More Z06 intake testing and R&D....
05-28-2017, 03:24 PM
#261
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I wonder if you would have gotten the code with our drop in and stock tuning. I have a feeling not.
Anyway, you car with water/meth, the lower pulley, Haltech intake and cold air ducting, various other mods, not really our target demo for the BMS drop in. Although I'm 95% confident you'd make the same power with our drop in as you do with your current intake. But hardly worth changing at this point given the steep intake depreciation on the resale market these days and cutting already done to fit what you have.
But post some logs when time permits. From those I can give you tuning pointers, or one of these days we can meet up on a dynojet to evaluate and tweak it!
Anyway, you car with water/meth, the lower pulley, Haltech intake and cold air ducting, various other mods, not really our target demo for the BMS drop in. Although I'm 95% confident you'd make the same power with our drop in as you do with your current intake. But hardly worth changing at this point given the steep intake depreciation on the resale market these days and cutting already done to fit what you have.
But post some logs when time permits. From those I can give you tuning pointers, or one of these days we can meet up on a dynojet to evaluate and tweak it!
I hear you Terry, not really worried about resale, but would not mind hitting the dyno just for fun, as well as backing up some of my #s on a different dyno...
05-28-2017, 03:54 PM
#262
Burning Brakes
My 17 is code free so far with BMS and I just checked it with HPT and nothing pending. Knocking on wood !
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Shinobi'sZ (05-29-2017)
05-28-2017, 04:02 PM
#263
Burning Brakes
"What the P0106 code means
P0106 is the general code for a problem with the MAP circuit having problem of incorrect voltage output range or an issue with engine performance. The MAP sensor is an integral part of the fuel injection system and provides signals to the Engine Control Unit (ECU) for smooth operation and good fuel economy along with proper performance and power.
What causes the P0106 code?
The MAP circuit for range and performance problem may have several causes:
The source of the problem is that the MAP sensor range voltage output is incorrect and out of the programmed input required by the ECU.
The most common problem is an air intake system vacuum or intake hose being loose, cracked, or missing it’s plastic fittings and clamps."
Since it went away with the stock box, sounds like a minor air leak somewhere.
Glad you got it resolved.
P0106 is the general code for a problem with the MAP circuit having problem of incorrect voltage output range or an issue with engine performance. The MAP sensor is an integral part of the fuel injection system and provides signals to the Engine Control Unit (ECU) for smooth operation and good fuel economy along with proper performance and power.
What causes the P0106 code?
The MAP circuit for range and performance problem may have several causes:
The source of the problem is that the MAP sensor range voltage output is incorrect and out of the programmed input required by the ECU.
The most common problem is an air intake system vacuum or intake hose being loose, cracked, or missing it’s plastic fittings and clamps."
Since it went away with the stock box, sounds like a minor air leak somewhere.
Glad you got it resolved.
Last edited by onfire; 05-28-2017 at 04:03 PM.
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Shinobi'sZ (05-29-2017)
05-29-2017, 10:45 AM
#264
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I’ve had the BMS filter in my stock ’17 Z51,M7 for 116 miles(3 days).Here is my short term evaluation.
First a couple of disclaimers.(1)I don’t know Terry and never heard of his company until this thread.He asked for two testers,I volunteered and he sent me a filter.(2) As a Nascar racer & test driver,I evaluate cars and their performance based on “feel” or as some call it “seat-of-the-pants”.I’ve been doing this for 30+ years.I race/test on ovals & road courses.I do not do any drag racing.
A local parts house gave me a K&N filter to use to visually compare it’s construction against the OE & BMS filters.
First,the OE.It was the lightest of the 3 filters.It appeared to me that if the OE didn’t have the plastic gage inside,it might collapse under repeated,long term,hard use.The pleats looked a little irregular in spots.Made in Thailand.
Second,the K&N.It was the heaviest of the 3 and the least flexible.It looked well made and had the widest space between pleats.Some pleats were irregular as well,but not many.Made in USA.
Third,the BMS.It arrived dry & clean.Very well made and was very flexible.The space between pleats were narrower than the K&N and the large end had a narrower base lip than the other two.Made in USA.
Since my eval is not scientific,this is my “feel” for the filter.
Power delivery felt smoother and accel felt crisper.At WOT the power also seemed to come up a little quicker.
Going up a steep incline was a little easier and the recovery from off cruise control to back on was quicker.All of these observations were made at Interstate speeds of 75+ and on interstate ramps where I could get to WOT safely.
