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-Katech_Jason -- 1:10.2 -- C7/Z07/M7/MPSC2
-Track: Champion Motor Speedway @ M1 Concourse
-Layout (PLEASE TRY TO BE AS SPECIFIC AS POSSIBLE.): Full
-Transmission Type: M7
-Driving Mode/Settings: Track/PTM Sport 1
-Aero Package/Option Package/Setup: TIKT splitter/wing
-Tires: MPSC2
-Conditions/Temp: 55F, clear
-Best Time of the day/Session achieved: 1, morning
-Modifications, if any: Katech Stage 3, E85
-Notes (issues experienced, failures, overheat, passenger, anything pertinent that you feel affected your time, etc): none
OMG that's insane no way that's a second off a Gt3 cup car that weights 2500lb
Congrats insanity good stuff go get em was that the out of the box DSCsport tune?
OMG that's insane no way that's a second off a Gt3 cup car that weights 2500lb
Congrats insanity good stuff go get em was that the out of the box DSCsport tune?
Of course! Latest firmware and stock DSC tune. Why mess with perfection?
Of course! Latest firmware and stock DSC tune. Why mess with perfection?
I am so proud we're down here at Sebring imsa cup ran a 2;06 had pole and won I'd say DSC is doing pretty good at the track this week. Congrats again on such a personal victory.
ElCid79 says he has been time-starved in recent months, has not done any track events and sold his track car. He'd like for someone else to take over the updates.
If anyone is willing to do that, let me know and I'll help you get started.
I had gotten information from El after a wait for some time. He pulled the raw info and emailed it to me. I'll restart the thread tomorrow. Pm sent savewave
I had gotten information from El after a wait for some time. He pulled the raw info and emailed it to me. I'll restart the thread tomorrow. Pm sent savewave
- Time must be actually timed (PDR/Aftermarket datalogger/transponder/digital timer/Video with overlay/etc), no guesses or estimates.
- Driver must submit their own time (exceptions will be made at my discretion)
Submit Times in this Format: (copy and paste if you must...cntrl + C on your keyboard after highlighting, cntrl + V to paste ...or use mouse right click copy, right click paste
-Track
-Layout (if more than 1)
-Transmission Type
-Driving Mode/Settings
-Aero Package/Option Package/Setup
-Tires
-Conditions/Temp
-Overheat warning/failure if any
-Best Time of the day/Session achieved
-Modifications, if any
-Notes (issues experienced, failures, passenger, anything pertinent that you feel affected your time, etc)
What you will find here is a time at a given track, with a brief description of the car showing the transmission type/RPO and aero stage type/Tire type/Ambient Temperature. After that there is a link that says "details". Clicking this will automatically take you to where the person originally posted their data/video, or what ever other information is pertinent. Information such as alignment, setup, overall performance of the car, passengers, track experience there, etc.
Attention to PDR Timer Anomaly
The PDR timing has been revealed to have a flaw, in that it randomly jumps back 2 seconds. PLEASE watch your fast lap PDR video and count each second on the timer view. We are finding videos that the timer jumps backward and the data reflects the flawed time as well. All videos below found with timing issues will have an indication of "PDR" in bold at the beginning. That means the lap time appears to be 2 seconds slower than indicated
Legend:
Chassis Type by COLOR and NAME. Similar RPO is same color for quick IDENT
C7 ZR1 C7 Z06 C7 GrandSport C7 Z51 C7 Base C6 ZR1 C6 Z06 C6 GrandSport C6 Z51 C6 Base C5 Z06 C5 Z51 C5 Base Undefined
The CH-47960-10 tool that mounts to the rear upright to allow an angle gauge to determine angle of upright, in relation to the vehicle surface.
This is an actual tool used, as specified by GM that dealerships should have. One part of the tool mounts to the upright bracket, the other sits on the tire surface (lift ramp).
You could likely use a simple angle gauge on the above linked bracket, and then measure the angle of the surface the car is on. The difference would be your caster angle.
The C7 has adjustable rear caster. What does rear caster do?
In easiest lingo, I'll simply quote one of the best books I own, "How to make your car handle".
To understand the issue with improper caster in the rear, you must understand how a rear toe change impacts the car itself.
"Cars with independent rear suspension also have a toe setting at the rear. Because the driving forces tend to cause toe-in, the rear wheels are usually set at zero toe. The effect of toe-in, or toe-out on the rear is much like the front, toe out causing instability and oversteer. You should set the rear toe at the car manufacturers specs and do final adjustments at the track. Usually zero or a slight toe in will be the final setting, with high powered cars having the greatest need for a toe in setting."
