ZO6 vs Sport Bike
05-20-2018, 10:04 PM
#41
CF Senior Member
Done it when I was on a Harley, had it done to me when I was on a sport bike, and seen it many times.
Harleys can be incredibly easy to launch well, not only because of the low center of gravity and long wheel base, but also because of the massive flywheel inertia and broad power band. Pretty hard to bog.
Harleys can be incredibly easy to launch well, not only because of the low center of gravity and long wheel base, but also because of the massive flywheel inertia and broad power band. Pretty hard to bog.
Dude, seriously. Just No.
05-21-2018, 05:33 AM
#43
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Hah, looks like every one of those sportbikes is "strapped", and that some have extended swingarms. In other words, not in their stock configuration, but set up specifically for the dragtsrip. Pretty uncommon to run into bikes set up that way driving around on the street.
For those who don't know what "strapped" means, it's where the front forks are tied into a compressed position, to lower the front, lower the center of gravity, and prevent spring rebound from adding to the tendency to loft the front end on launch. The clearest view is at .54 in the video, where you can clearly see the strap running down, with the bottom end bolted to the front brake caliper.
If your stock Wideglide won't pull cleanly under 2000 rpm under load, something's wrong with it. Consider taking it in and getting it fixed.
For those who don't know what "strapped" means, it's where the front forks are tied into a compressed position, to lower the front, lower the center of gravity, and prevent spring rebound from adding to the tendency to loft the front end on launch. The clearest view is at .54 in the video, where you can clearly see the strap running down, with the bottom end bolted to the front brake caliper.
If your stock Wideglide won't pull cleanly under 2000 rpm under load, something's wrong with it. Consider taking it in and getting it fixed.
Last edited by Warp Factor; 05-21-2018 at 08:55 AM.
05-21-2018, 12:13 PM
#44
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Your photo shows a recent-year Wideglide (probably a 103"), with computer controlled fuel injection and engine management. Unless something is wrong with it, it will operate and pull just fine, from idle speed at full throttle, all the way until it hits the rpm limiter.
Last edited by Warp Factor; 05-21-2018 at 12:42 PM.
05-21-2018, 12:42 PM
#45
Team Owner
Hah, looks like every one of those sportbikes is "strapped", and that some have extended swingarms. In other words, not in their stock configuration, but set up specifically for the dragtsrip. Pretty uncommon to run into bikes set up that way driving around on the street.
For those who don't know what "strapped" means, it's where the front forks are tied into a compressed position, to lower the front, lower the center of gravity, and prevent spring rebound from adding to the tendency to loft the front end on launch. The clearest view is at .54 in the video, where you can clearly see the strap running down, with the bottom end bolted to the front brake caliper.
If your stock Wideglide won't pull cleanly under 2000 rpm under load, something's wrong with it. Consider taking it in and getting it fixed.
For those who don't know what "strapped" means, it's where the front forks are tied into a compressed position, to lower the front, lower the center of gravity, and prevent spring rebound from adding to the tendency to loft the front end on launch. The clearest view is at .54 in the video, where you can clearly see the strap running down, with the bottom end bolted to the front brake caliper.
If your stock Wideglide won't pull cleanly under 2000 rpm under load, something's wrong with it. Consider taking it in and getting it fixed.
Sportbike? What is that a 400 CC? HD is the slowest bike and heaviest and has the worse performance bike out in stock form by a long ways. The HD company is dying a slow death!
My Z06 will stomp any factory HD!
05-21-2018, 12:48 PM
#46
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05-21-2018, 01:35 PM
#47
Team Owner
cc should out pace the Harley. The lack luster V twin design should have been scrapped 20 years ago.
05-21-2018, 01:40 PM
#48
Instructor
I race motorcycles and have won several championships at several clubs around my area. I've held lap records for a couple classes at Willow springs on various motorcycles.
I consider myself to be an OK driver. I did a lot of autocross years ago and I've done a few track days in more recent times. Did the owners school last year and a few track days in my Z06.
At my home track, Chuckwalla, I'm the new racer school instructor and I've won a lot of club races and championships on bikes.
On my 2009 R1 SuperStock bike I can do 1:50 laptimes.
In my Z06/Z07 with the cup 2 tires I can do 2:09 laptimes.
So I would say the a Z06 would not stand a snowballs chance in hell keeping up with a decent rider on pretty much any sport bike.
Just for reference, the guys racing ultralightweight class bikes (Ninja 300/400, KTM RC390 etc. Bikes with about 40hp at most) can turn 1:59 lap times.
I consider myself to be an OK driver. I did a lot of autocross years ago and I've done a few track days in more recent times. Did the owners school last year and a few track days in my Z06.
At my home track, Chuckwalla, I'm the new racer school instructor and I've won a lot of club races and championships on bikes.
On my 2009 R1 SuperStock bike I can do 1:50 laptimes.
In my Z06/Z07 with the cup 2 tires I can do 2:09 laptimes.
So I would say the a Z06 would not stand a snowballs chance in hell keeping up with a decent rider on pretty much any sport bike.
Just for reference, the guys racing ultralightweight class bikes (Ninja 300/400, KTM RC390 etc. Bikes with about 40hp at most) can turn 1:59 lap times.
05-21-2018, 01:46 PM
#49
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Mine is a 2010, 98 C.I. with computer controlled F.I. Unfortunately, what you are expecting is not what actually occurs and there is nothing wrong with it. I created THIS THREAD for you.
