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Let's talk Ported TP, X-pipe, CAI/filter with NO TUNE

Old 03-31-2017, 02:21 PM
  #1  
phantasms
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Default Let's talk Ported TP, X-pipe, CAI/filter with NO TUNE

Hey guys,

This topic has been beaten to death but maybe hasn't quite gotten the specific focus it could. Now that a lot of people are jumping on the Ported TB boat because of the great Tony M reviews I think many people may be asking the same question as I am. Is it ok to run Xpipe, PTB, and CAI with no tune? For my own selfish reasons let's focus on the 15' and 16' years because it seems that the 17' stock tune may be less friendly to these types of mods.

I've currently got a Borla X-pipe, Katech PTB (With Tony M on order), and a Haltech CAI sitting in the box. I ran the three items above last summer and the car ran great and very hard until sometimes it didn't where it was clearly losing power after some hard runs. Due to this I took the CAI off but haven't been to the track since. The car was night and day stronger with the CAI and I miss the extra grunt. Recent revelations have me thinking maybe it was just air in the coolant lines which killed the power and not some timing pull condition.

I know one or two members were going to get this combo tested on a dyno but to my knowledge it didn't happen for various reasons. I know some guys run all of the above and pulleys but I'm not exactly into that. I don't want COT to make it safe....I want it to be running well and good within the stock tables.

As it stands now I have a few options.

1. Throw the Haltech back on if I can ever get Jim to send me a new seal (is he ok btw?).
2. Order a AFE CAI with the low flow filter. Would pushing less CFM than the Haltech make the combo more likely to work?
3. Get a green filter or AFE dry filter in the OEM unit. Frankly I'm half on the boat that the filter change is snake oil.
4. Leave it be! We all know it's not going to be number 4 so even if you're feeling number 4 vote for something else.

Other variables are I live at essentially sea level and I really drive the car. I think some guys get mods and then hammer it once a Sunday and are like "yeah the combo works". This car puts the power down every day many times a day.

Needless to say I'm not tuning it for all the wildly obvious reasons. I just want to make sure to take advantage of all the "tune free" hp/tq I can get my hands on. I know some guys say even a CAI alone is no good and too lean but then there are plenty of people who have been running CAIs for years with no issues. I'm looking for the opinion of the moderates that are down with CAIs in general but think putting NOS, 2 pulleys, headers, and a KB without a tune are taking it a little too far. I'd love to get it on a dyno with AFR info but as I live in NY there aren't a thousand good shops around me like the rest of you. It seems you get good air or you get good tuning shops.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Best,
Gene
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Old 03-31-2017, 02:54 PM
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I am currently running the combo you refer to in your post.

Halltech intake
Corsa X-pipe
Mamo ported TB
Axleback exhaust

I posted not too long ago that I switched to the 2017 blower lid and on the dyno my car was reporting conditions which were too lean for my liking. I removed the intake to keep the 2017 lid but recently, as in last week, swapped the lid back to the stock 16 and put my Halltech back on. I intend to go back to the dyno soon to see how this combo reports. I've never had any issue and I run my car pretty hard, and I'm not talking about on the street hard like some people claim. If I dyno the car again and the air fuel is still 13+, the intake will come off for good and be sold.

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Old 03-31-2017, 03:11 PM
  #3  
Steven Bell
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Gene,

I have a full Corsa Extreme exhaust, a Halltech CAI, and a Throttle Body spacer. Yesterday I ordered a ported throttle body from WeaponX. It should arrive next week and then will get immediately installed.

I'll let you know how things go.

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Old 03-31-2017, 03:15 PM
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OP "I don't want COT to make it safe....I want it to be running well and good within the stock tables."

From what I have seen with a wideband, COT kicks in at WOT and elevated rpm's regardless of what you do with the stock tune.

Install a wideband and measure to see what you are really dealing with.

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Old 03-31-2017, 03:25 PM
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anything that increases airflow will deffinetly require a tune I know afe has the non oiled intake that you could get away with but my dealer told me me exhaust stuff isn't a problem with warranty just a tune and mods that can cause failure so really my pov is if you want more then exhaust just say f#ck it a go for a good tuned setup it'll be a lot sweeter in the long run I think

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Old 03-31-2017, 05:27 PM
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I have a side question, will a drop in green filter and ported TB void a warranty? And would you need a tune for running that combo? My Z is currently bone stock with a Borla Xpipe
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Old 03-31-2017, 05:57 PM
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I have a 2016 A8 C7Z that has been running CAI, TRIC and torco..

i dyno'd it stock with 93 unl.
And also dyno'd it after the above mods..

the AFR leaned by 0.8 points after the CAI
& torco were added.

