Track alignment....is it necessay?
#1
Track alignment....is it necessay?
I am looking to take my Z to the track for the first time. My intention is not setting a fast lap record, I just want to feel the track experience in my Z.
I plan to change the engine oil and brake fluid because I feel that is necessary. I would like to know if I must also adjust the alignment for the track or I can run without track alignment.
I plan to change the engine oil and brake fluid because I feel that is necessary. I would like to know if I must also adjust the alignment for the track or I can run without track alignment.
#2
Instructor
Absolutely, The owners manual has great instructions and data regarding tracking the car.
Highly recommend it. It will help from eating up your tires under the hard loads and the car will be more responsive.
Highly recommend it. It will help from eating up your tires under the hard loads and the car will be more responsive.
#3
Melting Slicks
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2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (track prepared)
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No, getting your car aligned for something you are going to do once is absolutely not necessary! Changing your brake fluid is highly recommended, and doing the oil would not be a bad idea either. If you are not going to go out there and try to push the car hard, you can damn near roll off the highway and onto the race track and have very little to worry about.
Now if you plan on doing track days more frequently you may want to consider doing a little more prep to the car.
Now if you plan on doing track days more frequently you may want to consider doing a little more prep to the car.
#4
Melting Slicks
No.
#5
Safety Car
It's definitely not necessary to change alignment for your first track event. It might even be better to just run what you have now and not worry about it. The down side to a "street" or unchecked "factory" alignment (often pretty rough) is a slight loss of performance/grip at the ragged edge and excessive/weird tire wear if you push it really hard. Both outcomes can be avoided by not pushing it to the ragged edge immediately.
My experience as an instructor with newbies in high powered, high performance cars is mixed to bad. You will be much faster at the end of the weekend if you concentrate on learning the proper line at what feels like "half speed" in your early sessions, and once you're consistent and on the proper line, add speed gradually. If you do that, you'll end up going fast (probably very fast) at the end of the weekend (although it might feel like there's more speed in it if you push harder, there might not be).
If you can't find the proper line through the corners at 40 mph in the tighter corners and 60-80mph in the "sweepers," adding 50 to 100 mph won't help.
My experience as an instructor with newbies in high powered, high performance cars is mixed to bad. You will be much faster at the end of the weekend if you concentrate on learning the proper line at what feels like "half speed" in your early sessions, and once you're consistent and on the proper line, add speed gradually. If you do that, you'll end up going fast (probably very fast) at the end of the weekend (although it might feel like there's more speed in it if you push harder, there might not be).
If you can't find the proper line through the corners at 40 mph in the tighter corners and 60-80mph in the "sweepers," adding 50 to 100 mph won't help.
Last edited by C6_Racer_X; 03-14-2018 at 10:17 AM.
#6
Tech Contributor
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Most novice students are not that fast on the track. Sometimes they drive slower on the track than they do on the two lane road getting to the track. Part of that is being nervous but most of it is due to being mentally overwhelmed with the amount of data being pumped into them in the classroom and by their instructor. It is like receiving instruction from a Fire Hose. Some students have a hard time breaking the street mentality and it takes them a while to understand they can use all of the track not just the right hand half. After a couple of sessions I find a number of them improve drastically after a ride with me where I talk about placing the car on the track, the important points of each turn, rolling onto the throttle, etc. However, it still takes them time to get to the very high speeds a Corvette is capable of on the straights. That means the alignment isn't as critical from a tire wear standpoint since they won't be pushing the tires that hard in the corners. The oil change is in the toss up category but I would probably do it since the oil will still get fairly hot. Changing to a high dry boiling point brake fluid is a necessity due to the amount of brake heat that will be generated. Even though they may be going slower Novices tend to over use the brakes thus generating more heat.
Bill
Bill
#7
Drifting
^This.
If you're only tracking once (heck even a few times); don't worry about it.
If you're only tracking once (heck even a few times); don't worry about it.
#8
Le Mans Master
Save it so that the first time you wipe out you can blame the "Rear Caster Bogeyman"!
Although I doubt most first time track users will really need it, I think it also depends on where you car is randomly set up from the factory. Some cars might come set close to spec, others might be further off.
How much you "need" it likely depends on how far yours is off, but you can't know without an alignment.
