Numbers don't add up on the C7 Z
02-16-2018, 06:05 PM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Numbers don't add up on the C7 Z
Guys - don't take this thread on C7 Z06's negatively - I am just look for opinions. I have participated in a few threads with good intent, but I have bashed the C7Z on performance from my driving experience -(btw the family owns a 2017 Z) - Just trying to figure out what is going -
1. is the downforce so greatly engineered on a stage 1 or 2 aero c7z car it slows it down this much. based on the stats below ?
2. Has government motors put something in the factory tune to keep us from hurting ourselves?
3. Is it the gearing
4. is it the air filter or intake
or all of the above or something.
For Example in the March 2018 Car and Driver a lambo huracan is listed at 3450 lbs, with 631hp and 443 ft lbs of torque and posts a 0-180 mph time of 23.2 seconds.
our c7Z's posts a 0-180mph time of 56.6 seconds and c7Z's have 200 more ft lb of torque and 20 more horsepower and weighs in identical to the lambo per this link.
http://fastestlaps.com/models/chevrolet-corvette-z06-c7
And the C6 Z weighs in about 100lbs less has 50 lbs less torque and gets to 200mph in 43 seconds per this link.
http://fastestlaps.com/models/chevrolet-corvette-zr1
I guess I should be proud my wife's c7Z has so much downforce - heck with nearly a 40 second deficit zero to 180 compared to a car that weighs the same with less horsepower and way less torque, she can theoretically drive it upside down at 30mph and it will stick to the road.
1. is the downforce so greatly engineered on a stage 1 or 2 aero c7z car it slows it down this much. based on the stats below ?
2. Has government motors put something in the factory tune to keep us from hurting ourselves?
3. Is it the gearing
4. is it the air filter or intake
or all of the above or something.
For Example in the March 2018 Car and Driver a lambo huracan is listed at 3450 lbs, with 631hp and 443 ft lbs of torque and posts a 0-180 mph time of 23.2 seconds.
our c7Z's posts a 0-180mph time of 56.6 seconds and c7Z's have 200 more ft lb of torque and 20 more horsepower and weighs in identical to the lambo per this link.
http://fastestlaps.com/models/chevrolet-corvette-z06-c7
And the C6 Z weighs in about 100lbs less has 50 lbs less torque and gets to 200mph in 43 seconds per this link.
http://fastestlaps.com/models/chevrolet-corvette-zr1
I guess I should be proud my wife's c7Z has so much downforce - heck with nearly a 40 second deficit zero to 180 compared to a car that weighs the same with less horsepower and way less torque, she can theoretically drive it upside down at 30mph and it will stick to the road.
Last edited by Mr. Gizmo; 02-16-2018 at 06:05 PM.
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02-16-2018, 07:52 PM
Tech Contributor
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Guys - don't take this thread on C7 Z06's negatively - I am just look for opinions. I have participated in a few threads with good intent, but I have bashed the C7Z on performance from my driving experience -(btw the family owns a 2017 Z) - Just trying to figure out what is going -
1. is the downforce so greatly engineered on a stage 1 or 2 aero c7z car it slows it down this much. based on the stats below ?
2. Has government motors put something in the factory tune to keep us from hurting ourselves?
3. Is it the gearing
4. is it the air filter or intake
or all of the above or something.
For Example in the March 2018 Car and Driver a lambo huracan is listed at 3450 lbs, with 631hp and 443 ft lbs of torque and posts a 0-180 mph time of 23.2 seconds.
our c7Z's posts a 0-180mph time of 56.6 seconds and c7Z's have 200 more ft lb of torque and 20 more horsepower and weighs in identical to the lambo per this link.
http://fastestlaps.com/models/chevrolet-corvette-z06-c7
And the C6 Z weighs in about 100lbs less has 50 lbs less torque and gets to 200mph in 43 seconds per this link.
http://fastestlaps.com/models/chevrolet-corvette-zr1
I guess I should be proud my wife's c7Z has so much downforce - heck with nearly a 40 second deficit zero to 180 compared to a car that weighs the same with less horsepower and way less torque, she can theoretically drive it upside down at 30mph and it will stick to the road.
