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Starting and stopping pumps cause heat in the motor insulation and wears out the motors. These pumps run at a constant RPM.
okay, so i agree with that.. but the impeller isnt stopping, its kept moving from the other's flow...
So realistically, and i was thinking about this last night.... they probably go up and down in speed like a sin and cosin wave... when one is fast the other is slow.... so bubbles get brushed off the slower blade by the faster flow.
Then neither is ever off.
Theres many ways to do it all. Thats why in my other thread i am asking for the part numebrs of the 2 pumps... they might be different, and their timers stagger differently from the time the car is started.
They might be the same... and then a central control module controls the 2.
How about an aviation pulsating pump? Is 35 gph enough? No blades. Won’t stop.
how big and heavy are they? Im listening
I would say these stock z06 and zr1 pumps pump more than 35 gal per hour honestly... i wouldnt be surprised if they pump over a gallon a minute... if someone knows, let us know
35gph is a lot. Look up the pumps. This is my area of knowledge, I don’t think I need it, or hope I don’t. Google them. Just replace the pump with the aircraft one.
i feel like these z06 and zr1 pumps could fill a gallon in a minute, which is 60 gal an hour.
How much HEAT does your pump create? i haven't looked it up yet, im being lazy. A lot of times pumps that battering ram fluid over and over, they create heat.
It would only get hot for the small time it sucked air. If it’s got fluid it just kind of hums along. There’s more reliable pumps that will not be shutting down from air. Just suggesting alternatives. Also, the slower the flow, the cooler the fluid will get because it stays in the intercooler for longer time.
right, you want it to go as fast as it can basically... 90% of the system is not hot... so you want the fluid in 90% of the system as frequently as possible... so flowing faster will bring the blowers temp down the most.
But he fluid would also be staying in the intercooler bricks longer, where it would be getting hotter.
LOL, I was just getting ready to type the same reply.
More flow, the vast majority of the time, means more cooling ability. Think water pumps in cars. There's a reason road coarse guys don't run electric pumps
My fix... Put in a bigger single pump, with no shut down sequence. Bleed all the air, and then precharge the system with 5psi or so, cold.
okay, so i agree with that.. but the impeller isnt stopping, its kept moving from the other's flow...
So realistically, and i was thinking about this last night.... they probably go up and down in speed like a sin and cosin wave... when one is fast the other is slow.... so bubbles get brushed off the slower blade by the faster flow.
Then neither is ever off.
Theres many ways to do it all. Thats why in my other thread i am asking for the part numebrs of the 2 pumps... they might be different, and their timers stagger differently from the time the car is started.
They might be the same... and then a central control module controls the 2.
It doesn't matter if the impeller is spinning. Hitting power off and on creates heat in the windings and they wear out faster. How do we even know the ZR1 pumps shut off?
Originally Posted by Mikec7z
this pump does not shut down from air .... the sensor shuts it down from air.
NO pump is going to be allowed to suck air and OVERHEAT by gm... there will always be a sensor.... shutting any and all of them down.
Where is the sensor? Does it sense air? I can't find any sensor.
It doesn't matter if the impeller is spinning. Hitting power off and on creates heat in the windings and they wear out faster. How do we even know the ZR1 pumps shut off?
Where is the sensor? Does it sense air? I can't find any sensor.
i see your points and my wording may have been poor...
im saying, the pump does not have to shut off, instead it is programmed to shut off at a certain rpm most likely when it is in air/cavitation situation. So what im saying is, just as he was bragging his pump can continue in air... so can this one... and sooner or later both pumps will fail in air... so a SENSING MECHANISM/PROGRAM has to be added to the pump to get the pump to shut down.
As far as logic is concerned... do you think if the zr1 pumps are both in cavitation... perhaps due to a low fluid level... are you telling me... they will lack the programming to shut down at X rpm, when the z06 pumps DO have this shutdown? You think GM went backward with the zr1?