With the addition of rear caster adjustment to the C7, the main reason was to eliminate dynamic bump steer if the cars suspension settings were altered (i.e. most track capable Corvette ever). Bump steer being when the suspension compresses or unloads, the toe angle changes with it, creating an inadvertent steering or deviation of the tires.
I suspect with the C7, the rear caster is set specifically upon assembly, then the car is aligned to a factory spec. Caster won't likely vary much (until bushing and joint wear set in), but if you immediately make large changes to camber in the rear for track use, this will likely not be the case.
To avoid changes in intended handling characteristics at, or approaching the limit, be sure to verify your rear caster setting, as this is a traditionally non-typical adjustment for a mass production vehicle. Most alignment shops will not be aware of its existence.
Understanding Heat/Cooling and design challenges
This is a recently released video on a channel I follow. I think it's content would be positive for some people in this community or for general knowledge. It would create a better understanding of what is faced creating a car of this caliber, giving it a warranty, then selling it to the masses. Enjoy.
Coolant Preparations and Summary: READ BEFORE you track your Z06
It should be noted that running the car with the highest octane fuel available, non leaded of course, is the best course of action to prevent knock induced timing retard, and subsequent rising temperatures. Also, proper bleeding of the cooling system is also essential.
Using the A8:
Suggested Cooling System Modifications THAT WORK
None with conclusive/proven results. Removing strips, ducts and altering vents, may have an obvious impact how and where air goes, but it is very likely to have a negative impact on aerodynamic functions, and potentially have passively negative results in the effectiveness of the systems designed around those ducts, strips and vents. If it makes you feel good, so be it, but nothing has been proven effective with good solid before and after data. Proceed to disassemble your Z06, with the intent of improving it, at your own risk
It is a given that some modifications to increase cooling system effectiveness, such as a larger/higher capacity radiator, will have some degree of improvement. How much of a true resulting improvement remains to be seen, until more people install them and can truly vouch for the obvious change in performance. Preliminary review of some upgraded radiators suggest that the manufacturer claims are somewhat greater than the true customer experience. With these cars, air is very directed through the core, and extracted out the hood. While larger capacity radiators, and use of more aluminum can have some impact, you are still dictated by surface area and available volume/temp of the air moving across the core.
Understand PTM Modes and When to Use Them Alex Macdonald, lead Corvette development engineer and expert in chassis controls, describes below how they are designed and how he utilizes them
Glossary:
TCS - Traction Control System
ESC - Electronic Stability Control
PTM - Performance Traction Management
MR - Magnetic Ride
ELSD - Electronic Limited Slip Differential
ABS - Anti Lock Braking System
Mode uses: WET: This mode is intended for any driver who is on a wet track. The track should be wet enough to be glossy, not just damp. A damp or drying track will require the driver to decide between WET and DRY modes to get the best performance. Standing water is not recommended as hydroplaning is possible and no TCS system can accurately control a tire that is hydroplaning.
The slip targets are very low, lower than in standard TCS. The MR is in tour mode to maximize mechanical grip since the lower cornering forces don’t require the extra control offered in Sport or Track. ESC is on and uses the normal calibration, not the competitive calibration.
DRY: This mode is for a novice driver on any track or an experienced driver learning a brand new track. I also use it to warm up the tires or run the mold release off of new tires, especially if it’s cold out.
Slip targets here are very similar to normal TCS but will feel very different due to the entry prediction. MR is in Sport to compliment the usage we expect in this mode. ESC is on but uses the competitive calibration.
SPORT 1: This mode is for any driver who is ready to run very competitive lap times while still having stability control on in the background. I use this mode whenever I have a passenger, possible distractions such as data collection, or as I am continuing to become more familiar with a new track.
Slip targets are higher here than in normal TCS. MR is in track mode and ESC is on using the competitive calibration.
SPORT 2: This mode uses the exact same traction control settings as SPORT 1 but turns off ESC completely. This mode is designed as a way to turn off ESC while maintaining a fairly stable TCS calibration. I use it very often. Basically any time where tenths of a second are not critical to my testing or when the tires are getting too hot or wearing out. After 10 to 15 consecutive laps it is likely that your fastest times will be achieved in SPORT 2 rather than RACE.
