Newton06

Hi guys, I'm at the inflection point most track rats go through; should I keep the OEM wheels and be limited to tire choices for the track, or buy a set up track rims/tires for events.

I really like the PSC2's (once they are warm). They are predictable, last a decent amount of time, and I know there is more time on the table with these tires.

The downside is they are nowhere near as grippy as a track rated tire or slick.

Has anyone tried different tires with the stock wheels (i.e. Trofeo R's) and had a positive experience?

If I keep the stock wheels for now, I will probably switch to the non ZP Cup 2 tires after they are destroyed at CMP next month.

Racing wheels seems to open up a Pandora's box akin to discussion wax or motor oil; offsets, diameter, running square vs staggered, etc. However there hopefully is some consensus as to what the 'golden' setup seems to be in terms of configuration. I know my track mentors with C5's seem to run square 17" or 18" setups. I'm watching with interest Bill's thread on the Pirelli 705 slicks for example (where do you guys buy these tires from?)...

Any advice/feedback/guidance would be greatly appreciated!

One last question, with the CCB brakes, is it best to stay with the GM pads? Fundage depletion has blocked my intention to remove them and put an AP kit on. At least for now.

Hrlyrdr22

subd

Atl-10Z06

I reached out to Hoosier last month and was informed they are working on 20inch R7's for later this year release. They did not give me estimate on time, but it shows promise that we might be able to use factory wheels soon.

Bill Dearborn

Going with a set of track wheels provides a larger selection of tires including used and new. Right now the go to wheel diameter is 18 inches, however, that can change. It used to be the go to wheel diameter was 17 inches but a lot of racing series moved to 18 inch wheels and the supply of 17 inch tires reduced. Right now you can get several different brands from various used tire suppliers including the Pirelli's (GT Racing Tires) and Hoosier's (Phoenix). New Hoosiers can be purchased for about double the price of the used Hoosiers. I used Phil's Tire Service for my last set of new Hoosiers.

As for aftermarket wheel sizes I would probably go with 18x11 front and 18x12 rear. I have 18x13 rears because that was the hot setup on the C6Z and seems to work very well on C7Z but the number of tires available that will work on the 13 inch wide rim has dropped. The 12 inch rim provides more choices although you might not want to go with a 345/30/18 Hoosier on a 12 inch rim. I purchased a set of Oz Racing 18x12 rims designed for the C6Z so I could run the Pirelli's on the rear since the 18x13 wheel was too wide for a 325 Pirellit.

Rim selection comes down to what is the lowest cost good wheel and good doesn't mean good looking since good looking and good wheels from a safety, durability and performance standpoint are not synonymous.

The problem is when you invest in a set of rims you are hoping the rulers of the racing universe don't suddenly decide to change to a different diameter wheel size which is what seemed to happen back in 2009 when the selection of 315/35/17 used Kumho V700s dropped to zero and I was looking at purchasing a set of 18 inch rims to fit my C5Z that would let me mount a tire that would perform as well as the 315/35/17 Kumhos. I never found a happy combination and resolved it by trading the C5Z for a C6Z.

The Cup2 tires seem to perform as well on track as the Hoosiers and Pirellis but tire wear is an issue especially the delamination of certain sections of the tread. Replacement cost has dropped quite a bit over the last year so they are only a couple hundred more dollars than a new set of 18 inch Hoosiers but I think the Hoosiers last longer. The beauty of using the stock tire and stock rim is you don' have to put up with the hassle of choosing race tires. If you can find a good set of used racing wheels like CCWs, Forgelines, HREs, etc that might be the right way to go. I got my CCWs from somebody who had a health issue and had to stop tracking his C6ZR1. I got the wheels and a new set of Hoosiers for a reasonable price.

The advantage of the used race tires is they run about $600 to $800 for a set of 4 plus shipping. If you go through 2 sets a year how long does it take to break even on the extra cost of the wheels. One advantage of using track wheels over your stockers is you won't have to invest in a set of new wheels when you go to sell the car as track usage can do a hell of a lot of cosmetic damage (like encrusted brake dust).

If you are going to purchase the AP racing brakes you should do it before your stock rotors need replacement. If you wait until the stock rotors need replacement that means you are going to invest in a new stock rotor down the line when you sell the car. Just like engine mods people aren't interested in having aftermarket brakes on a car as that can cause maintenance nightmares for people who don't track the car. Dealerships and Joe Blow's Main Street Garage aren't used to dealing with those products and will flounder over them if a person takes their car to them for service.

The big bite is with the front kit. It will run you about $2K more than just replacing the stock rotors and pads. The rotors last about the same number of days as the ceramics (13 to 15 depending) but replacement costs are about 25% of the cost of the ceramic rotors. If you change rotors once per year how soon does it take to break even and then get ahead? As for the rear kit you can pretty much buy the complete rear AP kit for the same price as you would pay for replacement stock rotors and pads. That is a no brainer. Just do it before the rear rotors are toast.

