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Z06 wheel bending questions

 
Old 06-04-2019, 11:26 AM
  #41  
ZR1Bob
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I just posted above (https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...om-hunter.html) about trying to locate nearby the newer Hunter Revolution Tire Changer that does not put bars on the rim but removes the tire without human involvement. As noted, when I need tires later this year I will be looking for a tire dealer with one of these machines. Our local BMW dealer (my former employer) has one, as do its companion Mercedes and Land Rover dealerships. They are used to dealing with picky customers with large wheels and low profile tires so they felt the investment was worth it in terms of customer satisfaction and minimal wheel damage. While that won't address the issue of bent wheels from road hits, it might lessen the chance of damage when changing tires. --Bob

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Old 06-04-2019, 10:36 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Road machine View Post
The problem with your theory, is that if all the wheels on our Corvettes are made the same...and they are.....then why are they not all failing.(in fact that vast majority are not) The issue is not nearly as common as you and a few others make it sound. And the fact of the matter is that any wheel will bend if it hits something hard enough. You act like a class action law suit is some kind of proof of an issue.....but as we all know anybody can file a law suit.....winning it is something else.....let us know when the class action is won, because until then it is just another frivolous suit like all the others destroying this country.


To the op.....read the ask Tadge thread. It is not about bent wheels, it is about center lock wheels but it addresses the construction of our wheels. You cannot drive a car like a Z06 ( or Ferrari or Lambo, etc) as though it were a pick up truck. The low profile tires on all of these cars are meant to give you excellent lateral traction but the sacrifice is very little impact protection. But that comes not from the wheel design but the tire design. So as I have said over and over again if you drive a car like this you must avoid bad pot holes raised lips etc. If not you will bend a wheel. If you bend a wheel and do not get it fixed, it will eventually crack. The other thing you should know about a car like this is that if you get a nail or screw in a tire, it cannot be repaired. This is due to the speed rating of the tire and no repair shop will fix it. Also if you have more than a few hundred miles on the car when you get a flat, you will have to replace both tires if on the back since the uneven sizes of the tires would burn out your posi rear. Look for future class action suits about GM not warrantying for nails in tires soon, as it seems that a bunch of children who cannot accept responsibility for their actions bought a bunch of these cars.


Finally one issue that must be addressed. The tires on these cars are unbelievably hard to remove and install, as are all such low profile tires. They are little more than a very tough rubber band. If you have ever watched these wheels being changed you would understand what I am talking about. It is very easy to bend the wheel with the tire machine. One wrong placement of the bead breaker( and it often has to be repositioned alot) and you have a bent wheel. Do you think that guy making minimum wage at your local discount tire place is going to take the blame if and when he does this? Don't count on it and don't count on his manager stepping up to do the right thing. I have not had to replace the tires on my new Z06 yet but with my C6 Z06 and all other sprots cars we owned, before I went to the tire guy I just put the car up on the lift and put a dial indicator on each wheel and checked for any bend.....I would video it as well. Only once and not on my Z06 (on my wife's Mercedes) did this pay off. After indicating the wheels and finding no bent wheel, I took it to a tire shop and after installing the new tires they came out to tell me the wheel was bent. I took the manager aside and showed him the video of my test prior to bringing the car over. After a very short attempt to deny they did the damage, he went over to the guy who changed the tires and came back saying they would cover repairing the wheel. They would never have done this without the proof. So protect yourself. A dial indicator is cheap and the test is simple....way cheaper than a new wheel and way easier than the BS you will go through finding a new wheel.
You are missing the central and simplest point which is that the quality control of the metallurgical processes in countries like mainland China and Mexico are inconsistent and consequently of dubious quality. The situation is no different than the wide swings in quality of the products you see in countless Chinese or Mexican goods. You have to know that the Chinese, in particular, care little about consistency and won't until the free market demands it or it will cease to buy their products. To claim that all the wheels should be bad in order to indict the wheels as a true problem is silly for the very reason cited above. You really need to get off the claim that people experiencing the problem are childish or slamming into potholes like idiots. I agree there are some dumb tire shops who have no idea how to change these tires and may well damage a wheel but there's no way that could account for the gross number of reports of bent or cracked wheels on cars with anywhere from 200 to 15,000 miles that have never even had a tire change. You seem like a reasonable guy most of the time until you get into the defend-at-all-costs mode and blame everything except the most obvious cause of the problem: cheap, low bidder wheels made in countries that are barely one or two generations out of feudalism. As afar as your contention the country's being wrecked by people who file class action suits, I would counter that the real destructive threat is that companies like GM use cheap foreign goods because we as a nation are stupid enough to put up with it. And, we wouldn't be in this position had we not let organized labor get completely out of control since the 1940's and allowed them to systematically destroy multiple industries by sheer greed on the worker's part.
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Old 06-05-2019, 06:25 AM
  #43  
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I did not have a bent rim until 13K miles. Between 13K miles I have 2 cracked rims and 7 bent rims. Yes....there is a problem. I did not hit any potholes or track the car. I have wheel and tire insurance so the rims were replaced or fixed but the problem is that the fixing process weakens the rims further so that they bend that much more easily. Many people are driving with bent rims and would not know it.. Right now I'm driving with 3 bent rims waiting for my Forgelines which I've ordered to come. The tires hold air and you would know there was a problem unless you paid close attention and heard a sound that kicks in at about 45mph and peaks at 53mph along with a slight vibration at higher speed that is VERY subtle but unmistakeable. It is this sound and vibration that clued me in to the bent rims when they were not leaking air (which occurs after cracking which eventually will happen as you drive the car). Many people who do not think they have a problem if they put their car on a lift will find out that they have bent rims.. An insurance policy is not a solution as you will have you car in the shop constantly as I did and they will NOT replace the rims unless they are cracked and leaking air and they do not always replace with new rims but with rims that were fixed that bend easily. The solution is to buy better rims or buy a better car.. Period. Those who say there isn't a problem are like smokers who say "I've never had lung cancer....these people must be spending too much time in the sun or not taking care of themselves right because I've been smoking for 30 years and I'm fine!" Meanwhile if they had a chest Xray or looked at their coronaries they might find out otherwise. I won't argue with those who insist that those who have problems must be hitting pot holes because they have no knowledge or understanding of how those of us who have problems actually drive or on what kinds of roads. I own 6 cars now and have owned 4 Corvettes as well as dozens of other cars, and have not had a bent rim problem in any of those cars since my 1995 M3 which bent rims like butter causing me to dump it at 28K/3 years Others had the same problem with that car which was notorious for bad wheels just as is the case with this car. There is a class action suit now against GM and if anyone thinks this is not a problem just keep driving. Time will tell.

