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2016 Z06 - AFE CAI, Mamo PTB, Borla X-Pipe pops CEL

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Old 07-17-2017, 12:08 PM   #1
c7gman
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Default 2016 Z06 - AFE CAI, Mamo PTB, Borla X-Pipe pops CEL

Hello all,

Looking for some input on what happened running the back straight away on a track yesterday. Temp was around 83 degrees at roughly 930 a.m.

Car is a 2016 Z06 M7. Bolt on mods are an AFE CAI (oiled filter), Tony Mamo PTB and a Borla X-Pipe with a secondary cat delete.

THERE IS NO AFTERMARKET TUNE NOR HAS THERE BEEN ON THIS CAR.

I realize the quick answer is to get a tune, most likely. That is not why I am posting this. With over a year and a half left on the warranty, I am trying to avoid a tune for now even though I know that would optimize things.

This is what happened. Coming off the turn into the back stretch in 2nd gear I got it going. Shifted to 3rd and then to 4th. Pretty much mashing the pedal I got up to 134 mph then I got the dreaded DIC message. Reduced Engine Power along with a CEL. This was right at the time I was about to lay off the pedal, start braking and gearing down into a turn so not really a big deal at that point.

The reduced engine power message went away almost immediately after it limited me and I drove the rest of the track with the CEL on but power was still there. The message never came up again and the front straight away was good for 90-100 mph no problem.

CEL went away after about 5 start ups and shut downs and the car drove fine the rest of the day under normal highway and street driving conditions of almost 100 degrees.

So did too much airflow thru the intake mods cause this? I don't have a code reader, but I'm guessing I can still get the historical data of what was behind the CEL and Reduced Engine Power. I am going to attempt to get it "plugged up" up later this week to see what codes popped up yesterday. I miss the days of my C5 when I could get the codes right on the DIC.

Any thoughts and input are greatly appreciated!

And yes, I know, a tune would most likely help the overall performance and probably prevent this from happening again.

Thanks in advance for any input!!!!!
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:23 PM   #2
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You'll need the code to get a decent guess.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:36 PM   #3
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Not good. I'm looking to complete my no tune bolt-on setup with Tony's PTB when he gets more in stock. Same car as yours.
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMINENT 1 View Post
Not good. I'm looking to complete my no tune bolt-on setup with Tony's PTB when he gets more in stock. Same car as yours.
When I get the code(s) later this week I will post to this thread.
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:10 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by EMINENT 1 View Post
Not good. I'm looking to complete my no tune bolt-on setup with Tony's PTB when he gets more in stock. Same car as yours.
You may want to 'consider' a Katech ported TB, it has a machined down throttle shaft to make the throttle body hole 'bigger' which I believe the others don't offer.

I tried the Ketech and it performs like I would expect it too, i.e. more 'instant' improved response/acceleration off idle compared to the stocker, etc., etc. and you get more value for less money in my book due to the extra step of machining down the throttle shaft of this new 'CNC' throttle body. It Idles like stock when sitting still too.

Last edited by C7/Z06 Man; 07-17-2017 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:21 PM   #6
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c7gman, I have a AFE -1 and the (oiled) blue 'high flow' filter slowed my pickup 'down' going down the 1/4 mile compared to the OEM replacement (oiled) Green filter I was using, so I stuck the (dry) gray 'low flow' filter in the AFE and 'BAM' the car picked up over the Green filter. I have also read that you are less likely to set a code running the gray filter.

Oh, and in BMS's own testing that you can see if you go to their site that the AFE -1 produced 1/4 psi more boost pressure than the BMS filter at the same 6,000+ RPM's running the gray air filter.

I would give that a try. Just maybe it won't set a code and haul a little more a$$ to boot!

Last edited by C7/Z06 Man; 07-17-2017 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:58 PM   #7
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There are FOUR airflow mods on this car (with no tune to compensate) not to mention it was being tracked out in the summer heat when the CEL appeared (and we all know the cooling issues associated with these cars and how that can cause issues of their own from time to time).

