AVETTE

Calling all Track Rats, (you know who you are lol)

Well I have been VERY fortunate to have had some great instruction from the likes of an amazing professional race driver Jim Painter, and have taken hot laps with Andy Pilgrim, attended several driving schools, and have driven my 14 z51 stingray at various tracks around the country for the last couple of years. I have since traded to a 16 Z07 manual, (already installed secondary gmpp radiator) and have only gotten 2 track days at the NCM in October before it was time to shut the car down for the winter...

I have finally decided the time has come to buy a trailer. I live near Chicago but travel down to the NCM Motorsports park in BG (amazing track) and went to mid Ohio and Road America for the first time last year. I had tire issues several hours from home and I can no longer risk not being able to get home due to mechanical failure or issue on track. I am going with an open tilt type aluminum trailer with stone guard, tool box, and tire rack. What type of tie down straps/chains? do you recommend (easy to use and proper strength?). I will be leasing an F150 XLT (I have owned MANY sports cars but NEVER a truck and NEVER have I towed anything). Any must have features you would recommend on the truck as it pertains to towing? Which tow capacity should I go for? I also am leaning towards 16' length on the trailer as I want something light and easy to maneuver. I see the z06 is nearly 78 inches wide so I am concerned about trailer width seems like many of the trailers are 82 inches wide, is that wide enough? Also does it matter if trailer rims are 14 or 15 inch? I am looking at ALUMA and featherlite.

Also, I have the PDR and have downloaded Cosworth toolbox. Looks like a ton of great info, but HOW do I use all this data to learn how to improve my driving? In other words, is there a way to analyze this data to help me improve? One thing I notice in the video, I come way off the throttle during shifts (for a brief moment) I have heard about this 'no lift shift' but I am uncertain how this works in road racing as opposed to drag racing. I know I am supposed to be 'smooth' with my shifts, but I have never used the no lift shift approach (is that hard on the drivetrain, is it hard to do?).

Also, do any of you that specifically road race use the MGW shifter? If so, what do you think of it. It seems that sometimes under hard acceleration stock shifter its easy to miss a gear, maybe its just bad technique on my part? I have had trouble shifting on occasion up to third, almost like it binds up at times, other times no problem.

I know the car far exceeds my driving talent at this point, so any suggestions and thoughts are appreciated. I know many of you on this forum are excellent drivers and I look forward to any tips for an intermediate driver trying to get better. Thanks and happy new year to all of you and hope to see you on the track next year when the weather breaks....

KEZ06

I am in the process of putting together a similar setup for my interest in track experience. Can't help on driving techniques since I am similar in experience, but I know a bit about trucks. I think you will want more towing capacity than an F150. You might consider a diesel f250 or ram Cummins. I prefer the ram Cummins 6.7 with the mega cab myself. My step brother had a manual ram and loved how much he could tow with it.

Poor-sha

I'll chime in more later but on the trailer question there's a good thread going on just a few posts down here:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...n-trailer.html

Assuming an aluminum open trailer with all your stuff and a C7Z I'd plan on towing 6,000 lbs. The general rule is to only tow up to 75% of the rated capacity which means you want something rated to 7500-8000 lbs ideally. A friend of mine tows that same setup with an Ecoboost 2015 F-150 and he loves it. I just downsized my Duramax dually to a new F-150 with the 3.5L Ecoboost and 10-speed tranny as I've moved down to an open trailer as well.

peterjank

I think you will be fine hauling an open 16 foot aluminum trailer with an F150. I have towed various cars in an enclosed 20 foot steel trailer in the Chicago area for the past 11 years using standard three-quarter ton pickups (Nissan Titan and Chevy Silverado) without any problems.

As for recommended equipment on the truck, a controller for the trailer brakes, anti-sway assist, trailer mirrors (mirrors that extended outward), and a backup camera. I think anti-sway assist and backup cameras are standard equipment on most newer trucks.

I would also recommend installing an electric winch on your trailer and getting a tow hook for the front of your vette. Much safer to winch your car onto the trailer than drive it on. You might also want four 2x4's about 3 feet long. Very handy to place under the front wheels of your car to prevent scraping the splitter as you roll on and off the trailer.

