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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12'-'13-'14-'15
Originally Posted by Ltrain925
I would go turbo everytime, downside is sound of exhaust, only one I can think of. THe tuning ability to control boost, wastegate on the fly is an amazing feature. Boost control by gear to allow for full traction.to act as a traction control would help immensely with our cars 720s uses this and it works wonders. Better mpg, less weight, broader powerband, I could go on and on. The instant tq is awesome with our PD blowers but there comes a point where it’s unusable because there’s so much then your left feathering the throttle. Most high end cars that are twin turbo and v8 have almost zero lag, not sure about a single turbo but that little bit of lag allows for traction at times. Now it isn’t as much fun, but with the toe in throttle delay our cars have I feel that’s just as bad as turbo lag though lol.
No lag here homie........unless I want it which I do for launch and start of 1 and 2 gear. On the street I keep it turned down but for FL2K we will open it up. This car will have the EV1150 upgrade within a month then we will let it eat.
Digital measurements of engine bay between our 2017 Z with stock blower/pulley and 2016 Z with EV950 package is 7 degrees average. I am cool with that. Now keep in mind I opted to wrap my hot side rather than ceramic coat, but it is what it is. Oil and coolant run same as before with stock blower on the 16 Z
Not sure how the PTS kit is different than every other turbo kit in existence for every other vehicle to only add 7 degrees of heat to the engine bay but I'm not going to argue about it.
Originally Posted by Cajun @ Edgyvette
No lag here homie........
C'mon now, let's not pretend that turbos don't have lag especially compared to a PD blower. One look at your dyno graph you posted shows it's not even making full boost until around 4500 rpms.
Not sure how the PTS kit is different than every other turbo kit in existence for every other vehicle to only add 7 degrees of heat to the engine bay but I'm not going to argue about it.
C'mon now, let's not pretend that turbos don't have lag especially compared to a PD blower. One look at your dyno graph you posted shows it's not even making full boost until around 4500 rpms.
My guess is that the factory PD blower makes so much heat, swapping a turbo in doesn't make much of a difference heat-wise.
Once EdgyVette has the 1150 package on this thing, it would be nice to see how early full boost can come in with the use of the electronic boost controller on a dyno.
@Cajun, does the 1150 package allow for boost by gear?
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12'-'13-'14-'15
Originally Posted by NicD
Not sure how the PTS kit is different than every other turbo kit in existence for every other vehicle to only add 7 degrees of heat to the engine bay but I'm not going to argue about it.
C'mon now, let's not pretend that turbos don't have lag especially compared to a PD blower. One look at your dyno graph you posted shows it's not even making full boost until around 4500 rpms.
That was WITHOUT Electronic Boost Controller. The GFB GF2 allows full ramp and hold capabilities. New dyno with. EV1150 coming. It will open some eyes about "turbo lag" and about how much $$$ 1000+ who costs
I can show you better than I can tell you. Stay tuned brother
Last edited by Cajun @ Edgyvette; 07-20-2018 at 01:02 PM.
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12'-'13-'14-'15
Originally Posted by wildgoat
My guess is that the factory PD blower makes so much heat, swapping a turbo in doesn't make much of a difference heat-wise.
Once EdgyVette has the 1150 package on this thing, it would be nice to see how early full boost can come in with the use of the electronic boost controller on a dyno.
@Cajun, does the 1150 package allow for boost by gear?
That was WITHOUT Electronic Boost Controller. The GFB GF2 allows full ramp and hold capabilities. New dyno with. EV1150 coming. It will open some eyes about "turbo lag" and about how much $$$ 1000+ who costs
I can show you better than I can tell you. Stay tuned brother
A boost controller with the ability to hold the solenoid (which holds the gate from creeping open early with the delayed pressure signal) like the one you are talking about or any other modern boost controller for that matter will only have a very minimal affect on how quickly boost can come in. It just delays the opening of the gate on boost ramp until the last possible second which usually only helps it spool a few hundred rpms quicker on average, it certainly won't eliminate lag or anything of the sort. I am very aware of how this works and what it does since this is what I do.
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12'-'13-'14-'15
Originally Posted by NicD
A boost controller with the ability to hold the solenoid (which holds the gate from creeping open early with the delayed pressure signal) like the one you are talking about or any other modern boost controller for that matter will only have a very minimal affect on how quickly boost can come in. It just delays the opening of the gate on boost ramp until the last possible second which usually only helps it spool a few hundred rpms quicker on average, it certainly won't eliminate lag or anything of the sort. I am very aware of how this works and what it does since this is what I do.
Well we will find out soon at max ramp and hold. Sure you know more about it than I do. Hell even if I get a couple more hundred RPM I am good. I'm not going much below 4500RPM in a roll or drag race except 1st gear which I want at a lower TQ level
Last edited by Cajun @ Edgyvette; 07-20-2018 at 01:34 PM.