Case in point: In the thread you referenced, the term "lugging" is used. This is basically an outdated term, resurrected from the days when a combination of low rpm's and high throttle opening was likely to result in engine-destroying detonation. That's simply not the way it is anymore, with computer controls and detonation sensors
http://www.ls1.com/forums/ is a much better source of internal combustion engine technical information, should you be interested in that. (Yes, I'm also a member on both of these other forums).
Last edited by Warp Factor; 05-21-2018 at 02:29 PM.
05-21-2018, 02:06 PM
#50
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05-21-2018, 02:18 PM
#51
Team Owner
HD has been left behind but then again so have you but it matter's little the whole bike industry is down from it's peak. My liter sport bike would dust any factory Harley by a long ways. But it is for sale!
05-21-2018, 03:05 PM
#52
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In your post #45, your Harley "bucks hard and clearly complains if you subject it to a load under 2,000 RPM in 2nd gear or higher". That simply won't happen on a stock 2008 or later Harley, unless something is wrong with it (aside from it being a Harley Davidson
Last edited by Warp Factor; 05-21-2018 at 03:52 PM.
05-21-2018, 04:49 PM
#54
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A modern F1 race car produces more aerodynamic downforce than it's static weight, so theoretically, it could drive upside down on the roof of a tunnel. I'm not aware of any bike which comes anywhere close to that, or one which can pull 3.5g cornering loads. Please correct me if you can show good evidence that this is mistaken.
05-21-2018, 04:58 PM
#55
Race Director
05-21-2018, 05:28 PM
#56
Formula 1 is in another world - hyperspace performance. You're talkin 4 fat footprints with huge hp and light weight. Hyperbike has 2 little footprints. Traction, braking, turning all has to happen there. Z06/ZR1 - it can be close but acceleration advantage to the bike (but not top speed). Braking and turning will be Z06 advantage with it 4 fat footprints.
05-21-2018, 10:31 PM
#57
There's a lot more going on than power-weight ratio. For example, tire contact patch, and aerodynamic downforce and drag.
A modern F1 race car produces more aerodynamic downforce than it's static weight, so theoretically, it could drive upside down on the roof of a tunnel. I'm not aware of any bike which comes anywhere close to that, or one which can pull 3.5g cornering loads. Please correct me if you can show good evidence that this is mistaken.
A modern F1 race car produces more aerodynamic downforce than it's static weight, so theoretically, it could drive upside down on the roof of a tunnel. I'm not aware of any bike which comes anywhere close to that, or one which can pull 3.5g cornering loads. Please correct me if you can show good evidence that this is mistaken.
Last edited by Cercone; 05-21-2018 at 11:44 PM.
05-22-2018, 12:54 AM
#58
Race Director
Really...come to or near Houston. I’ll show you what the bikes around here do. I have 4-5 tracks within 2hrs of my residence, loaded with 1-1.5k hp lambos etc. Around here people Race their super cars and modify them. I really wish this was an argument, Its not. If I wasn’t only on this site from my I phone traveling on business I’d prove it to you. F1 vs hyper is one thing, a Zo6 vs hyper..lol come on bud. I’ve read a lot of your posts, your educated. The best I can do is show you. 281-785-3064 Jason. I have a couple places you can stay for free. It’ll be fun I promise. I truly wish you were accurate, then again maybe our definitions are different in this instance. Zero offense intended. I’m sure you’d beat my bike on any track in your Z, zero doubt on that. I’m not that good, more like a wuss and not bench racing.
And I agree, I usually agree with Warp....here, not so much
05-22-2018, 03:02 AM
#59
Le Mans Master
Interesting thread!
I agree in the fact that pretty much any halfway modern 750-1000cc sportbike will rape a C7Z in just about any capacity.... The only way I could see a C7Z being faster on a road course is if its a very tight, technical, short track....That's where the traction/grip of the C7Z will benefit... However if its a GOOD track rider on some scrubs, he'd probably still win. On any course that has any type of distance/speed, it will be serious game over for the C7Z...
I've been riding building/riding sport bikes for 20 years, about the same for building/racing corvettes....There really is just no comparison until you start getting into BIG power car stuff...
I'm pretty sure my lightly modded S1000RR would still have spanked my 900 rwhp Z06 on the highway.
I've still got these two...
I agree in the fact that pretty much any halfway modern 750-1000cc sportbike will rape a C7Z in just about any capacity.... The only way I could see a C7Z being faster on a road course is if its a very tight, technical, short track....That's where the traction/grip of the C7Z will benefit... However if its a GOOD track rider on some scrubs, he'd probably still win. On any course that has any type of distance/speed, it will be serious game over for the C7Z...
I've been riding building/riding sport bikes for 20 years, about the same for building/racing corvettes....There really is just no comparison until you start getting into BIG power car stuff...
I'm pretty sure my lightly modded S1000RR would still have spanked my 900 rwhp Z06 on the highway.
I've still got these two...
Last edited by ajrothm; 05-22-2018 at 03:03 AM.
05-22-2018, 07:28 AM
#60
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I said "There is no speed contest that my HD will win over my sport bike. This includes from a dig and from low RPM rolls." My sport bike is 1441cc and when I bought it new 6 years ago it was the most powerful bike available. It isn't a 600cc bike.
I'm not sure why you keep questioning me on this.
I'm not sure why you keep questioning me on this.