As for tie-downs, I normally use ones that are rated to 3,000 pounds. For street cars, I normally feed a 2 foot tow strap through the spoke of each wheel, attach one end of a tie down to the two ends of the tow strap and the other end of the tie down to a recessed ring installed in the floor of the trailer. You may need to install your own rings in the floor of the trailer to get the mounting points exactly where you want them.

As for using the PDR data, I would watch the video to check your line. Are you hitting each apex and are using all the track at the exit?

If you are missing the apex, focus first on your turn in point. Work on being consistent. If you continue to miss the apex after you have developed a consistent turn in, try applying/releasing your brakes a little sooner to help the car turn in and get down to the apex.

If you are not using all of the road at the exit, you are probably over slowing the car at corner entry. Use less brake.

The PDR software will give you your minimum speed at each corner. From session to session, focus on raising those minimums, starting with the corner that leads onto the longest straight away.

Try to hook up with the Chicago Region of the SCCA if you have not already done so. They have a very active PDX group that runs at the Autobahn Country Club in Joliet four to six times per year.

You can also run on track with Midwestern Council at Blackhawk Farms in Beloit. They run six to eight HSAX events per year. Both organizations also offer ride along instructors at no additional charge during their events.

Painrace

Hey buddy! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! Party Hardy!

I will teach you no lift shift at the next NCM event. Nothing to it and I know with your skill level you will learn it fast. Keep the stock shifter.

Hook up with some SCCA guys in your area and talk about trailers and towing. Most know. Good used units are available in your area for sure.

Say hello to lovely wife for me. Looking forward to seeing you in 2017!

Jim

Painrace

Look at Kwik Load Trailers. sales@kwikload.com 903-893-7133
They are in Texas. You can get it delivered or go get it. You can stay at our house both ways if you go to get it.

Jim

Poor-sha

Much wisdom from Peter and Jim above. I'll add a few more things. First, I think 16' is too short and would consider 17.5' the minimum. You will need a little room in front and behind the car to actually ratchet the straps and if you have a winch you can only pull the car up but so far. Also remember that our tow hooks are offset to the right and most winches get installed in the center. You can't pull the car too close to the winch because of the side load.

As far as tie downs are concerned a lot of folks use the T-handle pieces that go in the slots in the frame and then run them to D-rings. I'm currently doing that but it can be a small annoyance to get your hand over the side rail of the trailer, under the carbon fiber side skirts, and then get them in those slots. Be careful of getting carbon fiber splinters as those suckers hurt! My first open trailer had boards bolted to the deck to raise the car up a bit so you could more easily get under the car.

Since the new trailer is going to have e-track I plan on trying the tie downs that go over the tire, through an idler and then to a ratchet. I'm hoping it will be easier to hook up than the T-hooks.

I have to carry the 6 ft race ramp extenders to get my C7Z up on the trailer without dragging the splitter. I'm at stock ride height and could probably go slightly shorter on the ramp extenders but it's not worth cutting it close. I do wish the trailer manufacturers would include longer ramps.

As far as data analysis goes, I always start the same way. Take your fastest lap and another fast lap and open them for comparison. Now look at the time delta in the chart and identify where you see big differences in time. For instance, if you see that on your fast lap you started pulling a delta on the other lap in turn 3, then go back and look at what you did in turn 3. Look at things like when you got off the brakes, when you got back to the gas, how much throttle you used, did you have to breathe off the gas? Also, speed at turn in, apex, and corner exit. This is so much easier to see in the data charts than in video and is one of the reasons why I'm frustrated with the toolbox. The video will show you if your line was substantially different and any external factors like another car blocking your line. The bing maps track map overlay is super nice for comparing lines.

Perform this exercise in both directions. You will likely see that even on your slower laps you will make up some time on the faster lap. Analyze why that was and be sure to try to think through the downstream and upstream effects. In other words, did I pick up time by braking later by then I lost it because I overcooked the next turn? Now do this with another fast lap and see if there are other areas for improvement. In effect, you want to build your best theoretical lap that is attainable.

If you go through this exercise make notes of the areas where you can gain time and about how much. The next time you go to the track work on these specific areas and try to consistently do them the best way you've done them in the past. In time that will become normal feeling and you can look for more.