[To be clear I'm saying a good street alignment is probably a good idea but I wouldn't run the special track alignment unless I was spending a lot of time out there]
Although I doubt most first time track users will really need it, I think it also depends on where you car is randomly set up from the factory. Some cars might come set close to spec, others might be further off.
How much you "need" it likely depends on how far yours is off, but you can't know without an alignment.
[To be clear I'm saying a good street alignment is probably a good idea but I wouldn't run the special track alignment unless I was spending a lot of time out there]
Last edited by davepl; 03-14-2018 at 02:31 PM.
#9
Melting Slicks
The speeds that a novice driver can get to on a road course are very high with this car, and since you won’t have the experience of using throttle control coming off of corners due to lack of experience, the huge torque of this car especially with a crappy alignment can get you in trouble quickly.
For that reason get a great alignment done on the car ensuring at the very least that it meets the recommended street specs including the very important rear caster. Even better is to use something like the DSC street/track specs.
I am surprised that some highly experienced ‘track’ drivers are telling you not to worry about the car’s alignment; I think that’s very poor advice along the lines of don’t worry about your tyre pressures; everything’s going to be just fine.
Bish
For that reason get a great alignment done on the car ensuring at the very least that it meets the recommended street specs including the very important rear caster. Even better is to use something like the DSC street/track specs.
I am surprised that some highly experienced ‘track’ drivers are telling you not to worry about the car’s alignment; I think that’s very poor advice along the lines of don’t worry about your tyre pressures; everything’s going to be just fine.
Bish
#10
Melting Slicks
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Au Contrarie. We are not saying "not to worry about the car's alignment" but rather, there is no need to get a track alignment per the GM specifications. To be completely honest, I very much believe you can take just about any car off a GM showroom right to the track and be fine as a novice. Run in Sport 1, don't drive over your head and I don't care if the car has +/- 1 degree of rear caster, it isn't going to kill you on track. If you start driving at the limit, either the car or your own, that is when it starts to matter more. If the car is exhibiting other tendencies on the street that may indicate an alignment problem (pulling, rear stepping out on accel, etc.) sure, get it checked, it can't hurt. Beyond that, no need to screw with camber or toe for a novice just wanting to experience some speed in his/her car. I stick by what I said earlier. Drive it, enjoy it and only if you start tracking heavily should you worry about it. Good luck finding a shop that can even measure rear caster.
Last edited by fleming23; 03-14-2018 at 02:17 PM.
#11
Bish is wrong. A first time driver will be cornering so far below the limits of whatever they are driving the stock car (any stock car) will be fine. If you exceed the limits of adhesion your first time out I can guarantee that alignment would not have saved you. Especially with all the nannys on the car. If you do the track alignment you will wear out the inside edges of your street tires. I have track alignment and a second set of track tires. My track tires wear pretty well. My street tires wear terribly.
Greg
Greg
#12
Safety Car
Bish is wrong. A first time driver will be cornering so far below the limits of whatever they are driving the stock car (any stock car) will be fine. If you exceed the limits of adhesion your first time out I can guarantee that alignment would not have saved you. Especially with all the nannys on the car. If you do the track alignment you will wear out the inside edges of your street tires. I have track alignment and a second set of track tires. My track tires wear pretty well. My street tires wear terribly.
Greg
Greg
However, my experience is that first time novices pretty much drive between 50% and 150% of the limit (and it's usually the talent limit, not the performance limit of the car).
#13
Le Mans Master
#14
Drifting
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You should have no problem running on the track without the track alignment. I ran street alignment for my first 2 track weekends and had no issues. Definitely do the oil and brake fluid changes per the track prep in the owners manual. Burnish the brakes if you have not done so yet. If you are still under warranty this will help[ make life easier if you have a warranty issue with the car.
And don’t say you haven’t been warned but prepare to become an addict. Car is stupid fun on the track
And don’t say you haven’t been warned but prepare to become an addict. Car is stupid fun on the track
#15
Instructor
Just curious for those who use their cars both on the street and the track, especially if you drive to the track (assuming you don't live next door but may have to drive a couple hundred miles), do you use a street alignment for the drive daily (or however often) driving and the drive to the track and then change alignment, do you change just before the drive to the track assuming a couple hundred miles won't really hurt the tires, or do you just suck it up and accept the accelerated wear to the tires because you wear them out on the track often enough it doesn't matter? Sorry for the noob questions but well, I'm a noob at the track think......agree totally with the prepare to be addicted.