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Old 06-05-2019, 10:33 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by tertiumquid View Post
You are missing the central and simplest point which is that the quality control of the metallurgical processes in countries like mainland China and Mexico are inconsistent and consequently of dubious quality. The situation is no different than the wide swings in quality of the products you see in countless Chinese or Mexican goods. You have to know that the Chinese, in particular, care little about consistency and won't until the free market demands it or it will cease to buy their products. To claim that all the wheels should be bad in order to indict the wheels as a true problem is silly for the very reason cited above. You really need to get off the claim that people experiencing the problem are childish or slamming into potholes like idiots. I agree there are some dumb tire shops who have no idea how to change these tires and may well damage a wheel but there's no way that could account for the gross number of reports of bent or cracked wheels on cars with anywhere from 200 to 15,000 miles that have never even had a tire change. You seem like a reasonable guy most of the time until you get into the defend-at-all-costs mode and blame everything except the most obvious cause of the problem: cheap, low bidder wheels made in countries that are barely one or two generations out of feudalism. As afar as your contention the country's being wrecked by people who file class action suits, I would counter that the real destructive threat is that companies like GM use cheap foreign goods because we as a nation are stupid enough to put up with it. And, we wouldn't be in this position had we not let organized labor get completely out of control since the 1940's and allowed them to systematically destroy multiple industries by sheer greed on the worker's part.
The company that produces the wheels for GM is a world wide company with a reputation for very high quality. While they take advantage of lower labor costs in countries like Mexico and China, the standards for materials and the production process is consistent. It is very easy to trace material to the original plant that made it, the heat lot that it came from and the chemical and physical structure of the material.....I have to do this every day. The customers I make parts for regularly require certification that spells out and certifies all of these criteria, and I am on the hook for any deviation from the requirements they impose. In fact if you really think that there is a problem with your wheels, you could easily take a sample of the wheel and have it tested against the chemical and physical properties that the material is supposed to have as 6061-T6 aluminum. Here is a chart of the chemical and physical limits of various aluminum alloys....https://www.unitedaluminum.com/chemi...uminum-alloys/. There are tools that can read the chemical make up of any alloy by simply placing the gun against the surface of the material and taking a reading. Do you think that GM would not do this as a simple sampling of the quality of a component that they are putting on their flagship vehicle. If you think they wouldn't, the question has to be asked why would you buy their product at all.


