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Half a tank of gas is approx how many gallons? If you had half a tank, would you notice a difference with 16 oz vs 32 oz of the boostane?
I think there is a point that you can get to much where it will actually reduce performance. I know this for a fact from some testing I did many years ago using different octanes of gas in the "same" engine making no tune changes, etc. The bottom line is to match the octane requirements to the conditions/setup. If you have the equipment to check for retard/knock and have it then up the octane booster. There is also a point where no amount of octane will stop knock, at that point you need to reduce timing, compression, boost, etc.
Again, I like cleaner plugs. You know residue can not be good for rings, cylinder walls, etc.
Last edited by C7/Z06 Man; 04-24-2017 at 06:03 PM.
...Again, I like cleaner plugs. You know residue can not be good for rings, cylinder walls, etc.
I've only mixed a total of about 10 quart bottles of Torco in my car at the last couple of track events, and I haven't pulled any plugs to see what they might look like.
However, I googled for images on the internet of what Torco does. It apparently puts an orange residue on engine parts, and there were a lot of pictures that all show an orange color - similar to this one:
That may not be of any concern at all, but Boostane says it doesn't do that.
Are there long term affects to utilizing these octane boosters? Outside of the orange coating as pictured on the torco apps? Will the 17s adjust to a 100 octane tune? Great data, sorry for the noob questions
I've only mixed a total of about 10 quart bottles of Torco in my car at the last couple of track events, and I haven't pulled any plugs to see what they might look like.
However, I googled for images on the internet of what Torco does. It apparently puts an orange residue on engine parts, and there were a lot of pictures that all show an orange color - similar to this one:
That may not be of any concern at all, but Boostane says it doesn't do that.
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Bob, how do you ensure you have a consistent mix at the track? I usually fill up after two 20 minute sessions although the tank is between 1/8 and 1/4 full I don't want to run out after several laps of the third session (especially 2 miles from pit in). I assume this is much cheaper than filling up from the race gas pump ($8/gal) that is next to the street gas pump ($3.50/gal)?
Bob, how do you ensure you have a consistent mix at the track? I usually fill up after two 20 minute sessions although the tank is between 1/8 and 1/4 full I don't want to run out after several laps of the third session (especially 2 miles from pit in). I assume this is much cheaper than filling up from the race gas pump ($8/gal) that is next to the street gas pump ($3.50/gal)?
Bill
Since we have two tanks in our cars, I always use the following method to get a good mix of Torco right from the start:
I add some Torco, then some gas, then the remaining Torco, then more gas. Depending on your mix/ratio, add accordingly...
With supercharged cars, especially my blownc5, I like to stay close to a half tank or better on road course, just safer in my opinion/experience when asking for LOTS of fuel when creating G-forces...
I've got the same built motor stroked 418 LS3 in my Supercharged C5 for the last 6 years. If I'm behind the wheel, it's being driven HARD! I've been running Torco in everytank full, and have not had a single issue from any build up...
some folks think that if some is good, MORE is better. Also, those plugs have other issues going on as well...
Well....I've been using these - a 2, a couple 5, a couple 6, and a 14 gallon tank!! You can see a bottle of Boostane and my measuring cup on the tonneau cover:
I carry a couple of those jugs in the bed of the truck and several in the trailer. I keep them empty until I get close to the track, then fill them up with 93 octane. At a multi-day event I'll take them in the truck when we go out to dinner and fill up.
Using the the Torco blending chart, it says 12 oz of Torco in 5 gallons of 93 will give you 100.5 so I used to put about 12 oz in the 5 gal jugs, maybe an oz more in the 6 gal jugs, and a 32 oz bottle seemed to be plenty in the 14 gal tank.
I haven't used the Boostane Pro yet, but you see on the can that it says 1 qt in 25 gals of 93 will turn it into 101 octane. So my 5 gal jugs would need 1/5th of a qt, i.e., 6.4oz. So, I figure 6 oz plus a drip in 5 gals should give me 100 octane, and I'll ratio that up for the other jugs.
Bottom line - I'm doing most of my refueling at the track from my gas jugs lately. It's easy to add the correct amount of octane booster that way.
And it looks like with Boostane I'll only need about 1/2 what was required with Torco.
If I start a track day with the car filled up, and burn maybe 11-12 gals per session (the dang Z06 SUCKS DOWN the fuel!! I'm getting 3.8-4 mpg on the track!!), my jugs should take care of me for a day.
