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Transmission Coolers mounted in Rear Diffuser area...
Anyone seen transmission coolers mounted in the rear diffuser area under the back of the car, just before the back bumper cover starts? I was thinking about trimming the bumper cover from up underneath and putting coolers on each side for the automatic transmission. I would keep the stock cooler in the rear drivers side fender and the transmission cooler up front, would be replaced with an oil cooler.
The oil cooler I would put in, would sit a little higher, and face the air... and after the cooler, a tilted plate would take that hot air under the radiators behind it.
Anyone seen anyone do anything like this before? I feel that the cooling issues with these cars originates in the fact that half of them aren't getting enough air flow in the proper direction.
This overheating issue can be solved for much less quantity of replacement parts and much less money than these vendors are doing.
The stock trans fluid cooler lines that go to the front of the car, i would simply take a rubber hose and connect them at the front of the car, creating a loop. The trans fluid can still loop around this line, as it increases the total trans fluid capacity and also these hard lines act as coolers themselves. That plus the extra coolers in the back, should hold a good amount more of fluid, and that fluid would be held in a cold container instead of the trans oil pan. (no need for a larger pan to hold more fluid)
I would most likely split the In and out flow hose from the transmission, so that half the fluid goes through the stock trans cooler in the drivers rear and also up the hard metal lines to the front and back around that loop... and the other half the system goes through the rear coolers in the diffuser areas on each side, and then the fluid re combines before it goes back into the transmission. This would also relieve the restriction by half as the fluid has 2 options instead of one, so more fluid would flow around the entire system in any X amount of time, vs the stock configuration or even my system if it was put into series instead of parallel. More fluid spends more time in the coolers than the stock configuration, and all the coolers in the rear are actually facing and breathing air properly. More fluid in the cooling system, even if the fluid was to be sitting still. (I know its not, just saying its better to have it here than in the pan of the auto trans)
Or one could still attach another baby intercooler and sit in in the drivers nose corner, but not expect it to do a ton since it doesn't see a ton of airflow, but something is better than nothing. I might do the same thing on the passenger corner and add a baby cooler in the passenger corner as well for the engine oil to be cooled by, in addition to the engine oil cooler mounted in the stock radiator nose opening of the car, in the place that the original transmission cooler was.
Pardon my crummy drawing/edits but you get the idea... i want to put an oil cooler like this, except over a foot in length, on each side, and these will cool the transmission fluid. They will be held up the rear diffuser blades, as well as a custom metal bracket coming in from above.
The diffuser blades either have to be made of carbon or of metal. I believe the stock bumper cover material will melt. If anyone can confirm it will or wont melt, let us know. So carbon or steel blades, and then cut a notch out from the back side, so it can sit right in there. If it is too tall, taller than the bumper cover edge, thats not the end of the world, the air will just go up in the back of the car and swirl around and then escape.
I am debating constructing custom sheet metal diffuser blades and cutting holes in the stock bumper cover or debating buying the arp version 2 carbon diffuser. A bit pricey tho, but at least i know it wont melt and it will hold it up the coolers fine without melting.
The biggest obstacle is the tow hook anchor on the drivers side. I am looking to see if that can be removed, or if the cooler will fit in front/underneath of that.
Also, i would attach sheet metal to the bottom side of the coolers, and extend toward the tires... this will act as a mudflap from the rocks from the tires flying up and hitting cooler and damaging the fin elements, as well as an air capture device. I can tilt it down ever so slightly, but still have the angle of attack more flat than the angle of rock throwing trajectory from the tires.
Oddly enough I believe there is room to run a 3rd cooler underneath the exhaust tips, and insulate the under side of the exhaust, but i think 2 coolers plus the fender well will be enough. 3rd would be getting carried away and an odd position.
The advantage to the metal blades is they would actually absorb and take heat away from the cooler, and one can also weld directly to them
I like the idea of adding coolers in the rear/I also have a z06 auto/16 car/Because the oil will take the path of least resistance you might need a restriction/or not/when you y the line/on my c6 twin turbo car I have sts rear mount turbos in place of the mufflers/gets the heat away from the engine compartment
The stock transmission cooler in the rear turned out to be insufficient to cool the A8 transmission and GM added the front radiator to give more cooling. I suspect if it had been possible to increase the cooling in the rear they would have done that before adding the front transmission cooler. Not sure of the reasons for insufficient cooling capacity but it may have to do with how much air flow can be directed through the ducting in the quarter panel or maybe lack of space to increase the size of the rear mounted cooler. I suspect air flow is the major factor.