It could be one of many things going on and potentially a combination of all of them as well. You cant have four airflow mods and not suspect you might throw a code with an unmodified tune.....cmon guys....a little common sense here. I would be more surprised the car didn't throw a code to be perfectly honest....especially all those mods and tracking it on a hot summer's day.

OP....seems you realize you need to tune the car and what I'm stating here isn't that big a surprise....and if you can get away with clearing a code here and there and retain all the mods you have and not tune it you really should consider yourself lucky IMO.

Guys....at some point you have to tune the car. if you continue modding it. A ported TB by itself....no issues....a ported TB and a better air filter....same deal....very good chance no issues.....a ported TB, filter, and an X-pipe....your starting to roll the dice a bit but most have been OK.....add the cat delete and its a much larger dice roll.....in fact odds more like flipping a coin at that point.

That's the lay of the land folks....you can only mod an untuned car so much before its going to throw a code because that's exactly what its programmed to do.....let you know when there is something going on beyond the parameters input from the GM engineers by a larger enough margin to flag it

-Tony
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Last edited by Tony Mamo; 07-17-2017 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 07-17-2017, 04:02 PM   #8
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Got reduce engine power check engine light at 165mph wot

mamo tb corsa x pipe green filter
no tune

i have a 17 and I have of guys getting code stock
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Old 07-17-2017, 04:08 PM   #9
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You need to tune your car, I have Tony's TB and borla x and Iv gotten a few codes so far over the past few months. Particularly at 150mph and if I drop it in to 2nd from a higher gear and punch it I can get a code to be thrown, only recently this has happened. For these reasons I haven't installed my halltech. Ordered a bunch of mods and I'm tuning mine I have a 16Z
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Old 07-17-2017, 04:13 PM   #10
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GMs decision to rigorously defend warranty claims against tuned cars is having its desired affect. It is greatly limiting what in and out mods can be done to the car without tuning and a subsequent blocked warranty. You have changed 2 things in front and 2 things out and run it at over 130 mph. That combination of 5 factors determined your problem point. Back off 1 of the 5 and you likely will be fine til the warranty is up.

One point however and that is these cars are expensive and complex enough that operating them after 3 years without an extended warranty is a risk. GM loves that since it will get folks to trade their cars more quickly to get the newer updated probably more powerful model.

All a win win for the Gen.
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Old 07-17-2017, 04:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsilvester81 View Post
Got reduce engine power check engine light at 165mph wot

mamo tb corsa x pipe green filter
no tune

i have a 17 and I have of guys getting code stock
There are 17's getting this code w no mods/tune.
Too senstive

i went to a chevy house

they took check engine light off.

I still love the car and went 162 wot w no codes
in 90 degree weather last week.

Last edited by Jsilvester81; 07-17-2017 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsilvester81 View Post
There are 17's getting this code w no mods/tune.
Too senstive

i went to a chevy house

they took check engine light off.

I still love the car and went 162 wot w no codes
in 90 degree weather last week.
tuning at some point is required. You can't just keep throwing bolt ons on a car that is tuned for stock. There really is no way of getting around this. To get the car to rip harder than stock with bolt ons it should be tuned to gain maximum performance
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:27 PM   #13
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I would love to see the fuel trim's

My guess is ....Lean
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:35 PM   #14
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Thanks for all the input guys. Just looking for best guesses as to what happened.

Obviously, as I stated before, the solution is apparent - TUNE.

I probably won't run it that hard again for a while so most likely won't be able to duplicate.

Never ran it that fast stock so don't know what would have happened then.

Really just looking for opinions from people smarter than me or who have experienced something along these lines before - that's all.

I really appreciate those who have chimed in with good feedback!!!!

Thanks!!!!
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Old 07-17-2017, 05:43 PM   #15
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ECU is also overwhelmed with the new input of airflow. Hot air definitely doesn't help. Getting tuned is definitely the ultimate fix. You most likely got the p420 code. It can/will clear itself in 150 miles.

