Poor-sha

I was referring to the original metal deflectors that go behind the rotors not the blockers in my reply. Those deflectors have a section that shields the lower ball joint from the rotor.

As far as the lines go, I've done it four times now and shortly will be going for my fifth. The actual lines get easier once you've done them a couple times and a big part of the difficulty for me the first time was figuring out how the stock lines went together.

As was said above the OEM rubber line is captured in the bracket - YOU CAN NOT LOOSEN THAN END. Go around to the back side of the bracket from under the car and loosen the nut there. I use a shortly wrench to break it loose and then a crows foot to loosen the nut when I couldn't turn by hand. Have the little rubber line caps Spiegler provides ready to cap the line as soon as you pull it back and have paper towels handy.


Once you get the new lines in place I believe that I would actually get them started by standing next to the car and gently pushing the hard line and nut slightly through the bracket - I'll verify this when I do the next install. Wiggle the lines a bit to make sure it threads and doesn't get bound up. Once you get the line in and nut finger tight it should largely stop leaking. It doesn't take much to snug them up and again use the shorty wrench, there is only a very small area where you can get the wrench in there on the nut and make small turns but I never had any issues with the connections leaking.


Yeah, the bracket clips are a mess and I'll be honest that I don't even remember which way they are supposed to go and don't know that I got them all on right. Oh, I would also remove the stock bracket clips before you start loosening the flare nut as it'll give you a little more room to move things back and forth.

Finally, I found the first time that I need to flush the brake fluid, drive around, then flush again to get all the air out. I didn't have the issue the second time - possibly because I'm leaving the calipers with the lines connected and just capping them so they still have fluid in them.

Good luck!

badhabit_wb

Thank Sean. I just got the left rear done. It's tight. I decided since I think the srf is part of my issue with the bleeders leaking to just drain the whole system. I'll do an abs bleed when I'm done and that should fix it.
I'd be really surprised if I get all of the air out on the first bleed. As long as I have decent pedal I'll drive it around the block and get the rest out. I usually tap the calipers with a plastic mallet to dislodge the bubbles but that doesn't always get everything on the first go round.
I didn't have a lot of trouble with the clips but it took forever to get the hard line off. It was tight all the way out of the caliper. I didn't have any problem with the stainless line but I had to use the wrench part of the way, 1/4 turn at the time and flipping the wrench for another turn makes for slow work.
I have the car up on a quickjack so it's easy getting under it to get to the lines. I didn't pull the bracket but it would probably have been faster. Since I drained the lines I didn't have to worry about making a big mess or having to rush to get the nuts started. I'll gravity bleed the system when I get around to doing the front, hopefully next week. I think I'll have time to get the right rear today.
I appreciate all of the advice. I cut the shield for the rotor and the plastic duct for the brake line and that went well. I'll probably put the original shields back on and take the blockers off when I start on the front.

Poor-sha

Glad to hear it's going well. FWIW I've never had an issue with the bleeders leaking on my AP kit with SRF.

I do wish they had a template or something for cutting the plastic deflector, that is now the worst part of the job to me because I end up having to make several attempts to get the line to fit and I always end up cutting out way more than I need.

badhabit_wb

Yeah I know. I just cut out a little too much to start with but it's aggravating. I also found a transmission leak while I was under there. First time I've had that problem.
I did get the rears finished but it will be next week before I get started on the front.

badhabit_wb

I didn't have any problem with the retainer clips on the rear. I have a really long screwdriver and I just rolled under the car and one or two taps popped them out. When I installed the new clips I used a wrench. I laid a short wrench across the top of the clip and pulled down on either side with both hands. It popped on easily.

mallett435

The issue is not the length for the front. It's the connector design on the OEM brake line to match the mount point on the OEM Calipers. AP Calipers mount point are straight in vs OEM caliper. I tried finding a position that the OEM brake line wouldn't interfere, but it's not even close.

I changed my rear lines to the Spiegler Part #: 13.02.04700, lines but left the OEM calipers and that worked fine. I'm not sure if you can leave OEM brake lines on the rear with the rear AP kit.

badhabit_wb

Well I got to work on the front end today. Fwiw to me the rear was a lot easier. I know a lot of people say it's harder but for me it wasn't. Passenger side went on fine. I had to remove the brake duct kit to get room and use a crow's foot wrench, thanks Poor-sha, to remove the line but it all went fine. I put the clip back in from the side. That worked better and will be easier to remove if I have to.
I'm still working on the drivers side. It appears that the threads are off on the hard line. I finally removed the hard line from the abs block and took it off the car. One end spins right in to the spiegler line, the other end that's supposed to won't even start. I'm looking for a die to fit it but no luck so far. I think it's an m10 x1 and I ordered one next day so I should have it tomorrow. If I can chase the threads I'll make it work and report back.

fmcokc

Nope, I had installed the LG brake duct kit and they turned brown during One Lap in 2016. Took the kit off after that since I don't think it was doing much.

badhabit_wb

I was using the st-43 pads and they're really aggressive. I could brake really late but every now and then I'd get a soft pedal. That and the bleeders leaking scared me off of the factory calipers. I'm wondering if the srf was the problem with the leaking so I won't be using that in the big brake kit. Hopefully I can get it all put back together this week.

jvp

Thank you for the images; that's very helpful. And it's a pile o' poop to have to deal with. Doh!