There are certain things in manufacturing that can slip by, but the quality control system employed by GM is as tough as it gets. To be sure there are design aspects of every thing made by man that can have flaws, but an entire industry has been built up to ensure that production is as consistent with design criteria as humanly possible. In other words GM may have a flaw in design but that will show up over time and is then easily corrected, and these are viewed as product improvement.( overheating on the track is a good example of design flaws fixed by product improvement) Deviations from design are much easier to find, and can then be traced back to the producer, which offers protection to GM and places huge financial burdens on the producer. ( the valve guide issue on the LS7 is a good example of this side of it ) GM therefor has no financial reason to ignore any flaws in wheel production, in fact it would only make sense that if GM saw any issue with the quality of the wheels, they would do everything possible to make the producer make good on an out of tolerance product. But if it is in tolerance and made to design specifications, there is no issue.


What GM and every other manufacturer in the world cannot control is the end user. For that reason things that are the result of end user abuse or negligence, are not covered by warranty. This is why GM voids warranties if you modify certain things on your car. It is why no tire company warranties against road hazards.....and it is why GM and all other car companies do not warranty against wheel damage. Because wheel damage is caused by things GM could never control. Bad roads, driver inattention to hazards, and accidents are all things GM or any other car company could never warranty against or they would go out of business.

Now if the design was the problem, as I stated earlier, all wheels of that design would fail, and there would be a much larger number of bent wheel claims....in fact everyone would fail at some point. That is just not showing up.

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Old 06-06-2019, 05:42 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Road machine View Post
The company that produces the wheels for GM is a world wide company with a reputation for very high quality. While they take advantage of lower labor costs in countries like Mexico and China, the standards for materials and the production process is consistent. It is very easy to trace material to the original plant that made it, the heat lot that it came from and the chemical and physical structure of the material.....I have to do this every day. The customers I make parts for regularly require certification that spells out and certifies all of these criteria, and I am on the hook for any deviation from the requirements they impose. In fact if you really think that there is a problem with your wheels, you could easily take a sample of the wheel and have it tested against the chemical and physical properties that the material is supposed to have as 6061-T6 aluminum. Here is a chart of the chemical and physical limits of various aluminum alloys....https://www.unitedaluminum.com/chemi...uminum-alloys/. There are tools that can read the chemical make up of any alloy by simply placing the gun against the surface of the material and taking a reading. Do you think that GM would not do this as a simple sampling of the quality of a component that they are putting on their flagship vehicle. If you think they wouldn't, the question has to be asked why would you buy their product at all.


There are certain things in manufacturing that can slip by, but the quality control system employed by GM is as tough as it gets. To be sure there are design aspects of every thing made by man that can have flaws, but an entire industry has been built up to ensure that production is as consistent with design criteria as humanly possible. In other words GM may have a flaw in design but that will show up over time and is then easily corrected, and these are viewed as product improvement.( overheating on the track is a good example of design flaws fixed by product improvement) Deviations from design are much easier to find, and can then be traced back to the producer, which offers protection to GM and places huge financial burdens on the producer. ( the valve guide issue on the LS7 is a good example of this side of it ) GM therefor has no financial reason to ignore any flaws in wheel production, in fact it would only make sense that if GM saw any issue with the quality of the wheels, they would do everything possible to make the producer make good on an out of tolerance product. But if it is in tolerance and made to design specifications, there is no issue.


What GM and every other manufacturer in the world cannot control is the end user. For that reason things that are the result of end user abuse or negligence, are not covered by warranty. This is why GM voids warranties if you modify certain things on your car. It is why no tire company warranties against road hazards.....and it is why GM and all other car companies do not warranty against wheel damage. Because wheel damage is caused by things GM could never control. Bad roads, driver inattention to hazards, and accidents are all things GM or any other car company could never warranty against or they would go out of business.