1. is the downforce so greatly engineered on a stage 1 or 2 aero c7z car it slows it down this much. based on the stats below ?
2. Has government motors put something in the factory tune to keep us from hurting ourselves?
3. Is it the gearing
4. is it the air filter or intake
or all of the above or something.
For Example in the March 2018 Car and Driver a lambo huracan is listed at 3450 lbs, with 631hp and 443 ft lbs of torque and posts a 0-180 mph time of 23.2 seconds.
our c7Z's posts a 0-180mph time of 56.6 seconds and c7Z's have 200 more ft lb of torque and 20 more horsepower and weighs in identical to the lambo per this link.
http://fastestlaps.com/models/chevrolet-corvette-z06-c7
And the C6 Z weighs in about 100lbs less has 50 lbs less torque and gets to 200mph in 43 seconds per this link.
http://fastestlaps.com/models/chevrolet-corvette-zr1
I guess I should be proud my wife's c7Z has so much downforce - heck with nearly a 40 second deficit zero to 180 compared to a car that weighs the same with less horsepower and way less torque, she can theoretically drive it upside down at 30mph and it will stick to the road.
Which one did C&D say was faster during their Lightening Lap testing?
I suspect the Z06 which is why it has the extra Aero.
The 15Z did it in 2:44.6 and the 15 Huracan did it in 2:47.5. Here is what C&D said about the Z06 Aero:
"Carbon-fiber feathers cover the body—not for flying, but to keep the car grounded. Gurney flaps, spoilers, and splitters push the car into the tarmac and make the impossible possible. You can, for example, accelerate through the last half of the Climbing Esses, which eats the speed of lesser cars. In the Z06 you enter at 134.8 mph, average 128.4 mph, and leave going 122.6 mph while cornering at 1.47 g’s. That’s a drop of just 12 mph versus the McLaren’s 34-mph speed loss. Imagine tripling the speed most people drive on a freeway on-ramp and you’ll have an idea of what it’s like to drive a Z06 through those esses. Even a supercar like the Lamborghini Huracán can’t hang with the Vette there; one of us tried it and ended up mowing a Lambor*ghini-wide fairway through the grass.
With big downforce comes big drag. Even marshaling 650 horsepower, we could only hit 153.5 mph on the long straight. Wind resistance, attributable to and commensurate with the downforce produced, is so extreme that the act of shifting from fourth to fifth eats 1.3 mph. Think about that: The brief lift off the throttle during the shift is a 0.3-g braking event, which is about how much stopping power most drivers use on the street. Fortunately, the seven-speed gearbox accepts ridiculously quick shifts. On the back straight, from clutch in to clutch out, the shift from third to fourth takes 0.4 second."
Your driving may leave a little to be desired from a speed standpoint. You have to stand on the throttle until you reach those prodigious speeds and you can't do that safely on any public road in the US. Are you pulling over 1.25 Gs in the corners when you are driving? Turn on your PDR and record your spirited driving and see where you fall on the scale of aggressive driving.
There is a reason why we track rats love the Z06. It hauls butt and leaves the others in the dust. It gets around corners in an amazing fashion.
Bill
02-16-2018, 06:07 PM
#2
Race Director
Member Since: Jul 2007
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these were conversations we had in 2014/2015 honestly. my recommendation is searching the forum and reading rather than starting your own thread and making all of us relive the same bullshit all over again.
there are extensive answers to all of your questions.
there are extensive answers to all of your questions.
02-16-2018, 06:21 PM
#3
I went from a 2009 to a 2015 Z06 and have commented on this several times. I ran both to high speeds countless times in MT on the same roads, and the C7Z just plain falls flat on its face above 150mph compared to the C6Z.
I imagine the lambo is so much faster because it has even lower drag. That car has active zero, right? You have to wonder if the roots blower on the C7Z is just too inefficient up there and generating too much heat.