Hope this helps. Maybe I'll do a post on this with screen shots.

Bill Dearborn

You definitely will need an 82 or 83 inch trailer. I had to change trailers after I got the Z because the front tires were right to the edge of the old trailer and the rear tires were sticking over the sides of the old trailer and it took 4 people to get it on and off the trailer to keep from damaging the car.

I do know from a length standpoint the car fits nicely on a 16 ft trailer that has a tire rack mounted across the front. My old trailer was a steel frame wood bed 16 ft trailer that weighed in at around 1800 lbs with the tire rack and 10 ft 2 long 2 section steel angle iron ramps. Gross trailer weight with the Z06 (with a full tank of gas), 4 wheels/tires in the tire rack came in at 5800 lbs. I positioned the car on the trailer so I had a tongue weight of 650 t0 700 lbs and used a 800 lb weight distribution hitch. I towed the setup with my 2003 AWD Tahoe that 3:73 towing gears. With a 7400 lb towing capacity and about 12K lb GVWR the Tahoe had no trouble moving the combination down the road or up steep hills.

If you go with a tilt aluminum trailer your trailer weight will probably be no more than what I had. That means you don't need to tow with a heavy duty pickup truck. A Tahoe, Yukon or Escalade will do nicely. If you want the extra length the Burb, Yukon XL or Escalade XL will give you plenty of storage while traveling. The Yukon Denali and the Escalades have the advantage of coming with the 6.2 L engine which can make towing even easier. When I first got my wood bed trailer I towed my 86 Vette behind a 91 Olds Bravada with the 4.3 L V6 and a massive 160 HP. I towed it for 6 years with that small SUV.

One thing I recommend you do based on my mistakes purchasing my new trailer is pay attention to the empty tongue weight of your trailer. Some designs push the trailer wheels to far to the rear and the tongue weight goes out of sight. My new trailer has an empty tongue weight that exceeds the gross rear axle weight rating of my Tahoe. To get around that I have to place the Z06 all the way to the rear of the 18 ft trailer I have and I might as well not have an 18 ft trailer since I have several feet of unusable space in front of the Z. If I want to make complete use of the trailer I need a 2500 series pickup. A 1500 series can't handle the tongue weight any better than the Tahoe which is basically a 1500 with a roof over the rear. I didn't make a lot of comparisons between various brand trucks but it seems to me since they pretty much compete equally that any 1500 GM or Dodge or F150 will have the same issue.

As for straps I use 10K lb (3000 lb working load) snap hook end straps hooked into T hooks under the car and D rings on the trailer. They hold the car in place very well. They do fatigue with exposure to the sun so you need to replace them every so often.

Another thing you should think about getting is a winch. It makes it a hell of a lot easier getting a car on trailer. No slipping of the clutch as you drive up the slope while others are telling you to go left, right, slow down, etc.

Bill

SBC_and_a_stick

I bought this car because it can do double duty as a daily and track weapon. I think hauling a Corvette is a waste of money. Why not go with a proper track car?

My input is to get AAA. They tow up to 200 miles once a year. Expect to break down hard once a year but plan for it with proper tow assistance and make a good service dealer connection that understands your intended use.

AVETTE

Jim, and all my other track brothers,

Thank you for such an amazing amount of invaluable information. Despite all the negativity in the news every single day about the state of the world, and people in general, people such as yourself definitely restore my faith in humanity. I truly appreciate all of your suggestions and Jim, what can I say, you are an amazing guy and both Julie and I are blessed to have been able to spend time with you. Thank you so much for all the incredible wisdom that you have given me both on track and for life in general. Sometimes on this forum, people engage in pettiness over this model car or that, or resort to insults, but it is threads like this that show us what the Corvette forum can and should be. Thank you all again! I did not find this hobby of road racing until very late in life, but one thing I noticed immediately was the quality of people it seems to attract. I am blessed to be able to do it and thankful to share your company. God Bless the USA

fleming23

Lots of very good advice already in this thread so I will just echo what many have already said.

