125 to get a simple 3 run dyno test with no tuning done. So it should cost him $200 to $250 to have two dyno tests done for before and after data.
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Old 11-20-2018, 12:11 PM
  #676  
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For those that run these with the stock x-pipe, is there a noticeable fume smell? Mainly in the cabin with the windows down or behind the car when warming up. Thanks.
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Old 11-20-2018, 03:16 PM
  #677  
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Originally Posted by Oh4GTO View Post
For those that run these with the stock x-pipe, is there a noticeable fume smell? Mainly in the cabin with the windows down or behind the car when warming up. Thanks.
I run them with the stock x pipe, but have gutted the stock cats. I don't get any smell in the cabin, some behind the car. Be advised it is very loud when the baffles are open.
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Old 11-20-2018, 04:18 PM
  #678  
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Originally Posted by 6Speeder View Post
I run them with the stock x pipe, but have gutted the stock cats. I don't get any smell in the cabin, some behind the car. Be advised it is very loud when the baffles are open.
How was it before the gutted secondary cats?
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Old 11-20-2018, 04:45 PM
  #679  
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I have customers I clouding myself that did this with the borla or Corsa x and on stock cam it's fine. You have a little smell but nothing major.

if your worried just do the main cost delete and keep 2nd ones since 2nd ones flow better
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Old 11-20-2018, 08:45 PM
  #680  
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Local guy just traded in his z06.... I have cat pipes with less than 500 miles.

650 shipped
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