Yes he is getting full boost at around 4500 rpm’s, but as compared to a centrifugal blower setup that’s about when you start seeing full boost as well. The biggest difference being the supercharger has more parasitic loss. So comparing apples to apples there is more horsepower to be had with a turbo system as has been pointed out multiple times in this thread.
Personally, for my Vette (LT1), I prefer a centrifugal supercharger setup for the ability to have the oiling system for it be self contained (full well knowing that larger blower kits aren’t contained and require engine oiling) as its a much simpler install for the DIY guy doing it in his garage.
That was WITHOUT Electronic Boost Controller. The GFB GF2 allows full ramp and hold capabilities. New dyno with. EV1150 coming. It will open some eyes about "turbo lag" and about how much $$$ 1000+ who costs
I can show you better than I can tell you. Stay tuned brother
hmmmm unless your EBC has an electric motor to assist the turbo then how on earth can it make the turbo spool father? At lower rpm there isn't the exhaust gas volume to drive the turbine! All the EBC will do is hold the wastewater closed long. Whichnas you said should allow you to carry the torque out long up top!
now if you fitted something like a quick spool valve oh should see low end / transition gains. Other option would be N2O (makes lots of exhaust gasses) and / or anti-lag.
Haha I’m just glad to see someone here knows what a DSM is. I’ve been into the 4g63T for about 20 years, that’s one impressive little motor. Between the old galant vr4, 90-99 DSMs, and all the Evos over the years there are a TON of those motors with impressive numbers.
How I got into cars big time was my 1991 Talon Turbo AWD. Put a GReddy boost controller on it, ended up frying a piston. Blew a hole right through it, boost shot oil all out my dipstick, caught on fire, and ended up pushing into a neighborhood pond. We thought it was about 10 feet deep, nope, about 30. The car was submerged for 4 hours a day after Christmas in 20-degree weather. Fire trucks came, got stuck, had to get a tow truck to pull the fire truck out first. Then my friend was a certified diver he hooked my car and finally pulled it out. I will never forget, this old man standing next to me saying "this car won't ever run again". Yeah, no one ever tells me it can't happen. I went to a junkyard, bought an engine, cut a wiring harness, soldered 120+ wires together (b/c I couldn't afford a new wiring harness), put the engine in my driveway, converted it from an auto to manual (drilled holes put pedals in, hydraulics, all myself in my driveway with zero experience). Learned as I go. Found everything used and installed myself. This time larger injectors, 20g turbo, custom manifold (welded on wastegate myself), HKS fuel control and boost, cut the shocks welded them back together lowering the car, drilled holes in the shock body, drained the fluid, filled back with heavier weight fluid this increasing dampening force (actually worked lol). Put new front mount intercooler, cut and welded piping myself. I was 18 years old and only knew how to turn a wrench/weld from my dad teaching me (he was a pipefitter/welder, so I had access to those at home after my dad died at 16 years old). The car ran again, in fact, better than it ever did! And more importantly, I learned how to build engines, install cams and timing belts, how to convert from auto to manual (problem-solving), tuning (why a hole was burned in my piston, aka running lean had a bad injector in fact) and patience :-). It was blue and faded to grey with grey leather interior. Loved that car! What gave me my passion for cars early on! And how they work and how to make them better. I knew that car from front to back, literally every bolt and wire.
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12'-'13-'14-'15
We are also suppliers for Procharger, ECS and AA. We will be building LT1 power packages with Carillo drop in piston/rods and procharger F1A-94 and F1X for these cars. Given the fact that most Corvette owners do not prefer the turbo I feel we may need to switch to SCs. We will see
The packages will include
425-BLT-1002-STD - CP-Carrillo Forged Drop In LT1/4 Piston Set: 4.065” Bore, 3.622” Stroke, 6.125” Rod Length, 1.300” CH, -10.7cc Dish; Wrist Pins & 1.5/1.5/3.0mm Steel Top/Napier 2nd Ring Set
425-BCLS-61271 - CP-Carrillo Bullet 6.125" Drop In LT1/4 Connecting Rods,
We are also suppliers for Procharger, ECS and AA. We will be building LT1 power packages with Carillo drop in piston/rods and procharger F1A-94 and F1X for these cars. Given the fact that most Corvette owners do not prefer the turbo I feel we may need to switch to SCs. We will see
The packages will include
425-BLT-1002-STD - CP-Carrillo Forged Drop In LT1/4 Piston Set: 4.065” Bore, 3.622” Stroke, 6.125” Rod Length, 1.300” CH, -10.7cc Dish; Wrist Pins & 1.5/1.5/3.0mm Steel Top/Napier 2nd Ring Set
425-BCLS-61271 - CP-Carrillo Bullet 6.125" Drop In LT1/4 Connecting Rods,
Set of 8, Rated for 1,200 HP
EV850 package
PTS Turbo or PC F1A-94
TSP Headers
CR Fueler 2.0
FIC 1000 PI
G1 Pro intake/fuel rails
Manual boost controller (Turbo)
EV1100 package
PTS Turbo or PC F1X
TSP headers
CR Fueler 2.0
FIC 1000 PI
G1 Pro intake/fuel rails
Electronic boost controller (Turbo)
CR Low Side fuel system
MMS Wild catch can
Cajun, what are the turbo options for each level? T4 or T6 based?