Now if the design was the problem, as I stated earlier, all wheels of that design would fail, and there would be a much larger number of bent wheel claims....in fact everyone would fail at some point. That is just not showing up.
Brother, lets be realistic about this. What you do in your line of work is not necessarily the same as somebody else. Like in this case with GM. The fact is that there are too many reports of wheel problems to simply write it off as a small number. The only sampling we have is from those who are on the forum. That's a fraction of the population of C7 wide body owners. To blindly accept or assume that GM is putting rigid QC controls and testing in place whether it be in China or Mexico is foolish. If that were true, we wouldn't be having this discussion but the fact remains that almost daily a new member chimes in that they just discovered bent and/or cracked wheels. You're making the argument that the wheels are fine and it's the drivers who are negligent or maybe even stupid. 'Taint so. The simple fact that there's zero reports of cracked and bent wheels with guys who have moved to forged sets pretty clearly indicts GM for putting wheels on a car that can't handle the car's normal intended usage. As far as the official dissertation from Tadge, let's face it; were GM to come out now and admit they are a problem, the blow-back and cost would be horrendous for them. Tadge has to try and make the case that the wheels are fine but the reality is that they aren't. They're cheap, low-bid and clearly vary in their quality. Foundries can make identical looking wheels and have some that are lower in strength than others simply because the QC process is different or not as stringent. The bottom line is that the OEM wheels are not well suited to the ZO6 and Grand Sports. The problem is real, wide-spread and not due to a bunch of clowns ramming curbs and seeking out potholes and road obstructions. BTW, I come from a family that has had several members in the metals business since 1920, so I'm not exactly a numb skull when it comes to discussing the subject.
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Old 06-06-2019, 06:10 PM
  #46  
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I absolutely don't doubt that it's a common issue but we aren't the only ones. I do think it's an issue with the size of the rim and the RF tire stiff sidewalls. BMW owners have had these issues for as long as they've been putting 20s with RF tires on there. I've owned a couple 3 and 5-series cars and bent rims on potholes multiple times. Winter around here requires plows and those things tear up the roads so fast the city can't fix them quick enough. Once I replaced the RF tires with non-RF Hankooks I never had another bent rim. Now, the suspension on a BMW non-M car is nowhere near our cars even in Touring mode but I do firmly believe its the wheel/tire combo mostly at fault here. I got the wheel insurance on mine since it was cheaper than a set of forged wheels but if it's too big of a headache to get wheels fixed/replaced when/if I have an issue I'll just go that route when the time comes.

That all said, I do think it would be nice if GM would soften up touring mode a bit more. That and a move away from RF tires would likely cure a good chunk of the issues folks are having.

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Old 06-07-2019, 07:04 AM
  #47  
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Please ask jenfioreally, same issue and we see this weekly on the C7s. We carry all the Premium Forged wheels and all utilize the best APP Forgings which are more costly than alot of others.

I personally run Forgeline because of cost/quality factors but any of our Forged lineup is fantastic.

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Old 06-07-2019, 11:37 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by tertiumquid View Post
Brother, lets be realistic about this. What you do in your line of work is not necessarily the same as somebody else. Like in this case with GM. The fact is that there are too many reports of wheel problems to simply write it off as a small number. The only sampling we have is from those who are on the forum. That's a fraction of the population of C7 wide body owners. To blindly accept or assume that GM is putting rigid QC controls and testing in place whether it be in China or Mexico is foolish. If that were true, we wouldn't be having this discussion but the fact remains that almost daily a new member chimes in that they just discovered bent and/or cracked wheels. You're making the argument that the wheels are fine and it's the drivers who are negligent or maybe even stupid. 'Taint so. The simple fact that there's zero reports of cracked and bent wheels with guys who have moved to forged sets pretty clearly indicts GM for putting wheels on a car that can't handle the car's normal intended usage. As far as the official dissertation from Tadge, let's face it; were GM to come out now and admit they are a problem, the blow-back and cost would be horrendous for them. Tadge has to try and make the case that the wheels are fine but the reality is that they aren't. They're cheap, low-bid and clearly vary in their quality. Foundries can make identical looking wheels and have some that are lower in strength than others simply because the QC process is different or not as stringent. The bottom line is that the OEM wheels are not well suited to the ZO6 and Grand Sports. The problem is real, wide-spread and not due to a bunch of clowns ramming curbs and seeking out potholes and road obstructions. BTW, I come from a family that has had several members in the metals business since 1920, so I'm not exactly a numb skull when it comes to discussing the subject.
I am good friends with the guy who was in charge of setting GM up to be ISO 9000 compliant. They are now ISO 9001..The latest and highest quality certification. That certification requires that all of their vendors meet the same standards, or be specially monitored to ensure compliance to their quality standards.


This thread asking about the bent wheel issue https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...g-a-z06-3.html has 47 posts and of that only two or three claim to have bent wheels and at least one admits to having hit something...and this post sums it up pretty well...

I would not be turned away for three reasons:
  1. Chevy built 33,000+ C7 Z06s so far. I've not heard of an extraordinary number of bent or broken wheels for the C7 Z06.
  2. Bent or broker wheels for the C7 Z06 seem on par with owners' experience for other high-end cars with wide wheels (Porsche, Viper, etc.).
  3. No one has claimed the wheels spontaneously bend or break. Impact is the cause. And that is (largely) within the driver's control

So your claim " The fact is that there are too many reports of wheel problems to simply write it off as a small number. " is just plain wrong.....there are about five of you that just cannot accept that you did anything to bend your wheels....the rest accept that this is a reality with low profile tires and wide wheels. To further claim that the truth of this matter is proven by this discussion, is the epitome of circular reasoning. To then further claim that there are no claims of bent wheels by people who bought forged wheels is ridiculous to the extreme....in one sentence you claim the the low number of complaints here is a small sampling of those who have bent wheels, yet an even smaller sampling (those on this sight who have also bought forged wheels) proves your point??? I think everyone here can see the silliness of that argument.

