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First off let me start by saying that I'm not promoting any vendor I used for this project as there are various that sell different systems of everything I used and I collaborated with NONE of them. My car is an A8 and currently is not stock. When it was stock I never had any problems overheating in our Hot Texas weather even while stuck in traffic or cruising downtown until after modifying to about 700+ RWHP.
After modifications while it never overheated to the point of limp mode I didn't like 220-230 water temps and 250-260 oil temps. I would see those temps when cruising downtown for long periods or stuck in traffic my a/c always set on 69 degrees.
Sometimes my brain runs away with itself and gets thoughts in it that I just have to explore or I wont be happy. I had a full 7days coming up of days off so I ordered parts and supplies so they would be waiting for me when I made it home.
I ordered a fan forced air stacked plate oil cooler that advertises 500cfm and 46,000 btu's I'm no engineer but sounds good to me.
I then ordered a oil cooler delete system with a built in 190degree
thermostat and 8AN ports.
I picked up various 8AN fittings and 20ft of hose and ordered a cooling fan temperature switch set at 200-190degrees.
I get home and its all waiting on me. I put car up on 4 jack stands and go to work.
Pulled both wheel well liners and removed all panels underneath front end and started looking for space. While drivers side was more ideal the cooler I ordered was not gonna fit in any way(too big) so I decided on passenger side as there is plenty of room BUT our air intake is there also. So I stopped there and gave it some thought overnight I figured ok worst case scenario it doesn't work and I'll just buy replacement or upgraded parts for what I ruin/destroy.
Passenger side it is! I took off brake duct scoop and built a custom made bracket for cooler out of 3/4" aluminum square tubing and 3/4" aluminum strap. I cut a hole in wheel well liner the same size as cooler fan and bolted a stamped metal louver over hole. (Spacing and positioning cooler so as to align with wheel well hole and aluminum shroud I made was hardest part of all I almost gave up!)
The shroud had to fit so as to exhaust all hot air into wheel well and not the intake. Finally made it functional but not pretty. On to the oil cooler delete system.
That was a no brainer easy install with good instructions but had to wait on some parts that are labeled as "optional" when you get the kit which pissed me off because a kit is a kit to me and when ordering from website it doesn't say anything about optional parts required to complete kit! You'd figure a C7 Z06 Kit would come with all parts needed but not! also get ready because it also says to get a drain pan to catch a COUPLE of quarts of oil and water when removing factory oil cooler. That's a crock more like get ready to catch a couple quarts of oil and your ENTIRE cooling system capacity!!! LOL I had to laugh at that one.
Anyways I cut the brake duct intake and directed the air towards cooler maybe 3/4's of airflow hits cooler and the rest towards intake or wheel well. I did reuse the lower part of brake duct cooler as it is required to help hold wheel well liner.
I ran all oil lines and installed temp switch at cooler delete system as it has a port for pressure switch or temp sensor. I wrapped all wires in split loom tubing and zip tied everything like my life depended on it.
Refilled all fluids and performed leak test before installing all panels and liners. Everything looked good so I put everything back together.
Ready for testing but waiting on a add a circuit for the cooling fan but I decided what the heck wire it direct for now when hot.
I started car with front end in garage and let it idle waiting on fluid temps to come up. It took about 30mins for oil temp to reach 205degrees water temp highest was 197degrees. Keep in mind no load just idling. I opened hood and plugged in cooler fan direct closed hood and sat back in car and watched temps.
I was excited to see oil temps steadily start counting down at first quite quick then slowing as it reached 180degrees! I unplugged cooler fan shut off car and called it good for the day as I walked towards house I saw UPS man coming towards house with package, it was the add a circuit I was waiting on. I turned back and installed it and connected to temp switch wires. I quit for the day and couldn't wait to put it the test the next day.
Fast forward 2 weeks 5 cruises several high speedpulls and a lot of cruising in hot 100+degree weather. Yesterday (7-29-15) here in SA was one of the hottest days so far this year news said 105 car was showing 108degrees and we were out in the heat.