I really like the BMS filter and I will recommend it to my C7 friends.I have offered to either pay Terry for it or return it.He declined both and thanked me for being 1 of the 2 testers.
I’m glad to have found this quality product.
Here again,this was my eval based on how it “felt” to me in my 5 month old,stock ’17 Z51 M7.
NO CEL’s at any time.
Pics:White=BMS,Yellow=OE,Red=K&N.
\db2
First a couple of disclaimers.(1)I don’t know Terry and never heard of his company until this thread.He asked for two testers,I volunteered and he sent me a filter.(2) As a Nascar racer & test driver,I evaluate cars and their performance based on “feel” or as some call it “seat-of-the-pants”.I’ve been doing this for 30+ years.I race/test on ovals & road courses.I do not do any drag racing.
A local parts house gave me a K&N filter to use to visually compare it’s construction against the OE & BMS filters.
First,the OE.It was the lightest of the 3 filters.It appeared to me that if the OE didn’t have the plastic gage inside,it might collapse under repeated,long term,hard use.The pleats looked a little irregular in spots.Made in Thailand.
Second,the K&N.It was the heaviest of the 3 and the least flexible.It looked well made and had the widest space between pleats.Some pleats were irregular as well,but not many.Made in USA.
Third,the BMS.It arrived dry & clean.Very well made and was very flexible.The space between pleats were narrower than the K&N and the large end had a narrower base lip than the other two.Made in USA.
Since my eval is not scientific,this is my “feel” for the filter.
Power delivery felt smoother and accel felt crisper.At WOT the power also seemed to come up a little quicker.
Going up a steep incline was a little easier and the recovery from off cruise control to back on was quicker.All of these observations were made at Interstate speeds of 75+ and on interstate ramps where I could get to WOT safely.
I really like the BMS filter and I will recommend it to my C7 friends.I have offered to either pay Terry for it or return it.He declined both and thanked me for being 1 of the 2 testers.
I’m glad to have found this quality product.
Here again,this was my eval based on how it “felt” to me in my 5 month old,stock ’17 Z51 M7.
NO CEL’s at any time.
Pics:White=BMS,Yellow=OE,Red=K&N.
\db2
05-29-2017, 11:14 AM
#265
Pro
Nice to hear many '17 owners are having no issues on stock tunes. I will be watching this closely as I would like to grab one of these before the fall when I head to the track for some hero 1/4 mile runs.
05-29-2017, 01:13 PM
#266
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"What the P0106 code means
P0106 is the general code for a problem with the MAP circuit having problem of incorrect voltage output range or an issue with engine performance. The MAP sensor is an integral part of the fuel injection system and provides signals to the Engine Control Unit (ECU) for smooth operation and good fuel economy along with proper performance and power.
What causes the P0106 code?
The MAP circuit for range and performance problem may have several causes:
The source of the problem is that the MAP sensor range voltage output is incorrect and out of the programmed input required by the ECU.
The most common problem is an air intake system vacuum or intake hose being loose, cracked, or missing it’s plastic fittings and clamps."
Since it went away with the stock box, sounds like a minor air leak somewhere.
Glad you got it resolved.
P0106 is the general code for a problem with the MAP circuit having problem of incorrect voltage output range or an issue with engine performance. The MAP sensor is an integral part of the fuel injection system and provides signals to the Engine Control Unit (ECU) for smooth operation and good fuel economy along with proper performance and power.
What causes the P0106 code?
The MAP circuit for range and performance problem may have several causes:
The source of the problem is that the MAP sensor range voltage output is incorrect and out of the programmed input required by the ECU.
The most common problem is an air intake system vacuum or intake hose being loose, cracked, or missing it’s plastic fittings and clamps."
Since it went away with the stock box, sounds like a minor air leak somewhere.
Glad you got it resolved.
I spoke with a GM tech from Sema who was involved in the programming of the 17 Z, and he basically said that there is a range/limit that is set as to how much air the MAP sensor can see, simply put, go out of that range enough and long enough, it will set the code...
Yes, it's possible I had a leak, but the car ran and idled GREAT till I hit the top of 4th, then the code would set. swap back to stock intake, no code...
Also tune out the code and ad more fuel for the pulley and intake, again, car runs and idles great, we found no air leak...
It's been seen that some, I repeat some 17s seem to have more "sensitivity" to variations in air flow...
At this point I'm SUPER happy with the car and the way it runs, better and smoother then stock, no lag, and about 120 more HP!!
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onfire (05-29-2017)
05-29-2017, 02:24 PM
#267
Burning Brakes
I spoke with a GM tech from Sema who was involved in the programming of the 17 Z, and he basically said that there is a range/limit that is set as to how much air the MAP sensor can see, simply put, go out of that range enough and long enough, it will set the code...
Yes, it's possible I had a leak, but the car ran and idled GREAT till I hit the top of 4th, then the code would set. swap back to stock intake, no code...
Also tune out the code and ad more fuel for the pulley and intake, again, car runs and idles great, we found no air leak...
It's been seen that some, I repeat some 17s seem to have more "sensitivity" to variations in air flow...
At this point I'm SUPER happy with the car and the way it runs, better and smoother then stock, no lag, and about 120 more HP!!
Yes, it's possible I had a leak, but the car ran and idled GREAT till I hit the top of 4th, then the code would set. swap back to stock intake, no code...
Also tune out the code and ad more fuel for the pulley and intake, again, car runs and idles great, we found no air leak...
It's been seen that some, I repeat some 17s seem to have more "sensitivity" to variations in air flow...
At this point I'm SUPER happy with the car and the way it runs, better and smoother then stock, no lag, and about 120 more HP!!
MAP sensors measure pressure....that code is a little confusing...i wonder if the ecm is comparing the maf flow to expected map readings ?
05-29-2017, 02:35 PM
#268
Burning Brakes
"The PCM looks for any change in manifold pressure to be preceded by a change in engine load in the form of changes in throttle angle, engine speed, or Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) flow. If the PCM doesn't see any of these factors change while detecting a rapid change in MAP value, it will set a P0106."
That makes more sense. The ecm is comparing load to expected map pressure. If the maf was under/over reporting outside the limits it would not correspond to the map pressure reading. So if you had a leak after the maf, the load calc would be too low for the corresponding map pressure and set a p0106. Sounds like there is a limit to "tricking" the maf signal to lean out the mixture or you had a minor leak after the maf somewhere.
That makes more sense. The ecm is comparing load to expected map pressure. If the maf was under/over reporting outside the limits it would not correspond to the map pressure reading. So if you had a leak after the maf, the load calc would be too low for the corresponding map pressure and set a p0106. Sounds like there is a limit to "tricking" the maf signal to lean out the mixture or you had a minor leak after the maf somewhere.
Last edited by onfire; 05-29-2017 at 02:36 PM.
05-29-2017, 03:54 PM
#270
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"The PCM looks for any change in manifold pressure to be preceded by a change in engine load in the form of changes in throttle angle, engine speed, or Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) flow. If the PCM doesn't see any of these factors change while detecting a rapid change in MAP value, it will set a P0106."
In the case of the BMS filter, it's been pretty well explained that the larger filter base changes the air flow around the MAF sensor, causing it to read lower than normal. There also may be higher manifold pressure at a lower throttle position.
05-29-2017, 06:02 PM
#271
Just installed this filter over the weekend on my 2017 M7, the only other mods are borla x-pipe and Mamo throttle body - Car runs really strong, I made many fully throttle pulls into 4th. Very happy.
05-29-2017, 06:11 PM
#272
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What did your tuner do to eliminate the code ? Is it just not reporting a SES light even though it is sensing airflow beyond it's limits ?
MAP sensors measure pressure....that code is a little confusing...i wonder if the ecm is comparing the maf flow to expected map readings ?
MAP sensors measure pressure....that code is a little confusing...i wonder if the ecm is comparing the maf flow to expected map readings ?
Yes, I'm sure it's well beyond the expected and allowable reading/range with Pulley and all, and we are fueling it just fine, and the computer no longer reports it nor throws it into reduced power. I run it right to redline now, ALL GOOD!
I agree, it can be confusing, but that code and the Map do account for a few things...
05-29-2017, 06:15 PM
#273
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Something is different on the 17s, and my car would pull VERY nicely till about 137 MPH in forth, then it would happen almost every time.
Yes, you're right, unless you go to the road course or drive back mountain road in Mexico like me, and have a need to pull to the top of forth, it may not happen...
I did run the K&N drop in on my car with no problems, so the tube could be part of the problem...
05-29-2017, 06:22 PM
#274
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"The PCM looks for any change in manifold pressure to be preceded by a change in engine load in the form of changes in throttle angle, engine speed, or Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) flow. If the PCM doesn't see any of these factors change while detecting a rapid change in MAP value, it will set a P0106."
That makes more sense. The ecm is comparing load to expected map pressure. If the maf was under/over reporting outside the limits it would not correspond to the map pressure reading. So if you had a leak after the maf, the load calc would be too low for the corresponding map pressure and set a p0106. Sounds like there is a limit to "tricking" the maf signal to lean out the mixture or you had a minor leak after the maf somewhere.
That makes more sense. The ecm is comparing load to expected map pressure. If the maf was under/over reporting outside the limits it would not correspond to the map pressure reading. So if you had a leak after the maf, the load calc would be too low for the corresponding map pressure and set a p0106. Sounds like there is a limit to "tricking" the maf signal to lean out the mixture or you had a minor leak after the maf somewhere.
95% sure there was no leak, even tested both front and rear Map sensors while checking for leaks prier to making the decision to tune...
Yes, I believe the 17s are more limited as to how far out of the expected range they will let you go before the code is set...
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onfire (05-29-2017)
05-29-2017, 08:01 PM
#275
Burning Brakes
Something is different on the 17s, and my car would pull VERY nicely till about 137 MPH in forth, then it would happen almost every time.
Yes, you're right, unless you go to the road course or drive back mountain road in Mexico like me, and have a need to pull to the top of forth, it may not happen...
I did run the K&N drop in on my car with no problems, so the tube could be part of the problem...
It could even be a rate of change through the maf that is not equaling an "expected load" by the Maf. Is the Halltech MAF location the same ID as the Factory tube ? If not that could speed up or slow down the load rate of change.
When I get a chance I will compare the 2016 to 2017 ECM tunes with HPT. Others have and only saw the Timing/AIT table difference.
05-29-2017, 10:13 PM
#276
Former Vendor
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Last edited by Terry@BMS; 05-30-2017 at 11:10 AM.
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jbsblownc5 (05-29-2017)
05-29-2017, 11:43 PM
#277
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Did you ever run the K&N to 137 without triggering the code ?
It could even be a rate of change through the maf that is not equaling an "expected load" by the Maf. Is the Halltech MAF location the same ID as the Factory tube ? If not that could speed up or slow down the load rate of change.
When I get a chance I will compare the 2016 to 2017 ECM tunes with HPT. Others have and only saw the Timing/AIT table difference.
It could even be a rate of change through the maf that is not equaling an "expected load" by the Maf. Is the Halltech MAF location the same ID as the Factory tube ? If not that could speed up or slow down the load rate of change.
When I get a chance I will compare the 2016 to 2017 ECM tunes with HPT. Others have and only saw the Timing/AIT table difference.
As far as what shows on HPT, there may very well be some things that GM can see or did, that are not evident to us...
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onfire (05-30-2017)
05-30-2017, 01:00 AM
#278
Burning Brakes
As others have posted, only significant change between 2016 and 2017 is timing. Nothing in MAF, Fuel, etc. that I can find in HPT.
Your post above with the K&N and stock cai makes me think that it's rare, but a few ZO6's have an issue with the altered MAF dimension of aftermarket cai's. But who knows. Tough code. Did you do anything to the Halltech before the tune to try and eliminate the p0106 except tightening the clamps,etc ?
Thanks for the info.
Your post above with the K&N and stock cai makes me think that it's rare, but a few ZO6's have an issue with the altered MAF dimension of aftermarket cai's. But who knows. Tough code. Did you do anything to the Halltech before the tune to try and eliminate the p0106 except tightening the clamps,etc ?
Thanks for the info.
05-30-2017, 10:46 AM
#279
Melting Slicks
I've run my 17 m7 with a ported TB and BMS filter WOT from 20 or so thru 4th and into 5th (about 165) more than 10 times with no codes. The ambient temps were from 55 to 85F, mostly over 70.
05-30-2017, 10:47 AM
#280
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As others have posted, only significant change between 2016 and 2017 is timing. Nothing in MAF, Fuel, etc. that I can find in HPT.
Your post above with the K&N and stock cai makes me think that it's rare, but a few ZO6's have an issue with the altered MAF dimension of aftermarket cai's. But who knows. Tough code. Did you do anything to the Halltech before the tune to try and eliminate the p0106 except tightening the clamps,etc ?
Thanks for the info.
Your post above with the K&N and stock cai makes me think that it's rare, but a few ZO6's have an issue with the altered MAF dimension of aftermarket cai's. But who knows. Tough code. Did you do anything to the Halltech before the tune to try and eliminate the p0106 except tightening the clamps,etc ?
Thanks for the info.