HNK

davepl

I would say by MAP, once it gets into positive boost (or better yet, positive boost above about 4psi if you can get a switch).

You want your methanol available when it's needed, which is hot air under boost. So aim for that.

I suppose once could go from IAT but I don't know if that sensor reacts fast enough, to be honest, and doesn't always correlate with a need for octane effect.

HNK

FYREANT

Breaking out the IAT is used for safety. By breaking out the IAT you have your meth spray the IAT1 sensor and if the pump fails the IAT1 will sense it and the tune is typically setup to pull timing in that event to save the motor from damage. Meth needs to be activated by positive boost as Dave mentioned.

HNK

NicD

I can tell the people replying have never done it on this car before. Definitely use the MAF interface with the PD blower since it helps quite a bit being more progressive with actual airflow and not boost. Also breaking out the IAT sensor will do nothing for safety since the ECM uses an inferred value for manifold air temp that doesn't respond like it used to on the older ECMs. Your best safety with a meth kit is to either spray so little that it barely affects your A/F ratio and is used primarily for cooling, but you also won't make as much power as you could if you sprayed more and in that case you just need to pay attention and make sure it's spraying. Alky Control kits have a nice LED light that tells you if it's built up full pressure and is spraying, etc.

FYREANT

Have you -personally- installed an Alky Control kit on a C7 or are you making assumptions? I am glad that “you can tell” nobody here has installed an Alky kit on a C7, especially since I wrote the install guide for it here on the forum SPECIFIC TO THE C7.

Lets go to C7 IAT and Alky school:
In a C7 the IAT1 sensor is in the MAF, which is well before the throttle body. Alky is best sprayed into the intake tube before the throttle body to allow for atomization of the molecules for a better AF mixture, (unless you’re telling me all the professionals are doing it wrong lol). “Inferred value” huh? You’re right, Im sure that GM went to an inferred (delayed) value on something that could cause damage to the motor if not read in realtime. Lol

IAT1 is NOT inside the manifold guy, and therefore is NOT “Manifold Air Temp” thats IAT2. Again, IAT1 is in the MAF sensor itself from the factory which is on the intake tube. Breaking out IAT1 and spraying meth right before that sensor allows the car to be tuned to recognize the IAT (which it does in realtime) and when the temp rises above a certain threshold, all timing is removed to save the motor from major damage for events such as a meth pump failure. Meth starts spraying at 4PSI through a MAP (manifold absolute Pressure) sensor that is provided BY ALKY CONTROL. If thats not how it works, then the whole racing and tuning industry must be wrong..

Ant

davepl

This seem way wrong to me, but maybe you're talking about meth for additional fueling and I'm thinking about purely for pre ignition prevention.

In any event, MAF will tell you the mass of air that's being ingested and you could, I suppose, use that as a heuristic to tell you when to inject the alcohol but I think that's a poor choice because it overlooks throttle angle, compression pressure, temp, and so many other things that ARE important to preignition.

That's why I said tie it to boost. And I'd wager if you talk to Gene Snow he'll tell you the same thing.

But for aux fueling I have no information or input.

HNK

NicD

I've been doing this since 2002, BTW we are talking about a C7 Z06 not a C7 although what you have posted is still wrong. I also didn't realize that making a post on a message forum makes you knowledge or qualified. Let's continue...


C7 Z06, not C7 again. Either way, saying the IAT1 is responsible for timing retard is incorrect either way. On the older ECMs it was IAT2 for supercharged vehicles but on ALL E92 ECMs it's a calculated value called manifold air temp that referenced timing retard. It's not something you can argue, it's a FACT. Meth can be installed before the TB or in the lid of the blower, it's largely irrelevant though so not sure why you even bothered to mention it.

Yikes.

Again, yikes.

I will try to put this as simply as possible since it seems like you are having a hard time understanding WHY a MAF signal is preferred to a MAP sensor on a PD blower. A PD blower it can make 6 psi at 2000 rpms or it can make 6 psi at 6000 rpms. The airflow and therefore fuel requirements are VASTLY different at 6 psi at those different RPM ranges so WHY in the hell would you want a MAP reference for a meth kit on this car? A MAF is going to much more accurately describe the amount of airflow and how much methanol is required. If this were a Centri style blower it would be another story but it's not. I have talked to Julio many times over the years as well as many other meth manufacturers and as far as progressive or adjustable meth kits go they will tell you the same thing I have said.

Unreal

Nic is 100% correct. If you use map on a PD car you basically give up any of the progressive features of a good kit and just get an on off with too much meth down low and not enough up top .

FYREANT

First, A C7 Z06 is still a C7. That is a fact. The addition of a PD blower does not take away from the platform designation as a seventh gen Vette. Second, I don’t think you understand the difference between IAT1 and IAT2 and I’m not going to waste my time on someone who “knows it all”.

I’ve been working on cars longer than 2002. Im not sure why you mentioned that to begin with. I don’t see how that has anything to do with the price of rice in China.

I never said that IAT1 was “responsible” for pulling timing. I said that the tune can be manipulated to use it as a direct reference as to when timing should be pulled. Are you telling me that you “believe” that the MAF on a C7 Z06 specifically does not contain IAT1 and that the information derived from that sensor is not realtime? “Yikes”.

You are correct that meth can be direct injected, or tapped into the lid, as well as through the intake pipe. However, most people are lazy and therefore the most -common- way it is installed is through the intake pipe before the TB.

You seem to think that because a PD blower can make 6 psi at different RPM’s that a Centri blower can’t also do the same and wouldn’t also have different fuel requirements? If you think that to be the case then I say to you again, “yikes”.

Lets remember that you came in here swinging a bat saying nobody knows what they are talking about rather than joining the conversation like an adult..

Im done here.

NicD

I will never understand why somebody would argue about something that they don't have a clue about. Seriously...

There is a HUGE distinction, IAT 2 has a direct affect on manifold air temp and timing retard, not IAT 1.

Dude, really? The fact that the IAT1 in the MAF has nothing to do with this discussion should be relatively evident since it has no bearing on a Z06's manifold air temp according to the ECM. This isn't a C7, it's a C7 Z06.

Oh so you've been tuning vehicles since 2002 and you don't understand how an E92 references timing retard?

No it can't.

Of course the MAF contains IAT1, it's just that it doesn't have any affect on timing retard.

You have a fundamental lack of understanding about airflow vs boost. They are not the same and it also looks like you don't understand the difference between a PD blower and a Centri. The fact that a PD blower will maintain close to max boost throughout the entire RPM while a Centri blower's boost is directly relative to RPM.

Duh, of course I did because I saw the responses and the complete lack of understanding of WHY. You are giving completely asinine recommendations that go against what ANY meth company would recommend as well as any tuner.

NicD

Yup!