Do not use anything other than stock pads or the Pagid ceramic rotor compatible pads with the ceramic rotors. I did use a different set of pads and they may have accelerated rotor wear. The compound difference may have accelerated rotor pock marking which then drastically reduces pad life and compound placement on the backing plate may have resulted in the groove that developed on both sides of both of my front rotors. The brake compound on the aftermarket pads was mounted on the backing plate several mm closer to the rotor hat than the stock pads. This caused wear further to the inside of the rotor that may have caused the grooves to develop. I could see the compound placement looked like it was scrubbing the rotor in an unusual manner.

Since pad costs are pretty much the same whether or not you go with stock pads purchased through Amazon or aftermarket pads from various suppliers it isn't worth the chance of ruining a rotor. The performance is the same so why take the chance.

Bill

Newton06

^Thanks for the info!

That begets the question of whether the OEM rims can handle the load of slicks/racing tires.

I personally know a fellow-track rat that cracked two rims (out of the hub area) on his Stingray running the NT-01s I believe.

GM did replace them under warranty after some back & forth though.

fleming23

Same story, different year.

Newton06

Bill, thanks for sharing this info.... looking forward to seeing you this year & hopefully learning some things from you.

Are you coming up to VIR or CMP soon?

I'm taking the PCA ITS at CMP next month, instructing for Chin at VIR this weekend & helping out with Charity Laps there on Friday too.

I'll be up at Watkins later this year for the BMW ITS as mentioned.

5thGear

If you are going to be tracking the car, 18" wheels is a no brainer. Slicks take offs are around $500 a set and new Toyo R888R is around a $1000.
I have had 18" Forgeline on my previous Z06 and also another set now for my 2017 Z07. This wheel set is semi new Forgeline GTD1 18" satin black (built by Forgeline Sep 2017) that works for Z06 or Z07. The set was used for one track weekend and now has a brand new set of Toyo R888R so its complete and ready. I will know within few days if I will be keeping my Corvette or not and from there will sell few items.

Newton06

Thanks.

Where/how do you guys find these deals?

I got a wheel/tire quote for new Forgelines that was >$6k IIRC. Very nice mind you, but expensive!

Bill Dearborn

My son and I will be at the Tarheel Chapter of the BMW club event on Easter Weekend. Friday through Sunday. He is flying down from Detroit and will be co driving my car.

Even though CMP is about an hour and a half drive from me I am not particularly enthused with the track. As one other participant told me when I was there the first time and complaining about the tire wear, "You, don't bring your best equipment here." When I get back from any of the other tracks I run at I wash the car and it is set to take to Cars and Coffee. When I get back from CMP I have to disassemble the splitters and spoilers to get at all of the sand that has forced itself into all the seams. The crap gets every where and just doesn't clean up easily.

Bill

Bill Dearborn

If you want to purchase Pirelli Sllcks Google GT Racing Tires in Wisconsin and talk to Todd. Another Wisconsin used tire supplier is JB Racing Tires owned by John Berget who is sort of a character. GT Racing Tires also sells wheels. The first place I look for wheels is the AutoCross and Roadracing classified section of the forum. That is where I found my set of CCWs three years ago. I also look in the C6 Parts for Sale forum as what fits a C6 widebody will usually fit a C7Z.

Bill

Newton06

Your sentiments echo what I have heard as well. I did not know PCA Zone 2 was doing VIR at the same time.

Oh well, I wanted to complete the PCA ITS and might as well get some seat time on CMP, even if it's just for a session or two.

I have not signed-up for the Tarheel BMW event yet, but I'm pretty sure I will be there.

CW4L

Give me a text or call we have CF Track Set Specials on our track and load rated racing wheels guys from Forgeline!!!

440-915-6166

rb185afm

Cheapest option I found for a mono block wheel was CCW at $4200 for a set of TS12’s. 18x11 and 18x13. No bead curling is the trade off for cheaper cost.

Edit: I would not run slicks on the stock wheel. I cracked mine with the stock tires on the track. And I hit nothing. Given the number of bent wheels we are seeing, go aftermarket for a really sticky tire.

CW4L

We offer wheel knurling on the forgelines and I can promose you wont pay near 6k for a set of 18” jist shoot us a text and wont take 12-14 weeks that they are running with them. 4-6 with Forgeline

440-915-6166

5thGear

Bill covered the slicks tire suppliers. New R888R, go to simple tire.
You can get new Forgeline as low as $3600 to $4700 then youadd shipping, TPMS,.....Plus the cost of tires. They take 5 to 6 weeks to produce.


Mine are the GTD1 so they were on the expensive end but will make someone a good deal.

Newton06

Are you selling them?

Poor-sha

If you haven't already you might want to check out this thread.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-of-track.html

Much of what I was going to say has already been covered by others but I'll pile on about a couple of points. I've looked at lots of data that show the MPSC2 is very close to a Hoosier or slick. I've been hit or miss with the delamination issue and some of wore like iron but those are usually heat cycled for a session and then put away until the next event.

18" wheels definitely give you the broadest set of track tire options and the Pirelli scrub is the best bang for the buck I've found. 18x11F and 18X12R and I got a great deal from CW4L above on the Forgelines I use for track wheels.

I've been hearing the rumors of a stock size Hoosier for at least 2 years so don't hold your breath on that. It's always "just around the corner".

P.S. I took the plunge and signed up for TrackDaze at VIR March 19-20. I'll be loading up at Summit Point the afternoon of the 18th and driving straight there.

5thGear