You then go on to claim that Tadge is lying to cover GM, yet the ask Tadge article has nothing to do with bent wheels. The article talks about center mount wheels and why GM did not go that route, and then he goes on to explain how the wheels are made. ( not cast by the way as you constantly try to claim, which is why I link to that article....to disprove the myth that our wheels are simply cheap cast wheels)

Your claim that foundries can make varying quality wheels due to their QC process is another quite naive comment, as QC is only there to catch non-conforming parts. It is the process that dictates the quality of the wheel. and as I stated the process is identical regardless of where in the world the wheel is made. As long as the process is properly designed the wheels will meet specifications. QC comes in when GM inspects the final product, and as I have stated before there is no reason for GM to accept poor quality or non-conforming products from their vendors.

And finally, I agree the problem is not due to a bunch of clowns ramming curbs and seeking out potholes and road obstructions...To the extent that there is a problem at all, it is due to the fact that some people just do not understand that road hazards can bend any wheel, and some people just do not drive with the constant attention needed to drive a car like this on the roads we have today. Referencing the thread I linked to earlier in this reply, you will notice that some drivers where very aware that they actually hit things....some complain that there is just no way to avoid some road hazards, and that is absolutely true, but that does not mean that GM should be liable because you chose to drive your car on such a road....I know the roads I drive, and if I have to drive a road I don't know I am that much more attentive, but if the worst comes to pass, I know that what happened was not GMs fault but mine or perhaps the town, city or state responsible for the upkeep of that road. To insist that GM should make good on bent wheels, is to demand that they stop making cars like this at all, because to put the responsibility of road hazards and driver error, on GM can only result in that outcome. Again as I said before no car company warranties wheels for road hazards or accidents, and to insist that GM should, due to the cost of their cars when they are far less expensive than equivalent cars from other brands, is just plain wrong minded, and if accepted by enough customers, will surely lead to worse cars if any like these anymore at all.
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Old 06-07-2019, 11:54 AM
  #49  
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This is just two parts funny and two parts sad. When I was a kid, I used to visit my grandparents in Atlantic city in June, then again late August before school started. Everyday M-F, they always watched this soap opera in the afternoon, something called "Secret TIdal Wave" or some other stupid name. And the thing was, someone was always cheating on someone, getting pregnant, etc. Funny thing was, I could watch an episode in June, then not watch again until mu August visit - and did not miss anything going on even though two months had elapsed.

Same here! Have not visited this thread for quite a while, and I see the same back and forth as I saw two months ago. I say, don't feed the My new forged wheels through a private deal will be here in about 10 days, after which I will shitcan the GM bent wheels for what have should been on the car from the beginning. First time in 10 Vettes, and probably 30 other cars I ever had to do this.

I will stop by again in two months to see who is cheating on who, who got pregnant, and check activity!
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Old 06-07-2019, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Road machine View Post
I am good friends with the guy who was in charge of setting GM up to be ISO 9000 compliant. They are now ISO 9001..The latest and highest quality certification. That certification requires that all of their vendors meet the same standards, or be specially monitored to ensure compliance to their quality standards.


This thread asking about the bent wheel issue https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...g-a-z06-3.html has 47 posts and of that only two or three claim to have bent wheels and at least one admits to having hit something...and this post sums it up pretty well...

I would not be turned away for three reasons:
  1. Chevy built 33,000+ C7 Z06s so far. I've not heard of an extraordinary number of bent or broken wheels for the C7 Z06.
  2. Bent or broker wheels for the C7 Z06 seem on par with owners' experience for other high-end cars with wide wheels (Porsche, Viper, etc.).
  3. No one has claimed the wheels spontaneously bend or break. Impact is the cause. And that is (largely) within the driver's control

So your claim " The fact is that there are too many reports of wheel problems to simply write it off as a small number. " is just plain wrong.....there are about five of you that just cannot accept that you did anything to bend your wheels....the rest accept that this is a reality with low profile tires and wide wheels. To further claim that the truth of this matter is proven by this discussion, is the epitome of circular reasoning. To then further claim that there are no claims of bent wheels by people who bought forged wheels is ridiculous to the extreme....in one sentence you claim the the low number of complaints here is a small sampling of those who have bent wheels, yet an even smaller sampling (those on this sight who have also bought forged wheels) proves your point??? I think everyone here can see the silliness of that argument.

