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Brakes for the track

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Old 04-16-2018, 02:55 PM   #1  
siglite
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Default Brakes for the track

Sooo, a laundry list of questions here. My brakes are about toast at 35k-ish street miles plus about 80-100 laps around Mid Ohio. So, not surprising that they're toasted. This raises a bunch of questions for my '16 C7Z.

1. Do I *really* need to replace rotors, or just pads. I saw the GM recommendation that if you're 3mm less than OEM thickness, replace the rotors.

2. Regardless of whether it's rotors or pads, why the hell is the dealership quoting me $3500 for pads and rotors? That's pretty much exactly the cost of a set of Brembos for all 4 corners. Are my brakes Brembos with "corvette" painted on the calipers?

3. Cost aside, what's a good track-proven alternative to the OEM stuff? Hawk? If so, what compound? I put Hawks on my evo, and lost a good bit of initial bite. I can drive around that, but are the Hawks as good as the OEM on the vette? Better? Do the Hawks (or whatever you recommend) improve their initial bite when they heat to race/track temperatures?

4. If I do go hawk, their website lists a few different brake sets.
J57
J57 23198733
J57 23198750

Those numbers are meaningless to me. Anyone have a clue what those are?
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Old 04-16-2018, 02:59 PM   #2  
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Here's a far better solution Lots of the Z06 track rats use these with great results.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...gest-ever.html
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:13 PM   #3  
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Here's a far better solution Lots of the Z06 track rats use these with great results.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...gest-ever.html
Yikes. Cost is a concern here, and fully replacing calipers, rotors, and pads with that system is two grand-ish more than whatever the hell the dealership quoted me for, what I assume are re-branded brembos.
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:16 PM   #4  
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Yikes. Cost is a concern here, and fully replacing calipers, rotors, and pads with that system is two grand-ish more than whatever the hell the dealership quoted me for, what I assume are re-branded brembos.
No they're not rebranded Brembos. And if you're regularly tracking your car this is going to be the most cost effective option in the long run. If you don't track often then stick with the factory brakes.
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:24 PM   #5  
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No they're not rebranded Brembos. And if you're regularly tracking your car this is going to be the most cost effective option in the long run. If you don't track often then stick with the factory brakes.
Are you sure about that?


Last edited by siglite; 04-16-2018 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:35 PM   #6  
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Do you currently have the factory iron brakes or the carbon ceramics? How many days/year do you plan on tracking your car? What pads were you running on track? How many sets of pads have you been through so far and how are they working for you?
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:35 PM   #7  
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First off your factory caliper is a Brembo front and rear. On to pads and rotors. If you are tracking the car I would get new rotors at 35k miles. Now pads are you looking for a pad that can do dual duty street and track or willing to swap pads for each?

I recommend Carbotech brake pads they have various compounds it just depends on what you are looking to do.

list of compounds click the link http://ctbrakes.com/brake-compounds2.asp I will be happy to answer all your questions let me know.

Carbotech part numbers for the C7 ZO6 are below.

F: CT1405

R: CT1718
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:38 PM   #8  
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Are you sure about that?
Not sure why you're pulling up info on the factory brakes when I was discussing the Essex set. Yes...I'm 1000% certain that the Essex brakes ARE NOT rebranded Brembos. Go look on their site and see for yourself.
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:39 PM   #9  
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Do you currently have the factory iron brakes or the carbon ceramics? How many days/year do you plan on tracking your car? What pads were you running on track? How many sets of pads have you been through so far and how are they working for you?
All OEM, non-carbon ceramic. Irons. I'm looking at probably 4 track weekends per year, and honestly, the OEM stuff was fine for me performance wise. I swapped out the fluid (per the manual) and they handled the heat I threw into them, with only a little fade, late in my last session. I was actually quite impressed with the OEM stuff. They're probably better brakes than I am a driver.
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:40 PM   #10  
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Not sure why you're pulling up info on the factory brakes when I was discussing the Essex set. Yes...I'm 1000% certain that the Essex brakes ARE NOT rebranded Brembos. Go look on their site and see for yourself.
I misinterpreted your post then. Yeah, I get the Essex are not brembos. I didn't know if my OEMs were. Seems they are.
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:43 PM   #11  
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First off your factory caliper is a Brembo front and rear. On to pads and rotors. If you are tracking the car I would get new rotors at 35k miles. Now pads are you looking for a pad that can do dual duty street and track or willing to swap pads for each?
I'm looking for dual duty. Thanks for the info on the OEM stuff. My dealership either doesn't know, or isn't saying, in terms of what's OEM on the car.

Quote:
I recommend Carbotech brake pads they have various compounds it just depends on what you are looking to do.
Ok. I can look into those. I'll bounce them off of my local buddies that track their cars. They're in a real smorgasbord of stuff from Viper ACRs to Miatas. I think they were saying "just get hawk," but I truly am clueless, and open to suggestions.

Quote:
list of compounds click the link http://ctbrakes.com/brake-compounds2.asp I will be happy to answer all your questions let me know.
Excellent. Thanks for the pointers, and for the info/help offer. 'precciate it.