#16
Premium Supporting Vendor
You should have no problem running on the track without the track alignment. I ran street alignment for my first 2 track weekends and had no issues. Definitely do the oil and brake fluid changes per the track prep in the owners manual. Burnish the brakes if you have not done so yet. If you are still under warranty this will help[ make life easier if you have a warranty issue with the car.
And don’t say you haven’t been warned but prepare to become an addict. Car is stupid fun on the track
And don’t say you haven’t been warned but prepare to become an addict. Car is stupid fun on the track
#17
Drifting
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Have the rear caster check so your car is not a hazard and go have fun. My shop has checked many for caster issues only for very little money. We have found about half the cars are in the negative or bad range, scary.
If you can find a video of the track on you tube study it so you are familiar with most corners and straights. I told my wife to do this before her first time and she did not. That was a BIG mistake!
If you can find a video of the track on you tube study it so you are familiar with most corners and straights. I told my wife to do this before her first time and she did not. That was a BIG mistake!
#18
Racer
If you can find a video of the track on you tube study it so you are familiar with most corners and straights. I told my wife to do this before her first time and she did not. That was a BIG mistake![/QUOTE]
The first time my wife went out without an instructor, and on the outer course at UMC, (she had driven both the east and west courses before) she was very nervous. I told her to find a Miata and follow them for a couple of laps. She did fine. After a couple of laps the Miatas were in the way again. And no offense to Miatas and their drivers. I am thinking about getting her one to replace her aging Eclipse.
The first time my wife went out without an instructor, and on the outer course at UMC, (she had driven both the east and west courses before) she was very nervous. I told her to find a Miata and follow them for a couple of laps. She did fine. After a couple of laps the Miatas were in the way again. And no offense to Miatas and their drivers. I am thinking about getting her one to replace her aging Eclipse.
#19
Safety Car
The speeds that a novice driver can get to on a road course are very high with this car, and since you won’t have the experience of using throttle control coming off of corners due to lack of experience, the huge torque of this car especially with a crappy alignment can get you in trouble quickly.
For that reason get a great alignment done on the car ensuring at the very least that it meets the recommended street specs including the very important rear caster. Even better is to use something like the DSC street/track specs.
I am surprised that some highly experienced ‘track’ drivers are telling you not to worry about the car’s alignment; I think that’s very poor advice along the lines of don’t worry about your tyre pressures; everything’s going to be just fine.
Bish
For that reason get a great alignment done on the car ensuring at the very least that it meets the recommended street specs including the very important rear caster. Even better is to use something like the DSC street/track specs.
I am surprised that some highly experienced ‘track’ drivers are telling you not to worry about the car’s alignment; I think that’s very poor advice along the lines of don’t worry about your tyre pressures; everything’s going to be just fine.
Bish
Do a C7 forum search on the title word "ALIGNMENT" and read what many have to say. Here's a couple threads to get you started:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...tting-sad.html
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ar-caster.html
Rick
Last edited by rikhek; 03-15-2018 at 02:36 PM.
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thebishman (03-15-2018)
#20
Melting Slicks
One of the first things I did was get the rear caster alignment tool and get an alignment using the DSC Street/occasional track settings. I track my Z06 3-4 times a year and didn't feel the need for a more aggressive set up.
I just got a set of Forgeline VX1 wheels with new tires and pulled off my stock wheels with the MPSS tires - these have 14,800 miles of wear including one track day (5 20 minute sessions). Both fronts and rears had identical wear - absolutely no complaints from me considering how many posts I've seen from people with cords showing on their front tires after 10,000 or less miles.
Do yourself a huge favor and get an alignment using the specs developed by DSC.
MPSS Rear - 14,800 miles
MPSS Front - 14,800 miles
I just got a set of Forgeline VX1 wheels with new tires and pulled off my stock wheels with the MPSS tires - these have 14,800 miles of wear including one track day (5 20 minute sessions). Both fronts and rears had identical wear - absolutely no complaints from me considering how many posts I've seen from people with cords showing on their front tires after 10,000 or less miles.
Do yourself a huge favor and get an alignment using the specs developed by DSC.
MPSS Rear - 14,800 miles
MPSS Front - 14,800 miles
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thebishman (03-18-2018)