However, regarding the driving and relying on AAA vs towing thing.... A track day/weekend is a **** load of money no matter your financial situation. Running a weekend with a premier group like Chin Motorsports is easily $600 for a Sat/Sun. Most stay at a hotel for a night or two so add another $100-200. If you use Lockton for track insurance there goes another $4-600. Fuel, general consummables, food, etc. makes a track event easily a $1000, often times close to $2k. I find that having a trailer full of tools, jacks, stands, etc. makes it less likely that I waste all those event fees due to something simple. Granted, there are always those at the track you can borrow stuff from but at some point it gets annoying asking for every tool in their box. Beyond that, having a shelter and place to escape the heat or cold makes having an enclosed trailer so much nicer! I used to come off track and immediately get into my tow vehicle with the A/C to try and cool and while escaping the sun and lack of shade. Sure I have an EZ up but that only goes so far.

I've driven the Z06 to the track, ran all day and drove home with not so much as a torque wrench in the car but I didn't really enjoy the experience. Now, everything I bring to the track is already loaded in the trailer so I literally only have to hook up and winch the car in and I'm ready to go, whether that is Road Atlanta an hour away or COTA 14 hours west.

SBC_and_a_stick

The only things I really need at the track are helmet, air pressure gauge, wrench to tighten the lugs, a bottle of engine oil, a funnel, and paper towels.

If the car overheats, there is nothing in the trailer that can help you. When the car broke down but was driveable in limp mode, I just drove it home and to the dealer the next day, and couldn't fix it myself anyway. When the car broke down big time I just towed it, and couldn't fix it myself anyway.

The trailer to me would only be useful in terms of pads/wheels/tires but I do pad/wheel/tire changes before I head out.


I use to carry a jack and all that but it was a waste of time. Between minor adjustments to tire pressure, topping off oil, tightening lugs and the actual problems (overheating, wire shorts, and others) there is nothing the trailer would have helped me do.

Does anyone price the trailer and what's on it? You would need a lifetime to recover that cost. The cost friend measure is always to drive there.

AVETTE

Having gone several years without one, I know that it is possible to go without a trailer. However I have had several track weekends ruined/lost simply because I cannot carry a spare rims and tires with me in the Corvette. Perfect example is went to Road America for the first time last year, Birthday weekend for me, loved it ran all day Saturday, inspected Sunday morning only to find my tires were corded on the inside I was 4 1/2 hours from home and replacement tires were nowhere to be found in a several hundred mile radius. and being a Sunday the whole day was lost. Had I simply had spare rims and tires with me (which I already own I wouldn't of had to sacrifice the entire day which is precious to me. Also taking 6 to 10 Hour drives and putting all those miles on the car instead of just taking it to the track on the trailer will definitely help come resell time. Nobody wants high mileage Corvettes. I did enjoy driving the car to and from the track, but because this is becoming a serious hobby for me it's time to move on. I am going with the least expensive route and an open trailer for multiple reasons of my own. SBC, I respect your point of view and went that way for a few years, but after several incidents I need the trailer at this stage. I will be able to carry a lot more with me, and I will venture out to tracks much farther away that I've been wanting to go to without putting all those miles on the Corvette. Finally, I can go with a very track oriented alignment and full race tires when I want to without regard to weather and fire wear from the street, that's just my reasoning and I was in the no trailer camp, I have never towed anything and have never driven a truck, just sports cars all my life

pkincy

If you are seriously driving the car in an HPDE there is always the possibility of breakage and it is nice to know you can easily get home. I support the trailer idea.

Like others, I say get the 18 foot. Very little extra money and you will be glad you did particularly after putting a tool box and winch up front.

On the truck. Check the differences in the 3/4 ton and the 1/2 ton vehicles. I towed an open trailer and a 3200 lb race car with a Silverado 1500 with a 5.3 motor. Not problem on towing power but the 1/2 ton has the 4L60 A4. And if I had towed the race car and trailer more than the 5 years I was racing, there is no way the tranny would have held up. So figure out what the weak link is and make sure you will be OK. Most of my competitors used 3/4 tons and also towed open trailers and our class was 3200 lb minimum weight. So I was pushing it.

SBC_and_a_stick

I hope I don't come off as insistent, this is an important topic for me to. I've been tossing around some ideas in my head, but not for a 'Vette but a formula like car.