Slip targets here are the same as SPORT 1. MR is still in track mode and ESC is turned OFF.
RACE: This one is pretty self-explanatory, it’s as fast as we know how to make the car go. This mode is for a well prepared car on relatively new tires with an advanced driver that is completely familiar with the track. The track should be somewhat warm and the tires should be up to temperature.
Slip targets are 100% optimized for forward acceleration, any small variances in the track or tires can result in momentary overslip that will have to be managed by the driver.
A few notes about RACE mode: I approach this mode as a tool to go faster meaning that I think specifically about it when I go to WOT and I try to change or optimize my throttle application point and steering to help the computer do its job. It can do the job better than me but only if I give it good information. A specific example is how I unwind the steering wheel mid corner and as the corner opens up. When learning to drive on track it is good practice to automatically unwind the steering wheel as you apply throttle regardless of the vehicle response (a string tied from throttle toe to steering wheel is the analogy used by some instructors). The problem in RACE PTM is that by doing that you are telling the car you are ready to go straight. It will add power and drive you to a wider line. The best results are found by holding the wheel as steady as you can and pointing the car to corner exit only when it’s time. Obviously you have to be ready to correct for overslip but as you gain trust you will find this is required less often than it feels at first. It is very useful to practice using PTM in the lower modes where you can focus on letting the car go where you point it and not correcting your steering too early.
We find that the calibration settings that achieve the fastest lap times often result in expert drivers feeling like they are being held back slightly on corner exit. Most of the time that extra little bit of slip that an expert driver wants is over the traction peak of the tire and may feel good but is wasting forward acceleration. The restrictive feeling is not there as a safety net, rather, it’s as close as we can operate to the peak capability of the tire in a robust way.
Other notes: The eLSD “PTM mode” is only a slight alteration of its normal track mode. This alteration is required since it is likely to see engine torque values that would not occur without PTM. However, the philosophy of what it’s trying to do and how it’s controlling vehicle dynamics does not change between PTM and TCS/ESC OFF mode.
As for the nannies, that term is a big gray area. I would personally call TCS, PTM, ESC and active rev match nannies but would not call the eLSD or MR dampers nannies. ABS is very gray. ABS, TCS, PTM, ESC and active rev match are trying to do a better job of something you normally do as a driver, steering, throttle, brake or shifting. However, no driver ever controls a differential directly or a shock absorber directly. They are part of the base chassis tuning and can be thought of as a calibration component like a spring or anti roll bar.
ABS is more of a gray area but it is not allowed to be shut off because the capability of the vehicle is so limited without it. You may need 200 bar of brake pressure to get max decel from a wheel that’s on the outside of a corner but the inside wheel would be totally locked at 50 bar. Unless you want a lot of flat spotted tires you need ABS in that situation. Also, somewhat like eLSD and MR, individual wheel brake pressure is something even the best driver can’t physically control without the electronics.
That’s a long way of saying you can shut off TCS, PTM, ESC and active rev match but you can’t shut off MR, eLSD or ABS.
Z51 Specific Information
Transmission cooler using C7 Z06 parts:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AliZ51 asked:
Is it possible to install the C7 Z06 A8 secondary transmission cooler on a 2015 C7 Z51 A8? If yes, what would it take to get this done? If no, what can be done to bring extra cooling capacity to The Z51 A8 transmission?
Many 2015 C7 Z51 owners are dealing with transmission overheating issues on the track even in low ambient temperatures. The dealers are not able to help or address this issue. We know now that the 2016 Z51 will come with a secondary transmission cooler but what about us (2015 Z51 A8 owners). We do need a retrofit kit and instructions for the dealers for us who purchased the 2015 Z51 package in order to run on the track or spirited canyons drives.
Tadge answered:
One really good thing about the "Ask Tadge" section of the forum is that it focuses attention on issues where we can help customers. This question is a good example. The short answer is yes, the 2016 A8 cooling content can be retrofit on both the 2014 (A6) and '15 cars. You can use most of the production parts for 2016 with a few minor tweaks. Through our Performance Parts organization, we are putting together a kit with the needed material and instructions. It is not a super easy installation, but will be doable by the serious enthusiast. It should be available by the end of this year.
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Why do all the PDR videos published to date have a distinct green cast and overall washed-out look? The camera hardware/firmware must allow for better calibration of color balance and white balance. How about a firmware update to fix the problem?