I have recently added the Borla X and the Mamo PTB and I am going back for another dyno tomorrow to get it (AFR and power) checked out again... I will post and report my findings.
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Old 03-31-2017, 06:04 PM
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Good thread.

I have an x-pipe and a green filter that will be going on once the weather shapes up.

I too wanna know if a tune is necessary. Don't want to void the warranty for such minor mods. If that's the case, might as well go all out then lol
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Old 03-31-2017, 06:06 PM
  #9  
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Originally Posted by wagoetzmann View Post
OP "I don't want COT to make it safe....I want it to be running well and good within the stock tables."

From what I have seen with a wideband, COT kicks in at WOT and elevated rpm's regardless of what you do with the stock tune.

Install a wideband and measure to see what you are really dealing with.
fyi, COT begins kicking in at 5250 rpm (this is where it begins to richen the AFR)... (on the stock tune)...
it continues to get richer until about 6250 when it reaches its "maximum enrichened AFR" then stays steady from there on up.
This "excessive richness" hurts power.

So, WOT is not the only trigger that causes COT to kick in... just for clarification.
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Old 03-31-2017, 06:31 PM
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I don't track my 15 Z A8 just like spirited driving. I'm not looking to tune my car either.
I did the Tony Mano TB and drove for a few hundred miles, I felt the the difference in throttle response and more power. I then did the Borla X pipe, a week later, car was definitely louder in sport mode and felt a bit stronger and nice and quiet without drone in touring, no drone in S or Track mode.
I then installed the AFE, a week after the X pipe, which comes with the high flow oiled filter and the lower flow dry filter. I installed the oiled filter, started the car and got a check engine light, code P228 and code P227 , barometric pressure sensors, no clue what that is since I'm new to this technology. Car was also running lean.
I reset the chk eng light and drove 100 miles and stopped at my dealer to get oil changed and NY inspection, car failed because of oxygen sensor reading. Drove home and installed my stock CAI and car now passed inspection after putting on 100 miles which help recalibrate the MAF sensor. Car showing no codes.
Today I reinstalled the AFE with the dry filter and got no codes and car was not running lean, well within parameters. I couldn't go for a spirited drive because its raining here but I will on Sunday and give you my views.

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Old 03-31-2017, 07:11 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Joetib07 View Post
I have a side question, will a drop in green filter and ported TB void a warranty? And would you need a tune for running that combo? My Z is currently bone stock with a Borla Xpipe
From what many others have said on here those 3 mods will not void your warranty....and I hope that's the case because those are the first 3 things I'm doing when mine gets here in the next couple of weeks.
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Old 03-31-2017, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by george vee View Post
I don't track my 15 Z A8 just like spirited driving. I'm not looking to tune my car either.
I did the Tony Mano TB and drove for a few hundred miles, I felt the the difference in throttle response and more power. I then did the Borla X pipe, a week later, car was definitely louder in sport mode and felt a bit stronger and nice and quiet without drone in touring, no drone in S or Track mode.
I then installed the AFE, a week after the X pipe, which comes with the high flow oiled filter and the lower flow dry filter. I installed the oiled filter, started the car and got a check engine light, code P228 and code P227 , barometric pressure sensors, no clue what that is since I'm new to this technology. Car was also running lean.
I reset the chk eng light and drove 100 miles and stopped at my dealer to get oil changed and NY inspection, car failed because of oxygen sensor reading. Drove home and installed my stock CAI and car now passed inspection after putting on 100 miles which help recalibrate the MAF sensor. Car showing no codes.
Today I reinstalled the AFE with the dry filter and got no codes and car was not running lean, well within parameters. I couldn't go for a spirited drive because its raining here but I will on Sunday and give you my views.
Wait the AFE oiled filter made you throw codes?
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Old 03-31-2017, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ACS55 View Post
I have a 2016 A8 C7Z that has been running CAI, TRIC and torco..

i dyno'd it stock with 93 unl.
And also dyno'd it after the above mods..

the AFR leaned by 0.8 points after the CAI
& torco were added.