Well....I've been using these - a 2, a couple 5, a couple 6, and a 14 gallon tank!! You can see a bottle of Boostane and my measuring cup on the tonneau cover:
I carry a couple of those jugs in the bed of the truck and several in the trailer. I keep them empty until I get close to the track, then fill them up with 93 octane. At a multi-day event I'll take them in the truck when we go out to dinner and fill up.
Using the the Torco blending chart, it says 12 oz of Torco in 5 gallons of 93 will give you 100.5 so I used to put about 12 oz in the 5 gal jugs, maybe an oz more in the 6 gal jugs, and a 32 oz bottle seemed to be plenty in the 14 gal tank.
I haven't used the Boostane Pro yet, but you see on the can that it says 1 qt in 25 gals of 93 will turn it into 101 octane. So my 5 gal jugs would need 1/5th of a qt, i.e., 6.4oz. So, I figure 6 oz plus a drip in 5 gals should give me 100 octane, and I'll ratio that up for the other jugs.
Bottom line - I'm doing most of my refueling at the track from my gas jugs lately. It's easy to add the correct amount of octane booster that way.
And it looks like with Boostane I'll only need about 1/2 what was required with Torco.
If I start a track day with the car filled up, and burn maybe 11-12 gals per session (the dang Z06 SUCKS DOWN the fuel!! I'm getting 3.8-4 mpg on the track!!), my jugs should take care of me for a day.
Bob
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Have you used an Octane Booster all the time or did you go with pump gas for the first events with the car? If you ran pump gas for a while do you notice a change in how the car performs over the course of a day?
I've only run 4 events with the C7. Two with the stock tune and 93 octane pump gas: at NCM VIR HPDE last year; and Daytona in Oct.
Then I got the 100 octane tune in about Nov and drove two events here at Daytona in Dec and this month with 100 blended gas.
I also did a 1/2 mile WannaGOFAST event in Jan with a 100 octane blend, but it was my first (and probably last!!) drag race type event I've ever run, so nothing to compare it to.
The first couple HPDE's with regular 93 octane I was getting used to the car and not pushing it real hard. I've been getting progressively more aggressive as I've gotten used to the car, so the last two events with the 100 octane tune and 100 octane gas blend I've pushed the car harder.
So...it's hard to tell if there is any difference in performance between before/after the 100 octane tune, or if it's because I'm just ready to push the car a lot harder now.
I haven't logged any engine parameters other than what Cosworth Toolbox shows. But I have a couple devices that I can use to check knock, and I may try to log knock at VIR the end of June (my next event). Unfortunately, with the 100 octane tune, I'm kinda committed to running 100 octane at the track, so I really can't fuel up with a tank of 93 for a session to see the difference in knock between the octane levels.
Bottom line - I don't really know how much the 100 octane tune might be helping performance of the car. I've been getting used to the car and driving harder at the same time I got the 100 octane tune, so maybe it's a combination of both!
However, the car does run really strong and smooth at WOT with the 100 octane tune and gas blend.
I've only mixed a total of about 10 quart bottles of Torco in my car at the last couple of track events, and I haven't pulled any plugs to see what they might look like.
However, I googled for images on the internet of what Torco does. It apparently puts an orange residue on engine parts, and there were a lot of pictures that all show an orange color - similar to this one:
That may not be of any concern at all, but Boostane says it doesn't do that.
The 2017 Corvette owner's manual states the following on page 214:
"Do not use fuels with any of the following conditions; doing so may damage the vehicle and void its warranty: Fuel containing metals such as methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT), which can damage the emissions control system and spark plugs."
TORCO contains MMT which leaves the distinct orange deposits as shown in your picture. The manganese is the deposit seen and it flakes off causing excessive wear to piston rings and pistons. If your warranty is intact and GM sees these deposits following an engine failure, it won't be intact any longer. Is it something to be concerned about? I can't answer that question since I won't be the one paying for your engine and I can't say if you even have the orange deposits.
MMT works exactly like TEL (Tetraethyl lead), they are both organometallic compounds that work by modifying the pre-flame reactions in the combustion chamber to prevent an improper flame from developing. The short version is it increases the ignition delay which is where people get the "Old Wives Tale" of higher octane fuels burn slower...the octane rating of a fuel does not correlate to flame front velocity. Ignition delay as used in this context does not refer to the time component, it refers to the temperature component...it increases the temperature at which it allows the flame front to propagate. Increasing the amount of MMT or TEL concentration is a case of diminishing returns, you get to a point where you see very little increase in octane rating with each additional gram of MMT/TEL. For that reason, there is no 32 oz can of anything that will raise 93 octane fuel to 100 octane...even TORCO proves that with an "independent" test where 91 octane fuel increase to 96 octane. In reality, you can expect to see a 2-3 octane number improvement with the best octane booster and TORCO is one of the best if not the best. If Boostane isn't using MMT or TEL, maybe they're using Ferrocene but it leaves a reddish-orange deposit from the oxidation of the iron component. The iron-oxide deposits also increases the conductivity of the spark plugs leading to misfire. The bottom line is if you want 100 octane fuel, buy 100 octane race fuel...then you know for sure you have 100 octane fuel AND your warranty stays intact.