I'm happy to say that the entire time water temps have never exceeded 200degrees and oil temps bounce from 215-210degrees. The highest oil temp I ever saw was 217degrees but then I guess fan kicked in while in traffic and it dropped to 210 and then repeat 215-210.
Temp switch was supposed to be 200-190 but I guess its either the location of temp switch relative to temp sensor location which I don't know its location or the temp switch itself.
After all that what did I learn?? I learned that yes our cooling system is heavily taxing each other and can cause over heating problems. If your stock your fine GM made the system to handle what they built (tracking the A8 being the exception) I never had the problem when stock but as soon as changes were made heat suddenly became a factor.
What I built works very effectively but it looks like frankensteins creation inside the fender well. on the outside you cant tell though lol.
I will be removing the cooler I built and go with an aftermarket system that I've seen for a cleaner and more reliable install oil cooler.(I would like a fan installed in it though)
As for the brake duct cooler I was going to go with a Ram air system anyways which is why it didn't bother me to chop the factory one up.
Ill be out basically a wheel well liner for passenger side that I can pick up here on forum.
If I was a fabricator I'd clean it up or fabricate something better but I don't want to mess with it. I scratched that itch and I'm moving on.
Thanks for reading and good luck guys.
Here's a pic I took of cooler I took while working on mounting location.
Fantastic work!!! I've said all along that uncoupling the damn water and engine oil systems is what has been necessary to (hopefully) cure the overheating issues with this car. The 190dF thermostat still allows for the engine to warm up sufficiently for emissions purposes, but it then appears that your system manages increases above that well. Certainly your temps in your modified car are substantially lower.
Its a shame that you don't road 'race' the car as it would be awesome to see if it works well in sustained WOT applications for 20-25 minutes.
I believe the car oil temperature sensor is in the dry sump tank so its reading won't perfectly correspond to the fan switch setting but it sounds like your system is maintaining the temperature where it needs to be in your current driving.
One of the benefits of the integrated oil to water heat exchanger mounted to the engine block is the ability to avoid the pressure drop common to a remote cooler with supporting supply lines approach however the inability of the integrated cooler to maintain reasonable oil temperature under the high stress conditions requiring this high pressure for the mains negates its supposed advantage. The added radiator used in M7 applications definitely helps but a properly designed GM solution would more likely involve a separate coolant circuit (pump and heat exchanger of sufficient size) for the oil cooler. The liquid heat exchanger could be mounted in any convenient location since pressure drop wouldn't be of concern.
One of the benefits of the integrated oil to water heat exchanger mounted to the engine block is the ability to avoid the pressure drop common to a remote cooler with supporting supply lines approach
Any heat exchanger will produce a pressure drop.
One of the main advantages of an oil cooler integrated with the main engine coolant system is that it will provide faster oil warmup. Put a thermostat in the oil cooler circuit which switches between the OEM oil cooler and the add-on cooler, and the advantages of both can be had.
Any heat exchanger will produce a pressure drop.
One of the main advantages of an oil cooler integrated with the main engine coolant system is that it will provide faster oil warmup. Put a thermostat in the oil cooler circuit which switches between the OEM oil cooler and the add-on cooler, and the advantages of both can be had.
that would be very nice and by looking at the plumbing also very doable. What I liked about the built in thermostat in the unit I installed is that it bypasses approximately 5% to the cooler while warming up to prevent shocking the system with cold oil. Also the built in thermostat is easily rebuildable or can swap out for colder or warmer one.
I have noticed that the water warms a lot faster than the oil now but still hasn't been over 200 degrees. Oil still bounces between 215-210. On my 3rd week with it and so far so good.
Any heat exchanger will produce a pressure drop.
One of the main advantages of an oil cooler integrated with the main engine coolant system is that it will provide faster oil warmup. Put a thermostat in the oil cooler circuit which switches between the OEM oil cooler and the add-on cooler, and the advantages of both can be had.
I agree that every heat exchanger provides a pressure drop but the additional supply and return lines for a remote mounted cooler add to the pressure drop. Tadge noted this problem in one of the Ask Tadge questions leaving an opening for a warranty issue if a remote oil cooler is added. With properly sized lines I don't think that is a real issue but if an internal lubricated engine part fails GM might raise a warranty stink.