Tadge answered:
This is a perfect example of continuous improvement and backwards compatibility that I was asked about a couple weeks ago. GM engineering and our partner Cosworth have been working hard to improve the PDR and the user experience. One area of investigation has been the image quality. Coincidentally, a software change was just released for Bowling Green production at the end of March and we will be making it available to customers who already have their cars in the next few weeks. The software includes several changes including improvements in color balance and sharpness of the image on the video.
His explanation from another thread, due to people inquiring is quoted below
Here's the TDLR (too long didn't read version):
Buy an AIM solo unit and run it in conjunction with a Smarty Cam.
Dump the data in Race Render, using one of the standard templates
This will get you potentially better data than I have, but at the expense of higher upfront cost.
Now here's the story behind my setup:
First you have to understand that my videos are a true labor of love. I've refined my videos & data logging over the last year with each event I participated in. I started very simple and every now and then I use my commute to work to experiment with camera angles, mic positions, file syncing, and data overlay (no laps of course, that's what subdivision are for ). My car looks very silly when I do this but I feel the finished product is worth it. Now on to the fun stuff…
What I'm using:
Android App: Torque App
Samsung S4 w/ 64GB microSD card
Front Camera: DriftHD w/ external mic mounted above license plate -->Link to Drift Website
In-car Camera: Kodak v570 (really old discontinued point & shoot)
OBDii Bluetooth reader: OBDLink MX Bluetooth Scan Tool --> Link to OBDii Scan Tools website
Qstarz BT-Q818XT 10Hz 66 Channel Bluetooth GPS Receiver --> Link to Amazon Link to Amazon
Overly Software: RaceRender 3 --> Link to RaceRender Website
X-factor: Patience and Testing, This is KEY
In the beginning, I used my phone’s internal GPS but it has as a resolution of about 1Hz (1 update/second). For laptimes I wanted a greater resolution so I purchased the 10Hz unit (10 updaes/second ala 0.1s level of accuracy) listed above. Originally I was using the ELM27 Bluetooth OBDii reader which worked fine but it had a limited refresh speed and the more channels of data I added the worse it performed. With the MX Bluetooth Scanner I’m running about 17 channels of data (OBDii & GPS speed, rpm, various temp sensors, knock retard, etc.) at a refresh rate of about 2.5Hz (2.5 updates/ second, ala 0.4s level of accuracy). If I ran a smaller number of channels I could run at almost 10Hz and match my GPS unit but that level of accuracy isn't really important to me right now. The screen shot of my video below displays most of the channels but there are a handful that I use for analysis and video syncing.
Final Thoughts:
I’m 30 and I’ve had my car for almost 3 years so I use the videos of my outings as kind of a digital scrap book and training materials. I think of them as a cross between an old school VHS video album and a poor man’s PDR. Know that my cameras are 3 generations behind the new stuff but they work great and I had them around. If I were to recreate my system today the only change I would make is to use 2 drift cameras because I would be able to start them simultaneously through 1 remote. Other than that my setup has been rock solid with no hardware/functionality issues.
If you made it this far through my ramblings I commend you. Don't hesitate to ask any questions about my setup or anything I've experience with my car. Good or bad. I picked my car up from the museum with 3 miles on it in Dec 2012 with a plan to drive it alot. I'm currently at 56K miles and so far I've tried Auto-X, Drag Racing, Skid-Pads, long Mountain Trips (900+ miles in 2 days), and of course track days. I'm a big believer in sharing good information and that is why I wrote this long thesis. Going to a racing school will probably be the best return on investment in becoming a better driver. The second is to simply increase your seat time and pay attention every opportunity you have to learn something no matter how insignificant. Lastly, manual Grand Sports are amazing cars and I would wager that they are probably more capable than 85% of the street cars that show up at track days. In the lower run groups where most drives are on street tires I tend to keep up with everything but Z06/ZR1's, GT3, Vipers level cars. Just my 0.02 cent
Last edited by KnightDriveTV; 03-31-2018 at 10:22 AM.
I don't want to clutter your new thread but are you planning on updating with some of the updates that are in this thread but not in the master? For instance, I've improved on 3 of my laps:
Summit Point - 1:50.0
VIR Full: 1:57.50
VIR Grand: 2:47.72
I have to begin the mountain climb of figuring out where he quit and start working forward. I'll get there. The list is going to improve though! Back like it was before, but even better!
02-28-2018, 06:29 PM
VIR Grand Course - TrackDaze 2017