The C7 takes a rear tire in the passenger seat and a front tire in the back and the hatch can close. Of course, this means no passenger unless they drive themselves but it's an option if you fear tire cording. Most tire shops on track around here also sell 18" slicks.

No doubt the trailer has advantages, but to me they are few and far between. If you can afford it, by all means. But as a cost saving measure? I ...don't think it adds up. That's my only point. If you don't have a truck already, that cost alone is ridiculous.

nrs

I have no doubt the 1/2ton trucks can easily tow the trailer and car, but you should look closely at the GCWR Gross Combined Weight Ratings of the tow vehicle. I found that it would be difficult to stay within this rating with a fully loaded trailer and cargo in the truck. The rated tow capacities on many trucks can't be reasonably attained without exceeding this number. An aluminum trailer would definitely help. Even though it will tow fine, you may be open for legal issues of "overloading" if you exceed the GCWR, and get into an accident.

If you do upgrade to a 3/4 T, then you can consider an enclosed trailer (they are heavier). This has the benefits of providing overnight vehicle security, protection from the elements during travel, able to run track tires, easier to permanently store tools and stuff, and the costs won't be much more than an aluminum open trailer. I bought a new 22' 10,000 lb axle rated enclosed trailer for $6800. Not many frills, but love the enclosed convenience. More difficult to tie down, due to the walls in close quarters. My no frills includes: race ramps, spare tire, winch. It's funny how much more I start to load in the trailer since I can store things in there (floor jack/stands, tool box, fluids, ezy-up, chairs, etc).

Z06PA

I would go with a 3/4 ton truck and an enclosed trailer. F250 diesel and a 20' trailer is ideal. You aren't going to fit spare tires/rims, tools, etc in a 16-18' trailer and be able to get around the car.

With a 3/4 ton diesel you will barely know it's there but 1/2 ton you'll know for sure.

Get a tongue weight scale and make sure you're within 10-15% of the total weight between trailer and car. There will be no issues if this is done right.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004MDW32E...e+weight+scale

For straps, get the 12 foot T hooks and go into the frame.

https://www.autohaulersupply.com/cat...color-5206.php

Handles.

https://www.autohaulersupply.com/cat...-hook-4567.php

Depending on trailer if you get handles with straps on them the handles may end up under car in the front and it'll be hard to use the ratchet so I used these with the hooks right on the handle.

Set the straps in the frame before putting car in trailer and use wire ties to tie it to front grill and rear difuser vents, it'll be a lot easier to hook straps up to ratchets once in the trailer.

You will also need some boards about 4' long so that the front of the car doesn't hit the ramp on the trailer.

Crisscross the straps in the front and rear towards D rings.

Set the car in the trailer and get the tongue weight right. Leave transmission in neutral and snug the straps. Release e-brake and tighten the straps then put the e-brake back on and leave the transmission in neutral. The car will not move at all.

I trailered my Z 800 miles from PA to Chicago with zero issues doing it this way..

AVETTE

SBC,
no worries, everyone has to do what is best for them. I am lucky that my wife enjoys going to track events with me, and we often go out afterwards. That wouldn't be happening with minimal luggage while trying to put rims and tires in the car. I'm glad it's working for you, believe me I have tried to resist going down this road, but now I see why so many choose that path. As others have stated, this is a costly sport anyway, a one time expense for an open trailer won't be that bad, I can lease the truck for around 290 a month and I am going to use it as a daily driver since my current sedans lease is about up, my payment will actually go down from what I am paying now. Do what's best for you, but I can clearly see why I and others are going this route. Best wishes and see you on track....

Painrace

Agree, Tony. A couple of years ago at VIR there were 7 cars that had been driven to the track that could not be driven home Sunday afternoon. I hope that never happens to you but it is a real pain in the butt if it ever does. Twice in my racing career we have left what was left of the car at the track because it was destroyed. it can happen and you are a fast driver. You have quick reflexes and are getting quicker. But, **** happens like the guy blowing an engine at the tower on the front straight at VIR in front of me. It was a wild ride. Did not hit anything but the guy that blew the engine did. For the few thousand $$ it will cost you it is good insurance and piece of mind.

Jim

AVETTE

So true! Thanks for the insights