Quote:
Carbotech part numbers for the C7 ZO6 are below.

F: CT1405

R: CT1718
Checking it out momentarily.
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Old 04-16-2018, 04:01 PM   #12  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siglite View Post
All OEM, non-carbon ceramic. Irons. I'm looking at probably 4 track weekends per year, and honestly, the OEM stuff was fine for me performance wise. I swapped out the fluid (per the manual) and they handled the heat I threw into them, with only a little fade, late in my last session. I was actually quite impressed with the OEM stuff. They're probably better brakes than I am a driver.
I'm surprised you didn't have issues with the stock pads but I'm glad they are working for you. If you want something that will better handle the track and will also work on the street without a bunch of squealing look at the Ferodo DS2500. If you're willing to swap pads and like the feel of the stock pads (at least until they melt) then I'd look at the Ferodo DS 1.11. If you want more torque (less pedal effort) then the Ferodo DS UNO.

Yes, I like the Ferodo pads and have run everything I listed myself. I get mine from Essex parts who are the same people engineering and selling the AP Racing kit which is what I would do if you are going to be tracking the car hard a lot.

If you are comfortable working on the car yourself then I would get the rotors from one of the forum vendors. They look to be under $400/rotor. I had no idea if you actually need rotors but usually you need fronts long before you need rears so I'd be surprised if you needed all four.
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Old 04-16-2018, 04:39 PM   #13  
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I had no idea if you actually need rotors but usually you need fronts long before you need rears so I'd be surprised if you needed all four.
Is there a way for mortals to tell if I actually need rotors? I've been on the phone all afternoon with brake manufacturers being that annoying customer that doesn't know s*** and asks a lot of questions. I've gotten good info from a few of them. I have my pad questions sorted out, partially thanks to some of the folks in this thread.

Rotors are the last question. I mean, I have a set of calipers somewhere, and I could go measure the thickness of the rotors at the edges, but then I'd need to know original thickness, and other stuff. Is there a way to just eyeball the things and take a good swag on whether or not I should replace them?
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:47 PM   #14  
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Post some pics of the rotors. Usually you look for cracks that are either deep enough to catch a fingernail or extend to the outside edge of the rotors. Some heat checking is normal with track use.
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:15 PM   #15  
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Post some pics of the rotors. Usually you look for cracks that are either deep enough to catch a fingernail or extend to the outside edge of the rotors. Some heat checking is normal with track use.
Fronts, best pix I could get with 'em mounted.







And one of the rears:

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Old 04-16-2018, 06:19 PM   #16  
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With that many miles and the track laps on top of the miles I would start by measuring the rotors to see if they are close or below minimum thickness. The minimum thickness should be stamped onto one of the edges of each rotor.

If you have any heat checks in the rotors that you can catch your finger nails in or have heat checks out to the edge of the rotor you should replace that rotor even if it is well above minimum thickness.

Didn't see your post until I hit submit. The rotors look good other than thickness. You need a micrometer to measure thickness. There are special rotor micrometers that permit measuring in the center of the path.

Bill

Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 04-16-2018 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 04-16-2018, 06:26 PM   #17  
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There are special rotor micrometers that permit measuring in the center of the path.

Bill
Ok, thanks. Heh, I have some high precision calipers where I can measure down to the ten thousandth. But they sure aren't going to tell me the width in the center. The little tongs on them are only about 2" long, and don't have a bend in them to allow me to reach the center of the rotor. I'd get a very precise measurement of the edges, which, you can see protrude. So, worthless.

I'm getting the tires changed friday (you don't want to know their condition) and I'll see if that shop has the tool to measure it.
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Old 04-16-2018, 07:52 PM   #18  
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I think they look fine. Usually you can see the grooves start to go away near the middle of the rotor if they are getting thin.
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:09 PM   #19  
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I think your brake rotors are fine.
​go watch this and get some good pads


A lot of people here recommended the st43 raybestos and the ds1.1 ferodo and i went with the ferodo since im more of a beginner. The stock iron brakes are really good on a c7z just need new pads and higher temp fluid!

Oh yeah, get new fluid too a lot of people recommend SRF but there are other good high temp fluids as well.

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Old 04-16-2018, 08:42 PM   #20  
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I will pass on some good advice I got from my Race Car builder/fabricator as I was starting W2W racing and quitting HPDEs as my adrenaline source.

He said that race pads should only be coupled with race tires and street pads with street tires as they need to operate as a matched unit. Now there are some crossovers both in the tires and the pads. So if you are running used slicks, then race pads with a high heat range is fine. If you are running MPSS ZPs than the stock pads are fine. If you are on SC2s than some street/track pad is fine. So just keep everything coordinated.

Now if you were happy with the oem pads buy more. They obviously worked well for you. In fact if you want, pm me and if you will pay the shipping I will send you my oem takeoffs. To cut the brake dust I changed my oem pads out to Carbotech 1521s at about 2500 miles on the Z. I have sold the race car and retired from all the track fun and bought a convertible so likely will never do any more track driving with my car excepting the odd Spring Mountain school on each Corvette and Cadillac V car I buy in the future.

Whatever you do be safe and have fun and keep the sunny side up.
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