I have recently added the Borla X and the Mamo PTB and I am going back for another dyno tomorrow to get it (AFR and power) checked out again... I will post and report my findings.
Will you dyno with and without the torco? Pretty please!!!
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Old 03-31-2017, 08:28 PM
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Gene,

I too would love to see actual data on the variables that affect how far you can lean out the car using the stock program before throwing a code. Loss of warranty from a tune is the one thing preventing me from diving in and going full tilt with bolt-ons (ported blower, mid-length headers, ported tb, x-pipe, exhaust, intake, pulley, and e85). I wish they were more mod friendly like Ford (or supported more factory performance upgrades like Ford). While I am not advocating fraud, I think GM has become too heavy handed re: dealing with mods. If DiabloTune was more flexible with these mods, I would buy their tuner as it would be nice to not face warranty denial for a simple checksum when the failure and modification may have nothing to do with each other.
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Old 03-31-2017, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by phantasms View Post
Will you dyno with and without the torco? Pretty please!!!
Um, I don't have two tanks with a switchover valve.. :-)

But seriously, how could octane booster affect the AFR??
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Old 03-31-2017, 08:35 PM
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Great thread! I currently run all of the mods (Except the ported TB) plus the TRIC. Im thinking I just want to go ahead and tune the car to get the the maximum impact/effect of the mods. Not too worried about what dealer will say. I had a Chuck Cow tune done on my C6Z with ZERO issues so I will probably go in the same direction and perhaps add a ported TB while Im at it.

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Old 03-31-2017, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Blvdbrawler View Post
Great thread! I currently run all of the mods (Except the ported TB) plus the TRIC. Im thinking I just want to go ahead and tune the car to get the the maximum impact/effect of the mods. Not too worried about what dealer will say. I had a Chuck Cow tune done on my C6Z with ZERO issues so I will probably go in the same direction and perhaps add a ported TB while Im at it.
I honestly think im leaning towards tune as well.. I do want to wait 2-3k miles to break it in and make sure it isn't burning oil or anything irregular
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Old 03-31-2017, 09:28 PM
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Default To the OP:

To the OP: I don't think it's a good idea to put all kinds of bolt ons on a C7 (and especially the Z) and think that it's "OK" because it's

"ONLY BOLT ONS"..... While exhaust mods can add some power, they have little effect on the tuning when

compared to the potentially significant changes to the AFR and (for the automatic guys) the behavior of the trans

when changes are made to the intake or throttle body without logging and re-tuning as necessary.

With the cost of exhausts and even 5 and 600 dollar intakes now a days, the potential gains from those

mods is minimal, especially when not properly re-tuned and in my opinion hardly worth the trouble.

In other words, my suggestion would be to either TUNE THE CAR with NO MODS which will change it dramatically....

or bite the bullet and add the mods WITH the intention of tuning it.... I think you would be much better off

if the longevity and durability of the car was your concern. Secondly, if you're after performance, putting parts on the

car WITHOUT TUNING is silly because the potential gain is far less than the benefits of tuning alone.


I realize that there are always people that don't consider tuning for fear of warranty issues, but but quite realistically.....

Most of us in the business of tuning tune many more vehicles that are between 1-3 years new (and still warrantied)

than all of the vehicles out there that are OVER 3 years old and no longer warrantied.

In other words, our biggest customer base of "tuning customers" is for BRAN NEW cars.

Sadly too many people get freaked out over warranties and don't tune their cars when the vast majority of people

do it and there are virtually never ever and problems.

That's just my 2 cents.....
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Old 03-31-2017, 09:44 PM
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Default Will GM get picky if they have to replace an engine under warranty?

There is little doubt (in my mind) that an aftermarket "OEM replacement" air filter like a K&N, etc., in the stock housing from any of the various manufacturers will not void the warranty but other stuff may cause issues.

Example: Now you go "modifying" the factory throttle body or the exhaust system by removing the factory x-pipe/rear cats or even changing the factory cold air intake system to one that has not received approval, then you "may" have a problem with GM covering a OEM warranty replacement. These "Bolt-on" are all connected to engine operation, right?

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Old 03-31-2017, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by RobGZ06 View Post
Wait the AFE oiled filter made you throw codes?
Yes it did, I had no issues until I installed it.
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