TopSpeedNeed

Went to Roebling Road Labor day weekend, there were 3 C7 Z06's there, one A8, my M7 and another A8. Sunday morning rumor spread quickly that a Z06 blew up. Long story short, found the guy, he let a friend who supposedly is a mechanic drive the car while he drove his GT3 RS, supposedly while on the track, the car went into limp mode and, according to him, every dash light came on, so he limped into the pits. By the time I got there, he said he thought the oil got into the coolant, and it overheated. So I am thinking he must have really overheated it to either blow a head gasket or something. This guy is in his late seventies, worth a ton of money, but not mechanically inclined, so he asked me to look at it. First thing I did was check the oil level, to see if there was any coolant mixed in the oil, or if it was low. Well, when I checked it, it was at least 3 quarts low, and no contamination. Looked under the car, no oil dripping from anywhere, no obvious oil leaks anywhere. At that point, he told me his "mechanic" had already added two quarts of oil before I got there, meaning the oil was at least 5 quarts low. He then explained that the dealership had just serviced his car before he went to the track. I believe what happened was some 7 dollar an hour kid, did the oil change, added 5 quarts of oil, saw that it bearly touched the bottom of the dipstick, and sent the car on the way. I started the car up to see how bad it sounded, and I have to tell you, I don't think I have ever heard anything that bad. It sounded like he wiped out every connecting rod bearing in the engine. It sounded like loose connecting rods slapping the crank. Turned it off, and told him it was toast. Don't know what he can do, yes the dealership didn't change the oil properly, however, I believe he is responsible to check the oil level before or at the track. Should be interesting to see how this turns out. By the way, he only had 2200 miles on the car.

thebishman

If he had just had the oil changed at the dealership prior to heading to the track, and if it wasn't leaking oil at that time, I'd say that the dealership is liable for the issue. It would have happened on the street; the road course just accelerated the 'disaster' IMHO.
Bish

davepl

Good luck proving how many quarts the dealer did install, however. I'd definitely go back to that dealership and say "Had my oil changed here yesterday, now all this stuff happened!".

Make me kinda glad I do my own oil changes. I don't think I'm smarter than the average certified GM Corvette Tech, but I just might be smarter than that $7/hour kid they have doing oil changes, if that's true!

Of course I once -was- a kid doing cheap oil changes, so they're not all bad :-)

Bill Dearborn

No way to know how full the oil was before the car went out on track. The best way to handle this is to take it to the dealer and tell them the engine failed and let them figure out why. There may have been something that went wrong that caused the oil level to drop while the car was on track. As for checking the level before going on track his statement is I brought it here for an oil change before the event and you changed the oil and said it was good to go.

Bill

TopSpeedNeed

I guess I deserved that. I once was a minimum hourly wage employee working at a gas station learning the automotive business. If it makes anyone feel better, one of my first embarrassing moments was when this gorgeous blonde teenage girl came into the gas station in a 66 VW bug, she was driving, I believe she had a car full of other kids in the car, I was 16 at the time, she asked me to check the water level in her radiator. After about 15 minutes of looking and hearing the laughter, I finally asked her where the radiator was, which caused them to laugh harder as they drove off... I guess my point is, that when you have a car such as ours or any car for that matter, where there is extenuating circumstances, such as 9.7 quarts of oil, as opposed to 5 quarts, someone would verify that 9.7 quarts were put back in the car before it was released back to the customer.

JoesC5

Here I am as a 16 year old kid doing oil changes(and I'm 74 now and still change my oil, I have two 4-post lifts in my garage), and have not screwed up an oil change during that 58 year period.

I worked for my Mom(that's her in the photo) after school and on weekends(she owned the ESSO station), and I would get more than fired if I screwed up an oil change.

soulsea

Any idea who his dealership was?

onargaroberts

The guy should check his service invoice and see how many quarts of oil he was charged for. The billing routines at a dealership are pretty good at charging for things that were used and not charging for things that weren't used.

TrackAire

That is a very cool photo, thanks for posting. Brings back a lot of memories when gas stations were actually service stations and could fix your car. Now they only fix your hunger and thirst....

Too bad about the C7 losing the engine, hopefully it will be covered under warranty and back on the track soon.

soulsea

Not sure who the organizer was labor day at RRR, but one things I learned pretty quickly through other people's mistakes after starting HPDE is that organizers that allow drivers to sign off their own tech sheet are doing them a huge disservice. Unless you are a qualified mechanic there is no more upside to signing your own car off than not being a doctor and giving yourself a physical and declaring yourself healthy ... sure it could be fun poking at your nether regions, but not particularly effective.