badhabit_wb

Fwiw the thread for the nuts on the brake hardlines is an m10x1. One of my lines, fortunately the left front, was cross threaded from the factory. Since the line seals at the flare I didn't have a leak. When I couldn't get the nut started in the spiegler line I took the hard line off the car. Since is was short it was the easiest way. The line would screw into the brass hose from the factory fine and the end of the line that screwed into the abs block would screw into the spiegler line fine. I ordered a die and managed to straighten out the threads and it worked fine afterwards. I called a local dealership and they told me that that line had to be made in the shop and that it could not be ordered. Luckily I got it to work fine.
When I talked to Essex they told me that a lot of people were having trouble with the lines on the C7's. Must be a problem during installation. Hopefully I can get the lines bled and the abs system bled later today or tomorrow.

badhabit_wb

Okay. Car's back together and I have the street pads bedded in. Everything works smooth and seems to be working fine. I got the pre-bedded rotors so bedding the pads was faster but it all seems to be working fine. Feels like it did when it was new. I did notice the abs kicking in once when I was bedding the brakes but I was probably getting on them too hard. I'm going to pull the wheels and put the track pads on and bed them next. I'll also do another quick bleed to make sure there's no air in the system. Can't wait to try them on the track.
The installation is very straightforward. The hardest part for me was getting the SS lines on. That was because of a nut that was cross threaded from the factory. The front was more difficult, for me, than the back. It's tight getting to the lines and removing the clips. I pressed the front clips back on from the side instead of the top. It was easier and if I have to remove them again it will be easier to remove. I used the factory clips in the front and the ones provided in the rear.

spearfish25

OK, so who can help install my lines? LOL

badhabit_wb

It's a do it yourself project. lol

badhabit_wb

Well I finally got around to burnishing the track pads. Everything feels solid and the brakes will out stop the tires for sure. The real test will come at the track but everything so far is confidence inspiring. NCM is the first event with the new brakes so I'll report back then. They'll stop fast enough to make you puke now!

badhabit_wb

Okay I promised I'd come back and review.
I was using st-43 raybestos pads with the stock calipers. With the big brake kit I'm using Dsuno's. The st-43's are more aggressive and it's easy to overbrake until you get used to them. On my car there was no squeal and the braking was great. I had 2 problems running this setup. 1. Rotors didn't last long. I usually had them heat checked the first day and had to replace one set of front rotors on the third day. The next set of rotors were heat checked but were still working after 4 track days. 2. Pedal would go half way to the floor several times during a 30 minute session. It always startled the crap out of me and I lost confidence in the brakes. I also had leaking bleeders on the stock rotors but I think that was caused by srf and I could have replaced the fluid and bleeders and that would probably have been fine.
The AP racing setup cured the low pedal issue. From the first session to the last the brakes were predictable and consistent. The rear pads squealed like a demon from hell but the car stopped first time every time with no drama. I checked the rotors at the end of the day and they looked pretty much like they did when I started. Yesterday got rained out so I didn't get a second day on them. The Dsuno's aren't as aggressive as the Raybestos but they do a great job of hauling the car down to a stop. I'm also sure that if I wanted to go back to st-43's that I can get them for the AP brakes.
Conclusions. I don't think there's a lot of difference in stopping power with the stock brakes and st-43's vs the AP dsuno setup. The st-43's are more aggressive and can overpower the tires pretty easily and get into abs. I do think there's a great deal of difference in performance of the system however. With the AP's not once did I have any change in the pedal height, or responsiveness. It took a couple of sessions for me to start to see the real difference in the 2 systems. Boring reliability. Maybe that's not the best way to describe it but that's how it felt. I went from being nervous about the brakes at the end of a high speed straight to actually trying to figure out where my new braking points should be. I quit worrying about the brakes doing their job. I also found that if I went deeper and braked later and harder that the rear squeal went away. I'd gotten in the habit of braking easy in the beginning to make sure I had plenty of pedal travel with the stock brakes. With the AP's the tires are the limiting factor but not in the same way as the st-43 setup, it's a smooth transition. The AP's are confidence inspiring. It's the kind of boring I like. I get to pay more attention to my driving when I'm not worried about being able to slow the car down for the next turn.
Would I buy the AP's again? At this point I'm kicking myself for not getting them earlier. Since I only have one day on the I can't say how long they'll last but judging by the looks of the rotors at the end of the first day they should last much longer than what I was using. I had zero issues with abs or ice mode with this setup, I also had zero issues with the st-43's. I wish I had been able to get the second day in to give a better review but this is the best I can do after one day. I have a 3 day event July 27th-29th and if anybody wants any further review I can do it then.

Herman

fleming23

I got roughly 9 hard time attack days (mixed with with 3 autocross and speedstop events) out of my set of front rotor rings (basically the entire year) and 3000 miles before a crack developed using PFC pads. Just replaced the front rings back in April so we'll see how long those last but do have a spare set of rings in the trailer should I need them before the end of the year.

badhabit_wb

Are you still running the 1.11's? The Dsuno's don't have the bite that the st-43's do but they're not bad. I don't think I'd want less bite since using the st-43 pads. They're all a little different but the Dsuno's are working great for me except for the squeal.

fleming23

No, I didn't care much for the Ferodo pads. I swapped to Performance Friction Compound and have been pretty happy as they have a compound to meet any requirement. I initially used their -01 compound, but found a stockpile of 90 compound and bought literally every box I could get my hands on as it was no longer being made.

I equate pads to blue jeans. Not everyone likes Levi's, not everyone wants designer, and some are okay with Wrangler. You have to find the pad that fits your driving style best.

badhabit_wb

Yeah I know what you mean. I didn't like the st-43's initially but once I got used to them I loved them. If the Dsuno's quit squealing so loud I'll probably be fine with them too. I didn't put the tension kit on either end so I think I may put them on the rear. I was afraid I might smoke them on the track. It won't take long to find out if that helps. I have a 3 day event at VIR the end of next month so I think I'll try one day without and then switch the next day and see if it helps.