When I was at the C7 reveal at Carlisle in 2013 I talked to the design engineer who designed that ducting. He did say you could increase air flow into the duct by cutting out the egg crate grille but then you would have the problem of large debris entering the duct and blocking air flow into the cooler. If you notice the Z06 added air scoops on top of the quarter to get more air into the ducting. It also looks like they changed the ducting for the Z06. I checked the online GM parts suppliers and there are different part numbers for the ducts that are inside the rear quarter depending on whether you have a base car or a Z06 and the rear A8 trans coolers are also different. The A8 front radiator on both base and Z06 are the same part number.
I think you will have a tough time getting sufficient transmission cooling if you remove the front radiator from the system and try to add more cooling in the rear unless you can figure out how to get more air into the coolers than is possible with the stock setup. Don't forget the diff cooler is behind the right side quarter.
Here are some pictures of the Z06 Cutaway Car that I took last year at the Woodward Dream Cruise:
I agree with everything you said except the belief that the front radiator alone is better than 2 in the rear, and assuming GM would put coolers in the rear if they could...
I dont think GM would do this because it is too outside of the box in thinking. And also having hot coolers exposed for people to touch them without a grate covering them, is a lawsuit waiting to happen, so for that reason, i dont believe GM would do this.
THe reason I am confident that this is a better way to go is because the cooler in the front is not very thick. Meanwhile, it is not facing the air's flow of attack. 2 strikes for the one in the front. If a person puts on 2 thicker core coolers in the rear, 1 on each side, about the thickness of a standard red brick used to build a home, and it is over a foot long, and air is passing through it, it will create a lot of cooling. Keep in mind, I will still have the stock cooling lines going to the front of the car. I can still cut a hole in the front end or add an aftermarket front end to allow more air, and get air to an aftermarket cooler in the drivers side cavity in the nose of the car, where i add an aftermarket cooler.
I am very confident this will keep the system cooler than the stock setup, and also allow me to put an oil cooler in the front of the car. I believe my temps will fall tremendously.
One of the reasons adding a thicker engine cooling radiator hasn't been all that beneficial is the thicker radiator reduced air flow which offset the advantage of improving the cooling surface of the radiator. You will need more air to those rear coolers and getting it will be a problem due to not having enough room to increase the size of the cooling ducts. The only way to get more air is put the coolers so air from below the car can be ducted to them or to put coolers with fans under the car like the racers did to cool the C5 manual trans and diffs.
Another one I found, and this one is more cost effective than the others. This has the additional horizontal plane of carbon across the bottom.
The amount of suction these cause, within those channels, behind a car traveling 60 or more, will create a lot of suction to pull air through the heat exchanger.
The other reason I know this will work well, there have been other racers, who have mounted coolers under the rear leaf spring, not in the direction that air attacks, and these people, have had no issues with increased temps.... when I would expect it to increase temps by removing the front cooler. I know 2 in the back facing air flow direction will be superior than 1 under the leaf spring, pointing 90 degrees to the air flow.
One of the reasons adding a thicker engine cooling radiator hasn't been all that beneficial is the thicker radiator reduced air flow which offset the advantage of improving the cooling surface of the radiator. You will need more air to those rear coolers and getting it will be a problem due to not having enough room to increase the size of the cooling ducts. The only way to get more air is put the coolers so air from below the car can be ducted to them or to put coolers with fans under the car like the racers did to cool the C5 manual trans and diffs.
Bill
Agreed, that is exactly my logic and why i am not adding a larger radiator... there is only so much air entering the front of the car. And its not enough. We have to go to other places.
Agreed, that is exactly my logic and why i am not adding a larger radiator... there is only so much air entering the front of the car. And its not enough. We have to go to other places.
The front transmission cooler happens to be in an area that isn't as constricted although when I installed my Secondary Radiator I couldn't see how air flowed through the radiator since there was a solid panel one inch below the radiator. The one inch gap is closed off front and rear so the only way for air to escape from it is to go the sides and out through the space just above the front radiator support bars. On cars with an undertray there are two solid panels under the radiator. However, it does work.
The front transmission cooler happens to be in an area that isn't as constricted although when I installed my Secondary Radiator I couldn't see how air flowed through the radiator since there was a solid panel one inch below the radiator. The one inch gap is closed off front and rear so the only way for air to escape from it is to go the sides and out through the space just above the front radiator support bars. On cars with an undertray there are two solid panels under the radiator. However, it does work.
Bill
Right, and that is where im going to put an oil cooler. So now i have cooled my oil more and also cooled my trans fluid more.