You might enjoy reading this thread:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...odynamics.html
I imagine the lambo is so much faster because it has even lower drag. That car has active zero, right? You have to wonder if the roots blower on the C7Z is just too inefficient up there and generating too much heat.
You might enjoy reading this thread:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...odynamics.html
02-16-2018, 06:32 PM
#4
Race Director
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02-16-2018, 07:02 PM
#6
I believe it's all in the aero. The car is built to stick to the track and handle. Up to 150 MPH it's no slouch. On the street where aero plays zero role it's a beast. Just depends why you bought the car. Mine puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. I haven't even hit 100 mph in it because I value my license and haven't been to the track yet.
02-16-2018, 07:24 PM
#7
Drifting
Member Since: Jan 2013
Location: Between Boston and the cape
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you should have bought a car that is fast to 180. trade the vette for a lambo. my car is more than fast for the local road courses that i drive it on. I've only had it to 160. don't think i will go much faster than that. lets face it, the car is not perfect but for the money its hard to beat. I'm sure the new zr1 will be faster top end. maybe you should buy one of those if you can spend the extra money.
02-16-2018, 07:40 PM
#8
The large rear wicker works wonders for downforce and keeps the "wings are ricer" guys happy but it definitely hurts the car above 140. Just look at the ZR1 going 170 MPH at the end of the front straight at VIR compared to 154 for the Z06. On most road course it doesn't matter and frankly I'll take downforce over the float of a C6 any day. If you're worried about the tire to go from 140 to 180 then this isn't your car.
02-16-2018, 07:52 PM
#9
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Guys - don't take this thread on C7 Z06's negatively - I am just look for opinions. I have participated in a few threads with good intent, but I have bashed the C7Z on performance from my driving experience -(btw the family owns a 2017 Z) - Just trying to figure out what is going -
1. is the downforce so greatly engineered on a stage 1 or 2 aero c7z car it slows it down this much. based on the stats below ?
2. Has government motors put something in the factory tune to keep us from hurting ourselves?
3. Is it the gearing
4. is it the air filter or intake
or all of the above or something.
For Example in the March 2018 Car and Driver a lambo huracan is listed at 3450 lbs, with 631hp and 443 ft lbs of torque and posts a 0-180 mph time of 23.2 seconds.
our c7Z's posts a 0-180mph time of 56.6 seconds and c7Z's have 200 more ft lb of torque and 20 more horsepower and weighs in identical to the lambo per this link.
http://fastestlaps.com/models/chevrolet-corvette-z06-c7
And the C6 Z weighs in about 100lbs less has 50 lbs less torque and gets to 200mph in 43 seconds per this link.
http://fastestlaps.com/models/chevrolet-corvette-zr1
I guess I should be proud my wife's c7Z has so much downforce - heck with nearly a 40 second deficit zero to 180 compared to a car that weighs the same with less horsepower and way less torque, she can theoretically drive it upside down at 30mph and it will stick to the road.
1. is the downforce so greatly engineered on a stage 1 or 2 aero c7z car it slows it down this much. based on the stats below ?
2. Has government motors put something in the factory tune to keep us from hurting ourselves?
3. Is it the gearing
4. is it the air filter or intake
or all of the above or something.
For Example in the March 2018 Car and Driver a lambo huracan is listed at 3450 lbs, with 631hp and 443 ft lbs of torque and posts a 0-180 mph time of 23.2 seconds.
our c7Z's posts a 0-180mph time of 56.6 seconds and c7Z's have 200 more ft lb of torque and 20 more horsepower and weighs in identical to the lambo per this link.
http://fastestlaps.com/models/chevrolet-corvette-z06-c7
And the C6 Z weighs in about 100lbs less has 50 lbs less torque and gets to 200mph in 43 seconds per this link.
http://fastestlaps.com/models/chevrolet-corvette-zr1
I guess I should be proud my wife's c7Z has so much downforce - heck with nearly a 40 second deficit zero to 180 compared to a car that weighs the same with less horsepower and way less torque, she can theoretically drive it upside down at 30mph and it will stick to the road.
Which one did C&D say was faster during their Lightening Lap testing?