150 miles is how long the ECU takes to re-calibrate all the new parameters. The ported TB and xpipe aren't the real cause for this (their airflow increase is no where near as the intake), the intake is the culprit. You can use the ported TB and xpipe for 150 miles + then try the intake. But without a tune, you will most likely just get the CEL back.

Just keep in mind that every car and environment is different. Also I am pretty sure Chevy changed up some things within the ECU for '17s. I know for a fact they did for camaros so the vette team could've done it for vettes as well.
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Old 07-18-2017, 12:06 AM   #16
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I don't race my 2015 Z. I did the AFE withe oiled filter, tony mamo TB and borla X pipe cat delete and I thru a few codes, changed to the gray dry filter and had no codes or issues.
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Old 07-18-2017, 02:05 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C7/Z06 Man View Post
You may want to 'consider' a Katech ported TB, it has a machined down throttle shaft to make the throttle body hole 'bigger' which I believe the others don't offer.

I tried the Ketech and it performs like I would expect it too, i.e. more 'instant' improved response/acceleration off idle compared to the stocker, etc., etc. and you get more value for less money in my book due to the extra step of machining down the throttle shaft of this new 'CNC' throttle body. It Idles like stock when sitting still too.
You may want to consider actually doing some research on airflow. Statements like "the hole isn't any bigger" clearly demonstrate that you don't have any idea on how airflow works beyond the layman understanding of "bigger is better."

Using your knowledge, everyone should purchase cylinder heads with the largest valves and port volumes available, a concept that was proven incorrect over 35 years ago when flow benches started to become more common in the automotive industry.

Flow benches allowed us to discover that a properly shaped small cross sectioned orifice could substantially outflow an improperly shaped larger orifice with the added benefit of increased throttle response.

I apologize if I sound harsh, but you have now posted your incorrect concept in multiple threads.

It's time to set the record straight.

The Katech PTB is a good product. IMHO the Mamo PTB throttle response and overall feel throughout the rpm range just happens to be better. I can make this statement because I own both and have swapped back and forth multiple times. I've also done blind taste tests with three friends. The results were unanimous.

You can't go wrong or be disappointed with either product.

The only way you can go wrong is subscribing to the "bigger hole is better" theory for anything on you car. There are more data points to consider.

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Old 07-18-2017, 08:12 AM   #18
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A Flowbench test of both throttle bodies back to back on the same bench would eliminate the speculation.
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Old 07-18-2017, 10:28 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogfather6 View Post
ECU is also overwhelmed with the new input of airflow. Hot air definitely doesn't help. Getting tuned is definitely the ultimate fix. You most likely got the p420 code. It can/will clear itself in 150 miles.

150 miles is how long the ECU takes to re-calibrate all the new parameters. The ported TB and xpipe aren't the real cause for this (their airflow increase is no where near as the intake), the intake is the culprit. You can use the ported TB and xpipe for 150 miles + then try the intake. But without a tune, you will most likely just get the CEL back.

Just keep in mind that every car and environment is different. Also I am pretty sure Chevy changed up some things within the ECU for '17s. I know for a fact they did for camaros so the vette team could've done it for vettes as well.


Yes, GM techs confirmed to me last year at SEMA that the tune has "tightened up" on the 17s, they will pop the CEL much sooner then 15/16s, but under certain conditions, even the earlier models are vulnerable...
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Old 07-18-2017, 11:26 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onfire View Post
A Flowbench test of both throttle bodies back to back on the same bench would eliminate the speculation.
A flow bench test is only going to tell you peak flow at WOT, most flow benches won't be able to generate enough of a pressure differential to measure flow at WOT to obtain any meaningful data on an orifice this size. We could however install them on three different vehicles and ask the drivers which one they like best.

Again, I apologize for getting off topic. Let's get back to what the OP asked. We can debate PTB and airflow dynamics in another thread.

C7gman,

Too may mods without a tune, your going to have to eliminate at least one. I would probably go back to a stock CAI and try just a filter like the BMS.


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