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Fact is, there is SOME sort of proven cooling issue. Whether every driver is able to reach it or not...it's there.
Some will pay for it on the track, ALL will pay for it by way of resale value of the car.
Even if it was completely false...(which it isn't), an issue like this is going to sway perception. Perception affects value. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube! Once it's out, it's out.
Which car resales better:
Car A, a car which may or may not fail on you if you drive it too hard because of a cooling issue.
Car B, a car with no cooling concerns whatsoever.
If this suit is actually heard, the attorneys will place an amount on that diminished value.
So where did GM say you could show up at any track on any day and run at the front of the pack without modifying the car?
When in all your life have you been able to show up at a track with an unmodified vehicle, be competitive and not expect to eventually exceed the limitations of the car?
And when have you been able to take a car to the track abuse it in a racetrack environment and drive it the local dealer for warranty service and not be denied?
I get it, you are one of the few that can exceed the cars limitations on a hot day. Many think you are being unreasonable in your expectations. There will be a percentage of folks capable of exceeding the limitations of any product.
Perhaps if you spent your resources and time improving the car rather than in the lawyers office you would have the most capable car at the track..(if you don't already?).....Seriously how far can the Z be off the mark at your skill level? What an extra cooler or two? Maybe a $1000 bucks or so? Certainly less of a commitment in time and funds than a law suit.
I'm pretty sure your assumptions are inaccurate. It's happened to me twice, one at 90d and another day at 91d. Once at 15 min and Once at 22 minutes. I'm a novice driver with an instructor on board, so unlikely I'm running competitive at the front of the pack. However, GM marketing led me to believe for $110k I had all the modifications I would need for the car to perform at levels well exceeding my novice capability. Since the car hasn't performed to their marketing, I'm feeling pretty confident along with others who have experienced the problem, there is an engineering design problem that has gone unresolved. I really don't care to modify a design issue that I paid for in the first place. But, thanks for your irrelevant comments that don't address the issue.
No... They made an SS 1LE from 2013-2015 and brought it back for the 6th Gen Camaro late 2016.
The ZL1 1LE is brand new for 2017, but its highly unlikely Bill came across one because while GM had a press event at VIR a week or two ago, none are out to customers yet. In fact, production starts next week for those.
Too many videos posted on YouTube showing the exact opposite for the M7 cars. Including those in the law suit brings the whole thing into question. Hell, I just posted a very good video showing how the 15 Z06 meets the goals that GM set and advertised. Ran 438 track miles over 3 days and only had a performance issue during the last session of the last day. The ambient temp was in the low 90s but the surging may have been caused by something else. Even with the surging I was still one of the fastest cars on the track for the half hour I was on track. I got off track because both the car and I were running out of gas.
Bill
Bill we all know how modified your car is and all the things you've done to keep it cool.Go grab a stock 2017 Zo6 and watch it go into limp mode within 15 minutes of hard tracking.
Bill we all know how modified your car is and all the things you've done to keep it cool.Go grab a stock 2017 Zo6 and watch it go into limp mode within 15 minutes of hard tracking.
I tracked stock M7 2017 Z06 hard for straight 30 mins without any sort of limp mode in warm weather at Spring Mountain.
Same thing couple of days ago, 25 session mins at Auto Club Speedway. No problem at all.
I know for a fact A8 Z06 would be different story.
Class action
This sounds here like the way it got on the C6 forum about the valve issue. When motors start letting go, First it was let's ask Tadge. All we got was a bunch of dribbling BS from him. Then it was crying about diminished value. Guess what? They all diminish no matter what you have. Then it was back to all the arguing about whether the problem was real and how many were really affected. Then came the class action. Same arguments then about the class action as I see now. That was all a couple years ago that the big bad lawsuit was launched and resulted in GM clamming up about LS7's for good. No ones car got fixed in any way by GM and little to nothing has been heard about the class action except for a barrage of delays. I decided then not to purchase a C7 Z because of the way GM handled our issue and I would expect the C7 issues to be handled exactly the same. They will just come out with another new model that takes everyone's eyes off the ball and business will go on as usual. Then everyone will go on how fantastic the new model is until GM puts the screws to them too. Life goes on...
Being in the auto industry for over 20 years I know the real cause of most product issues/failures. It's not the engineers or the design. It's the dam penny pinching accountants who gets their dirty hands on the car after the engineer get done building a perfect car. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame any company for wanting to save cost but some take it way too far. I suspect that the original design had more robust intercooler but somewhere down the line they decided to cheap out. Just take a look at the C6 ZR1, it’s almost the same set up but no issues.