I suspect the Z06 which is why it has the extra Aero.
The 15Z did it in 2:44.6 and the 15 Huracan did it in 2:47.5. Here is what C&D said about the Z06 Aero:
"Carbon-fiber feathers cover the body—not for flying, but to keep the car grounded. Gurney flaps, spoilers, and splitters push the car into the tarmac and make the impossible possible. You can, for example, accelerate through the last half of the Climbing Esses, which eats the speed of lesser cars. In the Z06 you enter at 134.8 mph, average 128.4 mph, and leave going 122.6 mph while cornering at 1.47 g’s. That’s a drop of just 12 mph versus the McLaren’s 34-mph speed loss. Imagine tripling the speed most people drive on a freeway on-ramp and you’ll have an idea of what it’s like to drive a Z06 through those esses. Even a supercar like the Lamborghini Huracán can’t hang with the Vette there; one of us tried it and ended up mowing a Lambor*ghini-wide fairway through the grass.
With big downforce comes big drag. Even marshaling 650 horsepower, we could only hit 153.5 mph on the long straight. Wind resistance, attributable to and commensurate with the downforce produced, is so extreme that the act of shifting from fourth to fifth eats 1.3 mph. Think about that: The brief lift off the throttle during the shift is a 0.3-g braking event, which is about how much stopping power most drivers use on the street. Fortunately, the seven-speed gearbox accepts ridiculously quick shifts. On the back straight, from clutch in to clutch out, the shift from third to fourth takes 0.4 second."
Your driving may leave a little to be desired from a speed standpoint. You have to stand on the throttle until you reach those prodigious speeds and you can't do that safely on any public road in the US. Are you pulling over 1.25 Gs in the corners when you are driving? Turn on your PDR and record your spirited driving and see where you fall on the scale of aggressive driving.
There is a reason why we track rats love the Z06. It hauls butt and leaves the others in the dust. It gets around corners in an amazing fashion.
Bill
02-16-2018, 08:07 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
I went from a 2009 to a 2015 Z06 and have commented on this several times. I ran both to high speeds countless times in MT on the same roads, and the C7Z just plain falls flat on its face above 150mph compared to the C6Z.
I imagine the lambo is so much faster because it has even lower drag. That car has active zero, right? You have to wonder if the roots blower on the C7Z is just too inefficient up there and generating too much heat.
You might enjoy reading this thread:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...odynamics.html
I imagine the lambo is so much faster because it has even lower drag. That car has active zero, right? You have to wonder if the roots blower on the C7Z is just too inefficient up there and generating too much heat.
You might enjoy reading this thread:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...odynamics.html
looks like a supercharger upgrade will be in the cards for our c7z.
Last edited by Mr. Gizmo; 02-16-2018 at 08:16 PM.
02-16-2018, 08:09 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
I figured a 650 horse car would knock my socks off when I wrote a check to buy it. It didn’t. Boost2na’s thread convinced me to do a supercharger upgrade— maybe Calloway. Thank you for you patience.
Last edited by Mr. Gizmo; 02-16-2018 at 08:14 PM.
02-16-2018, 08:29 PM
#12
Pro
I've said it before and I'll say it again...
There's a reason some of these cars cost $250,000+ and some of them cost $60,000-$100,000. There's LOTS and lots of engineering that cars with that kind of price tag afford to do that cheaper cars do not. And the drag is part of it.
I know many think that Mike (Street Speed 717) is a tool and a douche but here's a video that does illustrate pretty well what the OP is getting at with a driver not scared to show it...You can skip to 3:35 if you only want to see the speedos of both cars one after the other. (Keep in mind, a 570S and Huracan are VERY similar in acceleration speeds, dead even with the slight edge going to the McLaren at 180+ due to Turbos (Boost by gear, these McLaren's are crazy underrated) and slightly better drag. The C7 used in this video was bone stock save for an Axle back I think and was a stage 1 aero car, no winglets, no splitter, nothing. McLaren is of course also stock.