You then go on to claim that Tadge is lying to cover GM, yet the ask Tadge article has nothing to do with bent wheels. The article talks about center mount wheels and why GM did not go that route, and then he goes on to explain how the wheels are made. ( not cast by the way as you constantly try to claim, which is why I link to that article....to disprove the myth that our wheels are simply cheap cast wheels)

Your claim that foundries can make varying quality wheels due to their QC process is another quite naive comment, as QC is only there to catch non-conforming parts. It is the process that dictates the quality of the wheel. and as I stated the process is identical regardless of where in the world the wheel is made. As long as the process is properly designed the wheels will meet specifications. QC comes in when GM inspects the final product, and as I have stated before there is no reason for GM to accept poor quality or non-conforming products from their vendors.

And finally, I agree the problem is not due to a bunch of clowns ramming curbs and seeking out potholes and road obstructions...To the extent that there is a problem at all, it is due to the fact that some people just do not understand that road hazards can bend any wheel, and some people just do not drive with the constant attention needed to drive a car like this on the roads we have today. Referencing the thread I linked to earlier in this reply, you will notice that some drivers where very aware that they actually hit things....some complain that there is just no way to avoid some road hazards, and that is absolutely true, but that does not mean that GM should be liable because you chose to drive your car on such a road....I know the roads I drive, and if I have to drive a road I don't know I am that much more attentive, but if the worst comes to pass, I know that what happened was not GMs fault but mine or perhaps the town, city or state responsible for the upkeep of that road. To insist that GM should make good on bent wheels, is to demand that they stop making cars like this at all, because to put the responsibility of road hazards and driver error, on GM can only result in that outcome. Again as I said before no car company warranties wheels for road hazards or accidents, and to insist that GM should, due to the cost of their cars when they are far less expensive than equivalent cars from other brands, is just plain wrong minded, and if accepted by enough customers, will surely lead to worse cars if any like these anymore at all.
It's pretty clear that there's no room in your mind for cause of the wheel problem other than dumb drivers and there's no possibility that GM bears any responsibility in the matter. Quality control doesn't just concern itself with testing a final product, it also includes SOP's in the manufacturing process. Quite honestly, your continued insistence that the drivers are at fault is insulting to a lot of people and, in the final analysis, just plain dumb. I'll let the other readers on this and several other wheel threads to decide who's right and who's wrong in this debate
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Old 06-08-2019, 10:35 AM
  #51  
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My new to me 17 Z06 convertible had 4 slightly bent wheels. The bends were found when I asked the dealer to check the balances of the wheels before I purchased it. They were repaired back to spec before I took delivery. The car only had 4500 miles. I wound up locating the prior owner who, surprisingly, I was familiar with because we share the same occupation. I spoke to him about the wheels and he said he was not aware they were even bent. He’s owned 5 Corvette’s and all were meticulously maintained.

My brother’s 16 Z also had 2 bent wheels at 1k miles. He was lucky enough to have them replaced under warranty. He has owned 5 corvette’s, always meticulously maintained them, and NEVER had a wheel issue with any of the prior cars.

So now I have 4 straight wheels on my car. I’ll be driving it on the same roads I drove my last C6Z for the last 10 years. I NEVER had a wheel or tire issue with that car. Time will tell if I suffer a bent wheel.

And to those that vehemently say that this is a driver issue, I sure hope your car doesn’t suffer a bent wheel, then come on here and change your tune. It’s obviously an issue.

And one more tidbit, the Speedline wheels used on my C6Z were made in Italy. The C7Z’s are Speedlines made in MEXICO...

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Old 06-10-2019, 05:32 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by tertiumquid View Post
It's pretty clear that there's no room in your mind for cause of the wheel problem other than dumb drivers and there's no possibility that GM bears any responsibility in the matter. Quality control doesn't just concern itself with testing a final product, it also includes SOP's in the manufacturing process. Quite honestly, your continued insistence that the drivers are at fault is insulting to a lot of people and, in the final analysis, just plain dumb. I'll let the other readers on this and several other wheel threads to decide who's right and who's wrong in this debate
You get me wrong.....I do not chalk this up to dumb drivers, I chalk it up to numb drivers. There is a huge difference between people who drive, even people who drive Corvettes.I drive nearly 50k miles a year...I see all sorts of drivers. I see drivers who care and pay attention, and I see a vast majority who talk on their phone while driving ( you cannot pay attention to the road when talking on the phone) and even worse some who text , eat, look at their laptops....all while driving. Do you think some of those people might hit a pot hole while looking at their cell phone??