Drew in here mounted a cooler behind the one of the rear brake ducts. Might be an option (one each side).
i need my brakes to be cooled tho also. He had to kill the brake cooling then I assume?
update: he shot me the photos across, while it might hurt cooling of the rear brake a bit, it probably would not be the end of the world. I still like the idea of putting coolers under the rear bumper cover, the most.
i need my brakes to be cooled tho also. He had to kill the brake cooling then I assume?
update: he shot me the photos across, while it might hurt cooling of the rear brake a bit, it probably would not be the end of the world. I still like the idea of putting coolers under the rear bumper cover, the most.
not to difficult to shroud the oil coolers and use a small turbine fan inline like the bilge fans in boats/12 volt and move a lot of air/probably quite a bit of air movement under there
not to difficult to shroud the oil coolers and use a small turbine fan inline like the bilge fans in boats/12 volt and move a lot of air/probably quite a bit of air movement under there
yeah, but fans cant move as much air as even traveling 40mph, so the fans are kind of pointless, especially for transmission coolers, which are only going to get hot when movement is occurring, unlike engine oil and coolant which get hot even when one is sitting still.
I think the fans will get in the way more than anything.
i need my brakes to be cooled tho also. He had to kill the brake cooling then I assume?
update: he shot me the photos across, while it might hurt cooling of the rear brake a bit, it probably would not be the end of the world. I still like the idea of putting coolers under the rear bumper cover, the most.
I can still put brake duct on but I don't road racer and so far temps are good for my roll racing.
Im in the process of making a trans pan to hold more fluid with cooling fins, But Im trying to put all my time in the gauge screen now.
Another one I found, and this one is more cost effective than the others. This has the additional horizontal plane of carbon across the bottom.
The amount of suction these cause, within those channels, behind a car traveling 60 or more, will create a lot of suction to pull air through the heat exchanger.
The other reason I know this will work well, there have been other racers, who have mounted coolers under the rear leaf spring, not in the direction that air attacks, and these people, have had no issues with increased temps.... when I would expect it to increase temps by removing the front cooler. I know 2 in the back facing air flow direction will be superior than 1 under the leaf spring, pointing 90 degrees to the air flow.
I like this If you could mount coolers on the rear side
Another one I found, and this one is more cost effective than the others. This has the additional horizontal plane of carbon across the bottom.
The amount of suction these cause, within those channels, behind a car traveling 60 or more, will create a lot of suction to pull air through the heat exchanger.
The other reason I know this will work well, there have been other racers, who have mounted coolers under the rear leaf spring, not in the direction that air attacks, and these people, have had no issues race diffusers is to e purpose of increased temps.... when I would expect it to increase temps by removing the front cooler. I know 2 in the back facing air flow direction will be superior than 1 under the leaf spring, pointing 90 degrees to the air flow.
That's a really nice looking unit at a good price. I would like to some CFD airflow projections. Most race diffusers have a full width closure to the cross member, and the strakes are open and not enclosed on the bottom. The purpose of race diffusers is to enhance rear downforce. Putting radiators into the airflow will kill any downforce effect of a diffuser.
That's a really nice looking unit at a good price. I would like to some CFD airflow projections. Most race diffusers have a full width closure to the cross member, and the strakes are open and not enclosed on the bottom. The purpose of race diffusers is to enhance rear downforce. Putting radiators into the airflow will kill any downforce effect of a diffuser.
half true on the downforce comment.
remember, the majority of the air actually goes under the flat portion of this kit that is added here... and it is tilted up as it goes back (hard to tell it tilts up towards the back, but the surface on the bottom of the car it mounts to, tilts up towards the back)
...so all that being the case, the vacuum that is created UNDER the flat panel as air escapes under it, creates a suction between it and the road, which in turn creates downforce.
Even without the coolers in the way, if you go look at your car and see the amount of the gap that exists between the rear bumper cover bottom edge and the flat portion on this kit, it is going to be 1 to 2 inches at the "inlet", so we are not talking a lot of air entering this area in the stock configuration. All that being said, i plan to trim away the bumper cover a bit, and as it is trimmed away, the distance between the bumper cover and the flat portion of this kit, increase, which will allow the larger gap for the air to get pulled through.
On another note, after looking at my car and this kit's pictures for a while, i realize the ideal way is to start from scratch with a new bumper cover (bottom half)...
I think the diagonals by the muffler and the box around the mufflers looks too thick and in the way the more i study this...
Idealy, if there was a piece that didnt have the muffler tips boxed in, and instead only went above the muffler tips, like the c5 bumper covers were.... then a kit like this would look amazing, and there would be an extra vertical added next to each side of the muffler tips. Its functionality would be greatly increased as would its looks.
Further wishing, would be if the whole thing was 1 piece, this kit and the bumper cover similar to the c5 where it doesnt box the muffler tips with the thick diagonals, and instead had thin verticals, or even thick verticals. But the diagonals mess it all up I think
07-07-2018, 08:08 PM
Transmission Coolers mounted in Rear Diffuser area...