The C7 Z06 really does hit a wall above 150. Does that matter to most owners? Probably not. They do not turn as impressive standing mile and standing 1/2 mile as similar powered cars I think.
EDIT: Before anyone comes after me, I am by no means saying that any information in this video (BESIDES THE SPEEDO) is correct, I don't know what he says before and after the fact to reasoning and justification, I'm just saying that the SPEEDOS DO NOT LIE. Watch the speedo shots starting at 3:35ish.
There's a reason some of these cars cost $250,000+ and some of them cost $60,000-$100,000. There's LOTS and lots of engineering that cars with that kind of price tag afford to do that cheaper cars do not. And the drag is part of it.
I know many think that Mike (Street Speed 717) is a tool and a douche but here's a video that does illustrate pretty well what the OP is getting at with a driver not scared to show it...You can skip to 3:35 if you only want to see the speedos of both cars one after the other. (Keep in mind, a 570S and Huracan are VERY similar in acceleration speeds, dead even with the slight edge going to the McLaren at 180+ due to Turbos (Boost by gear, these McLaren's are crazy underrated) and slightly better drag. The C7 used in this video was bone stock save for an Axle back I think and was a stage 1 aero car, no winglets, no splitter, nothing. McLaren is of course also stock.
The C7 Z06 really does hit a wall above 150. Does that matter to most owners? Probably not. They do not turn as impressive standing mile and standing 1/2 mile as similar powered cars I think.
EDIT: Before anyone comes after me, I am by no means saying that any information in this video (BESIDES THE SPEEDO) is correct, I don't know what he says before and after the fact to reasoning and justification, I'm just saying that the SPEEDOS DO NOT LIE. Watch the speedo shots starting at 3:35ish.
Last edited by Can'tHave2MuchHP; 02-16-2018 at 08:36 PM.
02-16-2018, 08:29 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
02-16-2018, 08:31 PM
#14
Drifting
Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Tucson Arizona
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St. Jude Donor '08
Numbers don't lie but the problem is you probably have an incorrect time to 180 mph. Here is a video of a Lambo with aftermarket exhaust doing a top speed run. Just so you don't have to calculate the miles per hour from Km/H 180 mph is 298 Km/H. It takes the Lambo Huracan 38.783 seconds to reach that speed. The 5 second difference between it and the Z06 could very well be the extra aero on the Z. I suspect the C&D article had a misprint in it. If you stop the video at 23 seconds you can see the Lambo's speed is only 265 Km/H or about 164 mph.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBdqOHfvHhw
Which one did C&D say was faster during their Lightening Lap testing?
I suspect the Z06 which is why it has the extra Aero.
The 15Z did it in 2:44.6 and the 15 Huracan did it in 2:47.5. Here is what C&D said about the Z06 Aero:
"Carbon-fiber feathers cover the body—not for flying, but to keep the car grounded. Gurney flaps, spoilers, and splitters push the car into the tarmac and make the impossible possible. You can, for example, accelerate through the last half of the Climbing Esses, which eats the speed of lesser cars. In the Z06 you enter at 134.8 mph, average 128.4 mph, and leave going 122.6 mph while cornering at 1.47 g’s. That’s a drop of just 12 mph versus the McLaren’s 34-mph speed loss. Imagine tripling the speed most people drive on a freeway on-ramp and you’ll have an idea of what it’s like to drive a Z06 through those esses. Even a supercar like the Lamborghini Huracán can’t hang with the Vette there; one of us tried it and ended up mowing a Lambor*ghini-wide fairway through the grass.
With big downforce comes big drag. Even marshaling 650 horsepower, we could only hit 153.5 mph on the long straight. Wind resistance, attributable to and commensurate with the downforce produced, is so extreme that the act of shifting from fourth to fifth eats 1.3 mph. Think about that: The brief lift off the throttle during the shift is a 0.3-g braking event, which is about how much stopping power most drivers use on the street. Fortunately, the seven-speed gearbox accepts ridiculously quick shifts. On the back straight, from clutch in to clutch out, the shift from third to fourth takes 0.4 second."