I personally think your solution is a very good one and it is an unflattering reflection upon GM that they didn't implement a proper external oil cooler during design OR design an engine cooling system with a large enough radiator fed with enough airflow to handle both coolant plus oil heat rejection.
Any heat exchanger will produce a pressure drop.
One of the main advantages of an oil cooler integrated with the main engine coolant system is that it will provide faster oil warmup. Put a thermostat in the oil cooler circuit which switches between the OEM oil cooler and the add-on cooler, and the advantages of both can be had.
Hadn’t noticed but yes I didn’t track my car and still don’t at least not the twistys. 1/4 and 1/2mile is where the car lives. I did the oil cooler delete mainly because after car was modded oil temps were to what I personally considered high. 250+ just cruising??? Really?? To each their own but to me that was unacceptable. I’ve had a gentleman reach for more pics of the assembly and I promised him I would take more as soon as I get the car back from shop. I doing an LME F-1X build currently and the shop is 5hrs away. But as the last post suggested a thermostat would totally be the best of both worlds.
Here is a pic of my new engine in its current form.
maybe he didn't run his car on track to test the temps, but i wouldn't think it takes a genius to figure out when you replace an OEM insufficient cooling item with an aftermarket, larger, more efficient piece and put it where it gets a ton more airflow AWAY from other heat sources, that it will be cooler in every condition when compared to the oem install... at least, that's my take on it...
I believe the car oil temperature sensor is in the dry sump tank so its reading won't perfectly correspond to the fan switch setting but it sounds like your system is maintaining the temperature where it needs to be in your current driving.
One of the benefits of the integrated oil to water heat exchanger mounted to the engine block is the ability to avoid the pressure drop common to a remote cooler with supporting supply lines approach however the inability of the integrated cooler to maintain reasonable oil temperature under the high stress conditions requiring this high pressure for the mains negates its supposed advantage. The added radiator used in M7 applications definitely helps but a properly designed GM solution would more likely involve a separate coolant circuit (pump and heat exchanger of sufficient size) for the oil cooler. The liquid heat exchanger could be mounted in any convenient location since pressure drop wouldn't be of concern.
would you add another cooler to the current radiator circuit in series with the existent radiator, or?
maybe he didn't run his car on track to test the temps, but i wouldn't think it takes a genius to figure out when you replace an OEM insufficient cooling item with an aftermarket, larger, more efficient piece and put it where it gets a ton more airflow AWAY from other heat sources, that it will be cooler in every condition when compared to the oem install... at least, that's my take on it...
have you done any data logging of your oil pressure? I was going to do something similar to your idea, but now that people are mentioning oil pressure drop, im a bit spooked. I do drive the car hard
Any heat exchanger will produce a pressure drop.
One of the main advantages of an oil cooler integrated with the main engine coolant system is that it will provide faster oil warmup. Put a thermostat in the oil cooler circuit which switches between the OEM oil cooler and the add-on cooler, and the advantages of both can be had.
so, even if one increased the size of the "exchanger" that is within the motor (i am unsure how they do it in the zr1 vs the z06) you are saying there is still a pressure drop, so his way of doing an oil cooler to the front right corner of the car is not a huge drawback with oil pressure? or are you saying it is? I am non opinionated on this, and am trying to learn.
so, even if one increased the size of the "exchanger" that is within the motor (i am unsure how they do it in the zr1 vs the z06) you are saying there is still a pressure drop, so his way of doing an oil cooler to the front right corner of the car is not a huge drawback with oil pressure? or are you saying it is? I am non opinionated on this, and am trying to learn.
Pressure drop just doesn’t make sense to me as we all know cooler oil has more pressure than hot and if your pump is putting out for instance 30psi well 30psi is 30psi and I don’t see how where there will be a pressure drop if all the oil is doing is making a circle thru the cooler and coming right back and into the same port it was designed to do.
07-30-2017, 12:54 PM
My oil cooler delete DIY that is strictly FYI
That is what I did in the c5. worked great.