As much as I despise lawsuits and lawyer (sorry I know we have some here), sometime we need them. So that way next time when they develop a car, they will have to think twice before putting on that cheap part.
Class action
This sounds here like the way it got on the C6 forum about the valve issue. When motors start letting go, First it was let's ask Tadge. All we got was a bunch of dribbling BS from him. Then it was crying about diminished value. Guess what? They all diminish no matter what you have. Then it was back to all the arguing about whether the problem was real and how many were really affected. Then came the class action. Same arguments then about the class action as I see now. That was all a couple years ago that the big bad lawsuit was launched and resulted in GM clamming up about LS7's for good. No ones car got fixed in any way by GM and little to nothing has been heard about the class action except for a barrage of delays. I decided then not to purchase a C7 Z because of the way GM handled our issue and I would expect the C7 issues to be handled exactly the same. They will just come out with another new model that takes everyone's eyes off the ball and business will go on as usual. Then everyone will go on how fantastic the new model is until GM puts the screws to them too. Life goes on...
couldn't agree with you more but lawyer don't forget. They will continue to until they get their share. Unfortunately owner won't benefit that much.
I guarantee that GM has done their math on recall VS lawsuits and they rather stroke a check and move on
Last edited by asian-winkie; 06-14-2017 at 01:48 AM.
Being in the auto industry for over 20 years I know the real cause of most product issues/failures. It's not the engineers or the design. It's the dam penny pinching accountants who gets their dirty hands on the car after the engineer get done building a perfect car. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame any company for wanting to save cost but some take it way too far. I suspect that the original design had more robust intercooler but somewhere down the line they decided to cheap out. Just take a look at the C6 ZR1, it’s almost the same set up but no issues.
It seems odd if the penny-pinchers intruded into the engine bay; it would be weird (or just plain dumb) if Engineering signed off on the car if their design was changed significantly.
2017 Z06 2LZ - Just doing some spirited driving and the car in Las Vegas, ran pretty hot that even after the car was sitting for 15 minutes the fans were still cooling it down!
This is essentially good. GM needs to be bothered with these even if they end up not being successful. Hopefully they would think twice, and set their thresholds better next time.
All the telecom and other "class action lawsuits" I was a part of, I think someone "gave me" about 10 cents, if it was that much. And by the way, that word "class" is really a misused term imo. This is someone's fishing expedition so that someone can profit from it---follow the money.
Guess people get bent out of shape when you confirm their pride and joy isn't the end all be all, greatest corvette ever.
So much butthurt. Haha! How DARE you speak ill of the Good General! He'd never wrong us! It never happened to me so you're wrong! It only happened to four cars! (<- my fave) I can drive on the track at part throttle and it doesn't overheat that much!
Well, I guess it was only a matter of time this would happen.
All Tadge and his team had to do was proactively work on existing 2015-2016 cars on the cooling issue by providing better plumbing and cooling. I still think it would've been a cheaper fix that trying to fight a lawsuit that leads to more bad press and damage to the brand.
Take a page from Porsche on how they take care of their customers.
First off, I think that the cooling system on the car was developed with street driving in mind, not track driving. The stacked heat exchangers, low frontal area and packaging just do not pass enough air.
If you look at this lawsuit it is claiming it is a safety issue. That will not fly in court. "Limp Mode" is a protective feature and does not create a safety risk. The cooling system is not a manufacturing or design defect but a compromise for packaging over performance.
The LS7 valve issue was a design flaw that resulted in engine failures.
The real issue here is that many people bought the car based on marketing and they are disappointed that it does not perform to their expectations. This will also go nowhere, GM saying that it is "the most track capable Corvette" does not give hard data that can be compared. What does track capable mean? If they published that the 2015 A8 could be lapped at Laguna Seca for a full tank we could refute this.
Yes there are people disappointed, yes the lawyers are doing what they do. In the end nothing will come of this to current owners.
To add, it wasn't constant 25 min going at it. Sometimes we stopped to let groups catching up from behind to pass us. Also, we slowed whenever we did car rotations every 2 laps. I think all that helped keep temps low(er.)
Same here, never had more then two fast laps during a session. Sold mine and got a Camaro SS 1LE for the track.
06-14-2017, 12:02 AM