Last edited by glass slipper; 04-30-2017 at 06:45 PM.
If your car wasn't pulling timing beforehand, then no amount of additional octane will improve performance (and in fact, will hurt it). This test might determine that you're not octane limited perhaps? But without something to increase octane demand, not sure what this reveals.
Ideally you'd want some scenario where you were experiencing knock counts, add an octane product, repeat the scenario, and have those knock counts (and accompanying retard) to go away.
I'm not ragging on you though, it's incredibly hard to measure octane. In fact a dedicated one-cylinder machine used to be used, might still be!
Higher octane fuel (when not needed) hurting performance is an old wives tale, the octane number has no correlation to flame speed. In fact, there are high octane fuels that can increase the HP of an 8:1 compression engine that happily runs on 87 octane fuel but you have to decrease timing to see the HP gains. The flame speed is so much faster, you reach peak pressure before the optimum 11°-14° ATDC...reducing timing restores the timing of peak pressures and increases HP by reducing the negative work as the piston approaches TDC.
It isn't "incredibly hard" to measure octane rating, they use the same basic reliable CFR engine they've been using for ~80 years, and yes it's a one cylinder engine you can adjust the compression ratio with a hand crank while it's running. The study of the internal combustion engine was my minor at Georgia Tech and we had one of those engines I got to play with as the professor's teaching assistant my senior year. We also had an engine with a "window" that we studied flame front characteristics with a high speed camera...neat stuff.
And my opinion is that they both probably have some similar ingredients, and will do about the same thing in like amounts, so still makes Torco cheaper, plus my source is less then EBay...
how are you coming to that conclusion? You use LESS boostane and use MORE torco to get same octane......I'll give you one dollar and you give me 6 quarters because a qtr is cheaper than a dollar and you win what's the source?
BOOSTane Engineer here. Let us know if we can answer any of your questions.
Hi - welcome to the forum and thanks for checking in!!
Any good deals for us forum members?? If you do promote/sell stuff here you'll probably need to be a forum vendor, but with a nice forum discount you might get a good amount of business.
If you just want to "answer questions" the moderators will probably let you hang out and tell us about the product - like blending ratios, etc.
Hi - welcome to the forum and thanks for checking in!!
Any good deals for us forum members?? If you do promote/sell stuff here you'll probably need to be a forum vendor, but with a nice forum discount you might get a good amount of business.
If you just want to "answer questions" the moderators will probably let you hang out and tell us about the product - like blending ratios, etc.
Again, welcome aboard!!
Thanks for the welcome. I am sure we can figure something out to help take care of avid enthusiasts such as yourselves, but I am one of the development engineers, therefore my focus will be answering fuel questions, etc.
That being said, as a chemical engineer, I am happy to offer information outside of BOOSTane as well, i.e. octane ratings, ethanol, heavy metals, future of fuels, engine tech with regards to fuel, etc.
I know some of your initial concerns was cost and depositing. With respects to BOOSTane our costs comes primarily from the proprietary carrier that our team developed. As I am sure all of you know there are million ways to increase octane. Ferrocene for example is a very inexpensive way of doing so. However, ferrocene comes from iron, so as you can imagine this would lead to oxygenation. Therefore, we worked to develop a product that not only increased octane but did so reliably and sustainably, thus our carrier.
Our ability to keep active ingredients suspended indefinitely in solution allows for better/more efficient delivery as well as combating phase separation from varying densities while also stabilizing todays fuels from the hygroscopic nature (water absorption) of ethanol in our fuels today.
BOOSTane Engineer here. Let us know if we can answer any of your questions.
As you "most likely" know I have tried both brands, Torco & Boostane. I read a lot on here about Torco so I gave it a try first then Boostane. Well it really only took one trip to the track with your brand to make my mind up.
I did pull a plug after trying both brands and that alone settled it for me but I also felt that Boostane had the better punch too.
Last edited by C7/Z06 Man; 05-01-2017 at 10:48 PM.
04-24-2017, 05:50 PM
I would read their sites on what they contain.
You can see a bottle of Boostane and my measuring cup on the tonneau cover:
