davepl

LOL back atcha.

Big power isn't for blowing your ears out. It's for being able to accurately and powerfully reproduce low end bass and sub-bass sounds. So it doesn't even have to be that loud to require good equipment, right?

If you -never- make use of that power, then you've wasted your money, unless you're one of those people who had McIntosh amps with tubes and analog VU meters to impress people (like an audio waxer!)

First thing I thought on my first HPDE day, long ago in a C4, was "Wow, I can't believe I never experienced what this car is engineered for, and that I normally drive it around oblivious to it all day long!"

So yes, I do believe that everyone who's capable should get to experience their Z at the track, or they'll never fully know what they own. Just like the stereo doesn't have to be loud to be good, you don't have to be 10/10ths to appreciate the car, either.

If all someone does is sit in a lawn chair and wax it like yard art, that is a little sad to me.

Hirohawa

Agreed.

davepl

It's stock for a 2017, so Bill's experience tells us two things:

1) The car (M7 at least) was indeed somewhat improved for 2017
2) Adding that cooler mitigates some of the problem

I think that's relevant because when they come to damages, it'll likely be capped at the cost of the aux cooler (plus labor) if they can demonstrate it's sufficient to solve most people's problems, right?

You're not going to get a buyback if $300 part "fixes" the problem, for example.

Hirohawa

GM should offer this as a free upgrade and get ahead of the negative press from this lawsuit. Honestly they should have done it as soon as the 2017s where released. It probably would have squashed the desire for the lawsuit from the owners altogether.

Corvette Z06 has built up a stellar rep for being a powerhouse and I hate seeing it get constantly dinged for short sightedness or cost cutting. The Corvette has one of the most hard core fan bases in the world - like Harley Davidson or Apple - and they need to take care of their customers better. The C6 Z and the C67 both have Class action Lawsuits against them. The C5 Z would have had one too for the 2001 Oil Consumption problems but they corrected the problem for 2002. Everyone makes mistakes - so fast honest actions are the only course of action for big companies.

Bad Dad

I agree with all you said but the A8 is out correct ...

davepl

I'm surprised they didn't offer the aux cooler discounted for 15s and 16s. The fact they didn't kind of told me they weren't going to do anything at all.

2017ZO6

I have driven my Z hard on many hot days! Unfortunately for the naysayers it doesn't even come close to overheating!! 😀😀😀

Doc V.

1. I suspect, Big Lebowski, that you've overreacted. I presented anecdotal evidence about one car and noted that the evidence is inconsistent with the basis of the lawsuit. I did not offer an inference that "the lawsuit has no validity at all." To have done so would have amounted to offering a hasty generalization, where the sample is insufficient to render the conclusion probable. You've manufactured a conclusion and unwisely attributed it to me, Big Lebowski.

The attorneys who filed the lawsuit have the burden of proving that 2015-2017 Z06s "cannot actually be operated safely on a racetrack and enter a performance-limited 'limp mode' while tracked." To do so, they'll need a sample of 2015-2017 Z06s which is sufficiently broad and random, and they'll need to show that the majority of the 2015-2017 Z06s are unsafe on the track and suffer from performance-limiting cooling problems, viz., they'll need compelling evidence to validate the basis of the lawsuit. Every confirmatory instance (your experiences, for example, with your car, Big Lebowski) works in their favor; every disconfirmatory instance works against them.

2. I did not drive the 2016 M7 Z06, cvp33. I worked with a skilled driver who operated the car very effectively. The car did slide subtly in many corners--an indication that the driver was often maximizing cornering traction by using the car's tires within their optimal slip angles--the range in which they deliver the greatest grip. By reducing his corner segment times--by exiting the corners more quickly, the driver cut his straightaway times and utilized rolling speed to his advantage.

3. I work for Ferrari, b4i4getit.

ZenicaPA

I drew the same conclusion as Big Lebowski. Your verbiage and the tone you were aiming for are both dismissive of the claims people have made as well as being indifferent to the person posting the claim.

Most everyone here is mature enough and experienced enough to know when someone is being condescending, dismissive and indifferent so please, spare us the empty platitudes of innocence.

Own up to your comment.


Not so. It isn't a situation of one washing out the other. If an equal number of vehicles exhibit the issue as vehicles that don't, the lawsuit would be thrown out? It isn't quid pro quo.

This thread isn't a sounding board for people with blinders or those that don't have an issue with overheating. It is for those that do have overheating and are seeking solace with others that have the same issue.

23/C8Z

Owning a convertible you have zero horse in this race. A Z06 convertible according to the "track rats" is an oxy moron.

and Bill, be thankful for people like Dave and myself. As if it weren't for us people buying the non race Z06 cars, you'd be modifying a Z51 stingray.
yeah, I haven't nor will I ever experience 100% of the capabilities of my car but i get the type of enjoyment I signed up for. I love the look of the car and power. The handling aspect? It's a bonus. Would be nice to be able to be Patrick Dempsey or Paul Newman but some of us are younger and have other financial obligations than hpde days.

back to overheating bs. Enjoy.

cvp33

Your post made me giggle. I think you win the fastest passenger award. Your descriptive prose is lightning quick though.

Big Lebowski

Nope. Just sharing my opinion.

"Manufactured a conclusion?"

"Unwisely attributed it to me?"

Lol. You're hilarious. No conclusions were "manufactured", just an opinion that differs from yours. Im curious, what is not "wise" about reacting to your comments? It's a public forum. If you have issue with others opposing your viewpoint, I wouldn't offer them here.

This explains SOOOOOO much.

LG Motorsports

Hi Guys,

No matter the cause but the reality is that any C7 Z06 driven at race speeds on track will NOT be able to finish a full session without over heating either the engine or transmission. This is a fact. (even the ones posted here are only on full throttle for about 22% of the time, that is not what GM Claimed the Z06 was capable of) << and it is not what many would expect from a "track ready" Corvette.

The owners can sue GM (which I can attest to, means fighting a multimillion dollar lawyer brigade) OR they can fix the problem and enjoy the car-- or buy a C6 Z06 and build a great tack car for a modest cost--then drive the C7 to Cars and Coffee. No disrespect here- I go to Cars and coffee.

We have done both. We came up with our own TRACK COOLING for the C7 that works.
Take it or leave it. But the bottom line is that Corvette owners DO like to got to the track and a larger radiator is not the solution but only a small improvement considering the air temps that leave the GM intercooler.

We are installing our Track Cooling Package on a Calloway as we speak because he has had the overheating issues described. We have sent this package to multiple other countries to owners who would rather hot rod their cars on track. not to mention the US owners that are using our package as we speak.

We had problems from day one on track with the stock C7 Z06. We tested our package at 103 degrees in Texas Temps with no issues. (No we don't like tracking at 103 degrees but it was necessary)

We throw away the GM intercooler that dumps 220 degree air in front of the engine radiator and replace it with our own dual intercoolers under each head light and let the hot air release into the wheel well and out the side or each wheel opening. We had to Digitize the fascia at our own expense to build the carbon inlet ducts, because GM has black balled LGM from "SEMA Tech Transfer". Gee, who would have thought?

We also add a front oil cooler and move the second transmission cooler to the rear. On the A6 and A8 cars we add a high capacity transmission oil pan that does not sacrifice any ground clearance but adds around 1 gallon more to the cooling capacity.
Add in our own LG engine radiator and fan modification to add to the basic engine cooling capacity as well.

Top it all off with our C7 Aero Hood that doubles the louvered area and adds an extraction lip at the front to create a low pressure area in the louver area that works.

So either line up for a law suit and stay off track or solve the problem and enjoy tracking your C7.
***OR you can wait for the new ZR1 to come out that has a similar solution to ours at a much higher cost.

I would think that GM has a brain trust in their engineering department that knew about this issue and could have solved it if they wanted to. Your guess is as good as mine.

thanks
Lou Gigliotti
LG Motorsports
We Race, YOU WIN.

davepl

I don't agree with your assertion that it's straight out impossible to finish a track session in the Z, but won't belabor it here.

I think the engineering is great, but I just can't get past the "sawzall" look of the chin intakes. Have you considered having a talented body shop or designer come up with a perhaps "better integrated" way of opening up the sides?

I'm a programmer, and every so often I have to hire an artist, because programmers can't draw.

I'd wager if it -looked- as nice as the ZR1 camo front end and performed as well as you claim, you'd sell a lot more. Looks like you've baked a hell of a cake, now you need a decorator!

Not saying it looks bad, just that it could look better (to me).

LG Motorsports

Then as a programmer, you should try building a race car that works.

Finishing a "track session" does not mean driving around a track a modest speeds and very little full throttle.
A track session means driving with anger on a track in moderate heat.

with all due respect to the lap video around Watkins glen, in a 125 second lap the car was only at full throttle 28 seconds and either coasting, braking or part throttle.
that is not a valid test of what GM claimed when these cars were sold. In fact they put the timing and track map on the dash for those who actually wanted to go to the track in this "Track Ready" car with track maps and timing and video included in this car.

We can not keep up with the orders. We send them with the front fascia modified with carbon inlet ducts installed.

Like I said, any C7 supercharged owners can take it or leave it. Track it or not but a real hard track session WILL over heat the car.

thanks
Lou gigliotti
LG Motorsports

LG Motorsports

Oh yeah, maybe we will supply our kits with the new ZR1 fascia in a year or so to upgrade the existing C7 cars with our kits.

LG

Doc V.

I've never retreated from my "comment," ZenicaPA. That you--and Big Lebowski--jumped to a hasty conclusion is a matter for each of you to resolve sensibly and without falling victim to distraction. And claiming, Big Lebowski, that you've only offered an "opinion" is disingenuous: clearly, you support a conclusion--not an "opinion," and you don't want to consider any evidence which runs counter to your conclusion. Given your clouded reaction, it's obvious that you believe that offering faulty inferences is wise. And even though you claim that you've offered your opinion--a position which does not require rational support, you ironically take the time to defend your opinion--an action which indicates that you're offering more than an opinion.

Regrettably, I did not realize, ZenicaPA, that you determined the purpose of this thread: you've asserted that "it is for those that do have overheating and are seeking solace with others that have the same issue." In other words, ZenicaPA, a thread entitled "Corvette Z06 Owners Hit GM with a Proposed Class Action Lawsuit" is intended to comfort individuals whose cars "have the same issue." You're suggesting that the thread is a safe space, ZenicaPA. (And please--for your own benefit, check on the actual meaning of "quid pro quo": the term doesn't apply to the fascinating "equal numbers" scenario that you presented.)

I'm grateful for the "fastest passenger award," cvp33. The silly amusement that you experienced as you conceived the award only makes the award all the more rewarding. I'll pass it back to you when you have a little more sustained time in the right seat of a stock C7 M7 Z06 which is being driven close to or at its limit by a skilled driver.

People affiliated with Ferrari. Porsche, BMW, Ford, et al., recognize that the C7 Z06 is a terrific car, Big Lebowski. Your innuendo is gratuitous. That you own a C7 Z06 indicates that you understand and value the car's tremendous performance potential. It's unfortunate that you, ZenicaPA, and others have had less than positive experiences with your cars. Nevertheless, the lawsuit won't be successful unless the attorneys who filed it can demonstrate that the issue of overheating is endemic in 2015-2017 Z06 range. One instance of a stock 2016 M7 Z06 not overheating on the track does not invalidate the basis of the lawsuit, certainly, but additional counterinstances, which GM will undoubtedly present if the case moves forward--only make case more difficult to prove.

JoesC5

I will accept Lou's facts before I will accept your opinions.

I know that Lou was racing corvettes in the Corvette Challenge series back around 1989, or so.

How long have you been actually "racing" Corvettes?

How many Corvettes have you built strictly for racing? Lou has built a few.

How many trophies have you won racing Corvettes?

Lou has a successful business building/modifying Corvettes. What is the name of your Corvette business that builds/modifies Corvettes?

onfire

BMW has been splitting the HX on the M cars for years. Works very well.

johnglenntwo

I like looking at auto TECH and how its changing. I was informed here a couple of days ago that Volvo is producing a turbo twin screw SC in series. A little 2.0 liter 4 banger making old LS1 power and probably more average torque.
But, I heard today Volvo is going full electric and maybe autonomous? by 2019. NO MORE GAS ENGINES from them! This hard on a warranty Hot Rod 4 banger is probably just a last harrah.
And Tesla is making it really affordable too!
And cars aren't selling, especially our type.
My point is times are changing and guys are still arguing that there is anything wrong with the ZO6 and its overheating.
Simply if you know nothing else remember, "Where there is Smoke there's Fire!

Now's just time for the GM solutions!