I know it's a pain in the *** to have to take your car to the dealer or to a qualified shop to get it signed off, and it costs a little bit of money, but it gives you the piece of mind that all the elements of the tech sheet have been inspected and cleared, and if something fails that should have been spotted though the inspection process you actually have cover from the person/company that signed the car off. Plus is it really worth saving a little time and a few bucks and just cross your fingers that everything is as it should be at 150mph and 1.5g after you've been using the same car to schlep groceries and impress the neighbors?

A good HPDE organizer would never allow you to sign off your own car ... to do so means that they only care about their minimum insurance requirements and not about your welfare, the welfare of your passengers, or the welfare of those that share the track with you. Either way, whether the organizer requires it or not, not only have your oil checked before a track event, but have everything on the tech sheet checked by the dealer or a qualified shop ... because preventable mechanical failures are a nuisance if the motor grenades, a lot worst things can happen by not taking the little time and effort to have the car checked out before putting everything under high pressure.

These cars are so capable, so fast, and so forgiving of driver errors, that it is really easy to get complacent ... please don't.

AORoads

^^^Very good points and rationale made!!!

TopSpeedNeed

Yes, the dealership is in Northeast Fl. I would rather not say who it was/is as to not bash a anyone unless I knew for absolutely sure that's how everything went down. If anyone here is contemplating having any work done in Northeast Fl and would like to PM me, I will tell you at that point, but again, all I know is what he told me, and have no proof that the dealership screwed up. For all I know, it may have been his personal mechanic that was with him that did the oil change. Not back pedaling at all, just hate to bash a dealership who potentially might have had nothing to do with it.

capevettes

I've always done my own oil changes. The first time I did not was the 500 mile oil change on my new Z. The dealer handled it well. Of course I checked the oil myself before I left. It just makes sense to check it after the dealership does an oil change. Then there is no guesswork as to how many quarts were put in the car. I also checked for leaks after I got home.

spearfish25

I'm sorry but tech inspection sheets absolutely should be able to be completed by a competent owner. The sheets generally check tire tread, lug torque, belts, leaks, brakes, and oil/coolant. If I had to take my car to the Chevy dealer for every tech inspection I'd go insane.

I just signed my own and did everything myself. Track pads, SRF fluid, 15w50 oil, diluted coolant, etc. my friend had his dealer sign off and was on street pads with OEM fluid and 5w30 oil. Whose car was better prepared?

soulsea

You do understand that extrapolating belief from your own experience is flawed right? This isn't about you specifically. You could be the most qualified mechanic in the world and a better driver than Senna and your reasoning is still incorrect ... there are two reasons for that ...

1. Most people that go to the HPDE as novices couldn't tell the difference between differential fluid and hand soap. Allowing them to self sign their own tech sheet is a recipe for disaster. Heck i used an impact wrench with ten times more torque that is recommended the first couple of times I went on track, you know cause the tighter the better. Thankfully I learned quickly before I exploded a hub assembly mid high speed corner.

2. Even if one is qualified to sign their tech sheet off and to make sure their car is track worthy, they should still take it to the dealer to make sure they sign it off, especially if their car is valuable. The reason isn't that the dealer knows more than you, the reason is that if something goes wrong you are indemnified. And yes check the oil level afterwards anyway cause a lot of them are idiots.

In the end it's not a 'I know what I'm doing' issue ... it's a safety issue. A driver has to exhibit a certain degree of skill, knowledge, ability, and situational awareness to get signed off to drive solo. Since there isn't such a procedure for allowing drivers to demonstrate that they are qualified to sign their car off, you and everyone else should demand that organizers make everyone get signed off by someone who knows what they're doing, even if you find it slightly vexing cause you're super knowledgable about your own car. Lest you find yourself in the crosshairs of another driver who also thinks that way about themselves but is actually just cheap and lazy.

ElCid79

I agree with Bill here,

There are LOTS of failures that could cause a hidden oil issue. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that they screwed anything up. It is certainly possible, and an engine teardown will sort that quickly. With that said, the car is warranteed. It was serviced the day prior. I imagine he won't be paying a penny for the repairs. Particularly, if he is as wealthy as claimed. He will just call his lawyer if there is any issue.