I don't know so all I can do is guess. Maybe they Z06 pump shuts off due to over amp or over heat which would be a sensor in the pump motor. It will over amp due to cavitation. Maybe the ZR1 system doesn't cavitate due to better fluid dynamic design. So the ZR1 pumps could have the motor sensors, but they don't need to shut off since the system is designed better. So using the ZR1 pumps in the Z06 doesn't fix the root issue.
BTW, it is late here so that means it is hella late there. I might go to bed.
Mike since your bled your intercooler have you had any incidents of power loss during high rpm wide open throttle operation?
Bill
I dont go to the quarter mile or have ET times or trap speeds, so its hard for me to know, but I do drive the car hard and take it up beyond 150 frequently. I can "sense" when the car has less power, when the car pulls timing etc, but don't have any data on this.
As far as a limp mode is concerned, I have never had a limp mode from this problem or a CEL from this problem, my limp modes came from something unrelated, which I have a firm grasp on.
IF the pump is shutting down on me, which I have to assume it is from time to time, as EVEN others who do have the pump top feed gravity aux tanks have said that they have logged the pump still going into cavitation with those "fixed" setups...
And i have recently learned of someone melting their bricks in an aftermarket blower during the 3 min shutdown with a "fixed" setup...
So I am trying to learn how to completely PREVENT this 3 min shut down, or how to REDUCE THE TIME of the 3 min shutdown down to 10 seconds or less, before I pull the trigger on a 2.9 whipple setup... otherwise, I feel I will be throwing money away and playing russian roulette with my engine... since the cooling bricks debris goes straight down to the intake valves, etc.
As a side note, i have had a lot of air return into my system since i purged it 10 days ago.
for those of you using a top feed system or plan to in the future, where the aux tank is above the pump and if people are still experiencing cavitation with their systems in this orientation, i stumbled into a little tidbit of useful knowledge perhaps...
the zr1 2019 has the 2 pumps as listed below... and the pumps do not match part number with each other. The only thing I can see different about the 2 pumps is that the orientation of the 2 pumps is different in the GM parts diagrams.
I do NOT know how you guys are aligning your z06 pump's orientations with top feed systems, but IF the pump's orientation matters for them to have a long life, it looks as tho the pumps that are to be top fed are gm p# 13597902, and our cars come with 13597903 which is in side feed orientation. (it could be that orientation of the pump has nothing to do with the different part number, and if that is the case, then I would assume how long they shut down during cavitation, is different between the 2 pumps) 3 minutes is the shutdown on the 13597903 on our cars. Perhaps it is only 2 min on the pump ending in 02? I have no idea.
The zr1 has both of these pumps, and I believe they are oriented differently from each other in the zr1 (can someone confirm or deny whether or not they are oriented differently in the zr1?... one top feed, one side feed) , as they are in the diagrams below (not the zr1 diagrams below, just gm parts diagram for each pump)
the 13597902 pump is used in the camaro zl1, and caddy's cars, but not z06.
it is possible that the 2 pumps behave differently as they experience cavitation... perhaps the 13597902 does not shut down for a full 3 min?
If anyone has this pump handy and can test it, let us know. But back to the orientation of the 2 pumps in the diagrams.... i can only imagine having the feed tube of the pump, pointing straight up to the aux tank that is feeding it, should likely eliminate cavitation much better, vs the side feed pump orientation would, as if there is ANY air in the top of the hose on the side feed pump, then that air will swirl around the impeller blade as they connect.
Long story short, top feed the 13597902 and your car might run better without any cavitation shutdowns and/or the shutdowns may be a shorter amount of time, as I would think air would get away from an impeller blade where the face of the blade is facing up... instead of facing sideways.... during pump shutdowns caused by cavitation.
Mike maybe you know... I asked that same question above to g speed and never got an answer (if they (g speed) were just moving the hoses around, or if they were remounting the pump in a different orientation to top feed it instead of side feeding)
07-24-2018, 09:01 PM