When I went to Spring Mountain the school put is into groups based on how we did in off track exercises. Why do you suppose they did this??? On track the guys I was grouped in with were very good and never slowed the group down. Other groups had people who were trying to figure out how to change settings while driving on track.....some could only drive a few laps before getting car sick( how anybody can get car sick when they are driving is beyond me)....and others could not get what the instructors were telling them at all. Those were the people we would eventually catch up to and have to sit on the Start finish line to get some distance.

Your position is that the wheels are not made to spec. I told you that you could easily check your wheels to see if they meet the material specifications for 6061 T6. Have you done that???? Of course not....because the truth would show that the wheels are fine and you just hit things. If you notice who complains about bent wheels, you will see that the same people who bent wheels the first time bend them again. So in your argument that means that these guys are just unlucky and always getting those reject wheels. Again if the wheels were designed poorly then all wheels would bend (but the majority of us do not bend wheels)....if they are of inconsistent quality, guys who bend one or two wheels would not bend another since the odds of getting another bad wheel would be low. But if you don't understand that you cannot drive one of these cars( or any other car with low profile tires on wide wheels), like a pick up truck, you will bend replacement wheels and the replacements for those as well. So the problem boils down to drivers who just don't understand that hitting anything hard enough will bend any wheel.
And if our wheels are so bad then why do these problems exist with all brands of cars and with all sorts of wheels??? If you think GM is so bad in this respect, why not buy a brand of car that does warranty against road hazards for their wheels....I am sure you can name them all for us.
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:57 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Road machine View Post
You get me wrong.....I do not chalk this up to dumb drivers, I chalk it up to numb drivers. There is a huge difference between people who drive, even people who drive Corvettes.I drive nearly 50k miles a year...I see all sorts of drivers. I see drivers who care and pay attention, and I see a vast majority who talk on their phone while driving ( you cannot pay attention to the road when talking on the phone) and even worse some who text , eat, look at their laptops....all while driving. Do you think some of those people might hit a pot hole while looking at their cell phone??

When I went to Spring Mountain the school put is into groups based on how we did in off track exercises. Why do you suppose they did this??? On track the guys I was grouped in with were very good and never slowed the group down. Other groups had people who were trying to figure out how to change settings while driving on track.....some could only drive a few laps before getting car sick( how anybody can get car sick when they are driving is beyond me)....and others could not get what the instructors were telling them at all. Those were the people we would eventually catch up to and have to sit on the Start finish line to get some distance.

Your position is that the wheels are not made to spec. I told you that you could easily check your wheels to see if they meet the material specifications for 6061 T6. Have you done that???? Of course not....because the truth would show that the wheels are fine and you just hit things. If you notice who complains about bent wheels, you will see that the same people who bent wheels the first time bend them again. So in your argument that means that these guys are just unlucky and always getting those reject wheels. Again if the wheels were designed poorly then all wheels would bend (but the majority of us do not bend wheels)....if they are of inconsistent quality, guys who bend one or two wheels would not bend another since the odds of getting another bad wheel would be low. But if you don't understand that you cannot drive one of these cars( or any other car with low profile tires on wide wheels), like a pick up truck, you will bend replacement wheels and the replacements for those as well. So the problem boils down to drivers who just don't understand that hitting anything hard enough will bend any wheel.
And if our wheels are so bad then why do these problems exist with all brands of cars and with all sorts of wheels??? If you think GM is so bad in this respect, why not buy a brand of car that does warranty against road hazards for their wheels....I am sure you can name them all for us.
You just don't get it. You're trying to claim that the wheels are fine and it's just the drivers, dumb, numb or whatever. The fact remains that there are precious few, if any, reported problems from owners who've switched to upper level forged wheels and that alone is an indictment of the OEM's. I am not disputing whether or not the wheels are made to spec; the problem is that the GM spec for the wheels is inadequate. There's just too many instances reported to ignore the issue or chalk it up to drivers. And, please lay off the routine of asking me what I've done and then answer the question for me by telling me "of course you haven't". There's little point in verifying the spec if the spec itself is inadequate. And, the cynicism of asking me to find the answer for you or other drivers is childish. You're apparently calling anyone with bent or cracked wheels a liar, covering for themselves after having blithely ignored road hazards. It is, in the end, GM's responsibility to produce a car that can be driven on the street under normal conditions. A switch to quality forged wheels as standard OEM equipment would solve the problem. Your defense of GM sounds like you somehow take it personally...it has nothing to do with you at all. And, lastly, why do people like you always descend into the personal attacks?

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Old 06-10-2019, 11:24 PM
  #54  
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Two highly insightful and logical points below by Road Machine (which I highlighted in red).

And, again, there were over 33,000 Z06s sold. So out of those 132,000 Z06 wheels sold, how many actually failed? It does not seem like tens of thousands have bent or cracked.

Originally Posted by Road machine View Post
If you notice who complains about bent wheels, you will see that the same people who bent wheels the first time bend them again. So in your argument that means that these guys are just unlucky and always getting those reject wheels. Again if the wheels were designed poorly then all wheels would bend (but the majority of us do not bend wheels)....if they are of inconsistent quality, guys who bend one or two wheels would not bend another since the odds of getting another bad wheel would be low. But if you don't understand that you cannot drive one of these cars( or any other car with low profile tires on wide wheels), like a pick up truck, you will bend replacement wheels and the replacements for those as well. So the problem boils down to drivers who just don't understand that hitting anything hard enough will bend any wheel.
And if our wheels are so bad then why do these problems exist with all brands of cars and with all sorts of wheels??? If you think GM is so bad in this respect, why not buy a brand of car that does warranty against road hazards for their wheels....I am sure you can name them all for us.
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Old 06-11-2019, 06:48 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by elburrito99 View Post
Two highly insightful and logical points below by Road Machine (which I highlighted in red).

And, again, there were over 33,000 Z06s sold. So out of those 132,000 Z06 wheels sold, how many actually failed? It does not seem like tens of thousands have bent or cracked.
Quoting someone's opinion as the representation of a fact does not make it valid. What amazes me is that some of you guys can't grasp the idea that the wheels are obviously of varying quality due to manufacturers
that usually have no great concern over product quality. The idea that they must all be bad and if they aren't then the manufacturing problem can't exist is illogical. Not all owners are on the forum. The only measure available to us is through the forum so we have no idea of the real number of wheel problems in the overall number. However, we can project it by gauging the percentage of people on the forum who report the problem vs. the membership of the forum. Even a low number of 15% translates into a significant number with more owners regularly discovering the problem, it's obviously an issue. The simple fact that OEM replacement wheels are in short supply or on national back order is an indicator of the truth of the matter.
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Old 06-11-2019, 07:34 AM
  #56  
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Anyone try to contact Ronal (wheel supplier) themselves? May have to look into that.
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:51 AM
  #57  
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Another 4 bent Cup wheels here. Had all 4 repaired. 1 bent again then discovered rear wheels both cracked in multiple spots. Wheels going to scrap bin.
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:07 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by tertiumquid View Post
Quoting someone's opinion as the representation of a fact does not make it valid. What amazes me is that some of you guys can't grasp the idea that the wheels are obviously of varying quality due to manufacturers
that usually have no great concern over product quality. The idea that they must all be bad and if they aren't then the manufacturing problem can't exist is illogical. Not all owners are on the forum. The only measure available to us is through the forum so we have no idea of the real number of wheel problems in the overall number. However, we can project it by gauging the percentage of people on the forum who report the problem vs. the membership of the forum. Even a low number of 15% translates into a significant number with more owners regularly discovering the problem, it's obviously an issue. The simple fact that OEM replacement wheels are in short supply or on national back order is an indicator of the truth of the matter.
What he is quoting is just simple logic. If a wheel is poorly designed all wheels of that design will fail. If there is a varying quality issue, those who bend a wheel would not bend a new wheel. Let us assume your 15% bad wheel theory. If a guy bends a wheel and replaces it he has an 85% chance of getting a good wheel. And every new wheel increases the odds of getting a good wheel, because the odds are greatly in favor of a good wheel (85% chance of good wheel 15% chance of a bad wheel). Unless they are all bad, in which case all wheels would bend. The fact that OEM wheels are in short supply means nothing except that we are at the end of a product life so the manufacturer will not be selling these wheels in the quantity they were before, except to the guys who hit things, so they are ramping down production.
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Old 06-11-2019, 05:28 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Road machine View Post
What he is quoting is just simple logic. If a wheel is poorly designed all wheels of that design will fail. If there is a varying quality issue, those who bend a wheel would not bend a new wheel. Let us assume your 15% bad wheel theory. If a guy bends a wheel and replaces it he has an 85% chance of getting a good wheel. And every new wheel increases the odds of getting a good wheel, because the odds are greatly in favor of a good wheel (85% chance of good wheel 15% chance of a bad wheel). Unless they are all bad, in which case all wheels would bend. The fact that OEM wheels are in short supply means nothing except that we are at the end of a product life so the manufacturer will not be selling these wheels in the quantity they were before, except to the guys who hit things, so they are ramping down production.
Give it up. You're simply wrong.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:31 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by tertiumquid View Post
Give it up. You're simply wrong.
Yes when you cannot dispute facts and logic just say your wrong. Great response. Why don't you just give it up and go buy your forged wheels and give us all a break from your GM bashing. I am sure you will bend those wheels as well....and then who will you blame for your poor attention to the road???
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