TrackAire

I respectfully have to disagree with you. The HPDE organization is going to be held responsible if they "tech" your car at the track and something happens. Most HPDE groups are just that, not full on national companies that are self insured but groups that buy insurance to be able to put on a track day. I run with 4 or 5 different groups and none tech the car themselves. They have tech forms and are very helpful if you should have any questions, etc.....especially for the beginner HPDE driver. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that an HPDE event would not be granted insurance if they insisted on teching the cars themselves at the track...if the car owner techs the car, it is on him only.

The Chevy dealership can examine your car, but it still is not on them if something goes wrong because they "tech" the car at the dealership. If something were to go wrong, their defense would be "it was fine here, but he has since drove it away so we don't know what he did between then and his situation on the race track". There are very few dealerships that I would trust to make my car HPDE ready....that is not what they are trained for and very few "get it" (thankfully Abel Chevrolet is near us). No dealership will sign a contract or agreement stating that if anything happens after you leave their premises when on the track, that they'll take responsibility for it. You touch the track, it is all on you.

I think the key is to educate the noobies to understand what needs to be done to the car before it touches the track. Can HPDE organizations do a better job there, absolutely. We all can always learn something, but this is one situation where personal responsibility has to come into play. When on the track, it's not just your life you need to protect, but the condition of your car can effect other lives too.

Unfortunately driving at high speeds on a race track has inherent risks....we know what they are and accept them. Taking every precaution to limit danger just makes sense. Giving the correct information on where and how to get your car tech'd or checked out for those that need it key.

For those that have doubts in their ability to tech their own car and don't trust the condition of it, there are companies that do track day car rentals that you can rent and just do an "arrive and drive" track day.

soulsea

You misunderstood what I am saying ...

I'm not talking or suggesting that the HPDE organizer inspect your car for you or instead of you, I'm talking about the HPDE organizer insisting that a participant gets their car's tech sheet signed off by a qualified shop before attending their event as opposed to being able to sign it themselves. Organizers like Hooked On Driving, Just Track It, and many others will let novice drivers that just bought a car off of a used car lot and who know nothing about mechanical elements of their vehicle sign off on their own tech sheet and send them off to the track. That just means that they are doing the bare minimum to adhere to their insurance requirements, but it does nothing to look out and protect those drivers, their passengers, and the other drivers on track. Again, mechanical integrity is just as important as driving skill when it comes to safety, some would argue even more important, and yet a DE organizer has a protocol in place to sign a driver off to drive solo but no protocol to ensure that someone who signs off on their own tech sheet is qualified to do so. Logic dictates that this is a great safety imbalance that add unnecessary risk that could be easily avoided.

I know some of you guys can inspect and maintain your car better than anyone else, but when you get on track you are adding additional risk by allowing anyone drive near you at speed just because they were able to purchase a car and self sign a tech sheet without ever giving it a second though. It's not a matter of protecting your car from yourself, it's a matter of protecting yourself and your car from anyone who has the high level of skill it required to sign a piece of paper.

You're obviously all free to participate at any event you want, but even though many of those organizers are personal friends I for one have stopped attending any HPDE where other participants are allowed to sign off their own tech sheet. And even if I were qualified to do so I still would get my car signed off by a dealer or qualified shop to cover my *** for the same reasons I buy track insurance. Just think about the situation described in the OP where the owner had his car serviced at the dealership before he went to the track. If he had just handed them the tech sheet and had them sign it they would have charged him another $50/$100 to do it but they would have zero ways to try and wiggle out of responsibility. Hopefully it's a standup dealer and thy'll make it right.

Like you said, tracking has its inherent risks, both physical and financial, I'm just one of those people that likes to stack the odds in my favor. It is beyond amazing to me the risks some people take just to save a few bucks, and that others are willing to drive at high speed next to people who'd rather save a few bucks over making sure that their vehicle is safe.

Dabigsnake

First, the parts dept at the dealership has to charge off how much oil they used. I can imagine them charging off 6 qts or so for a vette (not a Z06 w dry sump) and the min-wage techs don't check the level. Dry sump? what's that?? Duh? Start the engine to check the oil level? what da? Seems the parts dept actually pumps it up from their 55 gal drum into the fill can for them. My dealer changed the oil in my new High Country truck and double filled it. I made it only a mile of so when I saw the smoke bellowing out of my exhaust. My analytical brain kicked in, went back, demanding answers. I found that they had two techs doing oil changes and one had filled it, without the other knowing it, and the other one filled it again. Obviously neither checked the level? it happens. Point is, their is a paper trail to the amount of oil allocated and used within the dealership, or should be. Robeling road demands a full oil system with road racing pan or dry sump. It is brutal with that sweeping wide turn, carousel. Good luck

ZEEEE06

Did your Z overheat?