Your driving may leave a little to be desired from a speed standpoint. You have to stand on the throttle until you reach those prodigious speeds and you can't do that safely on any public road in the US. Are you pulling over 1.25 Gs in the corners when you are driving? Turn on your PDR and record your spirited driving and see where you fall on the scale of aggressive driving.
There is a reason why we track rats love the Z06. It hauls butt and leaves the others in the dust. It gets around corners in an amazing fashion.
Bill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBdqOHfvHhw
Which one did C&D say was faster during their Lightening Lap testing?
I suspect the Z06 which is why it has the extra Aero.
The 15Z did it in 2:44.6 and the 15 Huracan did it in 2:47.5. Here is what C&D said about the Z06 Aero:
"Carbon-fiber feathers cover the body—not for flying, but to keep the car grounded. Gurney flaps, spoilers, and splitters push the car into the tarmac and make the impossible possible. You can, for example, accelerate through the last half of the Climbing Esses, which eats the speed of lesser cars. In the Z06 you enter at 134.8 mph, average 128.4 mph, and leave going 122.6 mph while cornering at 1.47 g’s. That’s a drop of just 12 mph versus the McLaren’s 34-mph speed loss. Imagine tripling the speed most people drive on a freeway on-ramp and you’ll have an idea of what it’s like to drive a Z06 through those esses. Even a supercar like the Lamborghini Huracán can’t hang with the Vette there; one of us tried it and ended up mowing a Lambor*ghini-wide fairway through the grass.
With big downforce comes big drag. Even marshaling 650 horsepower, we could only hit 153.5 mph on the long straight. Wind resistance, attributable to and commensurate with the downforce produced, is so extreme that the act of shifting from fourth to fifth eats 1.3 mph. Think about that: The brief lift off the throttle during the shift is a 0.3-g braking event, which is about how much stopping power most drivers use on the street. Fortunately, the seven-speed gearbox accepts ridiculously quick shifts. On the back straight, from clutch in to clutch out, the shift from third to fourth takes 0.4 second."
Your driving may leave a little to be desired from a speed standpoint. You have to stand on the throttle until you reach those prodigious speeds and you can't do that safely on any public road in the US. Are you pulling over 1.25 Gs in the corners when you are driving? Turn on your PDR and record your spirited driving and see where you fall on the scale of aggressive driving.
There is a reason why we track rats love the Z06. It hauls butt and leaves the others in the dust. It gets around corners in an amazing fashion.
Bill
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02-16-2018, 08:34 PM
#15
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
02-16-2018, 08:41 PM
#16
Team Owner
Your such a troll! Anytime you want to race whatever tub you drive bring your cash we can go 50-180 anytime! Until then I gotta agree !
02-16-2018, 08:48 PM
#17
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
i was just looking for an explanation and am not a troll. I own a c7z bought new the day after thanksgiving 2017
rwheelz provided an explanation and a historical reference with technical significance. When others ridicule an observation because they are all proud and get butt-hurt when any deficit is brought up about the car.
Last edited by Mr. Gizmo; 02-16-2018 at 08:54 PM.
02-16-2018, 08:57 PM
#18
Team Owner
Yeah right we keeping hearing you knock the Z06 so much you demoted
it to wife's car blah blah blah! Who cares! What do you have in garage that is better? That your left to drive?
02-16-2018, 09:43 PM
#19
Drifting
The 0-180mph time of 56.6 seconds is not accurate.
My 2015 M7 Z06 stock with a Halltech and stage 3 winglets and the rear wing removed, went from 0-178mph in 31 seconds.
My 2015 M7 Z06 stock with a Halltech and stage 3 winglets and the rear wing removed, went from 0-178mph in 31 seconds.
02-16-2018, 09:57 PM
#20
i am sure you will win- as long as your not driving a c7z. Lol!
i was just looking for an explanation and am not a troll. I own a c7z bought new the day after thanksgiving 2017
rwheelz provided an explanation and a historical reference with technical significance. When others ridicule an observation because they are all proud and get butt-hurt when any deficit is brought up about the car.
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