I’m sorry, but those pictures just help prove my point - that kit layout is a literal “hot mess!”
I’d never want that kind of visual under the hood of my car/truck
Compare the look/layout of that Vette kit to the kit on my Sierra.
It’s significantly better and makes great power over 600 hp/tq on a Stock cam, heads, intake 5.3!
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12'-'13-'14-'15
Originally Posted by M M Alexander
I’m sorry, but those pictures just help prove my point - that kit layout is a literal “hot mess!”
I’d never want that kind of visual under the hood of my car/truck
Compare the look/layout of that Vette kit to the kit on my Sierra.
It’s significantly better and makes great power over 600 hp/tq on a Stock cam, heads, intake 5.3!
My Turbocharged Sierra
.
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If I had it to do again I would ceramic coat instead of wrapping the system. It would have cleaned it up but you can always re route lines and such. If system was ceramic coated or uncoated I think it would look much cleaner. All I know is people flock to this car over all the SC cars at the track and at shows.........because everyone has a SC
Lotta good info in this thread, but some bad info too. U can see who has owned a turbo vette and who is going by what they’ve read. I had owned a 9 sec TT C5 back in my early days on the forum. Started off with a single turbo (Cerra Racing Kit) with 1st a GTS 72mm and later went to a 76mmGTS unit. It was nice, but the kit was rough and had all kinds of thermal issues and the turbo tech at the time would only allow a T4 76mm turbo to make ~ 740whp. Trouble was, T4 turbos just arent a good match our larger displement V8’s and T6’s are hard to package in a C5-C7. The car was fun, but a constant struggle to deal with the “rough” areas (e.g. design) of the kit and the fact that my power would peak and drop off a cliff at 6500rpm due to the aforementioned T4 restrictions. Along came Dr Phil, offering me a solution by way of the TTI X kit. It was a “packaging” challenge and used special t3/t4 hybrid turbos, but it came with OEM caliber cast manifolds. It was thru that setup that I learned what a truly well thought out turbo kit could do. With a destroked LS7, the car would drive to the track, getting 30+mph, run consistent high 9 sec/low 10 sec passes (pre E85) with 190* ECT’s AC running...could have used it as a DD EASILY. I never dyno’d the car, but it was responsive and made a ton of power at 3000rpm which held to the 7200 rpm shift point. It was perfect, almost boring...lol. Thinking about buying that car back as I miss the hell out of it. Bottom line, a well designed turbo car can be a pleasure to live with and provide the best of both worlds in power delivery between a centri/pd blower, while being more efficient.
Fast forward to today...I called TTI and they didn’t think that there was enough demand to warrant developing a kit (shame, cuz Andy and PC seem to be selling a ****-ton of SC kits)....therefore, my 17 Z is currently receiving the finishing touches on a single turbo, t4 based turbo setup. It has been a bit challenging to find the right turbo, but I think we are there. Cant wait to get it finished a get some street/track time. I would have gone twins, but besides the JTM/Mighty Mouse Kit, there doesn’t seem to be many good alternatives. @ 18K and having to pop for a post turbo exhaust (and everything else...fuel system, convertor, intake, etc.) , I had to pass. Its showing great results though...cant argue with that. Top mount turbo setups like the current single(PTS)/twin (UPP) turbo setups look like there would be heat issues, but time will tell as more hit the market. I am really anxious to see what happens when EV turns up the boost on the GT45R...dyno and track times. I appreciate any vendor that serves our somewhat small market.
To each his own, but if the car isn’t daily driveable with the power adder of choice, then I think destroys the underlying point of the C7 Z...DDable supercar.
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12'-'13-'14-'15
Originally Posted by Earl H
Lotta good info in this thread, but some bad info too. U can see who has owned a turbo vette and who is going by what they’ve read. I had owned a 9 sec TT C5 back in my early days on the forum. Started off with a single turbo (Cerra Racing Kit) with 1st a GTS 72mm and later went to a 76mmGTS unit. It was nice, but the kit was rough and had all kinds of thermal issues and the turbo tech at the time would only allow a T4 76mm turbo to make ~ 740whp. Trouble was, T4 turbos just arent a good match our larger displement V8’s and T6’s are hard to package in a C5-C7. The car was fun, but a constant struggle to deal with the “rough” areas (e.g. design) of the kit and the fact that my power would peak and drop off a cliff at 6500rpm due to the aforementioned T4 restrictions. Along came Dr Phil, offering me a solution by way of the TTI X kit. It was a “packaging” challenge and used special t3/t4 hybrid turbos, but it came with OEM caliber cast manifolds. It was thru that setup that I learned what a truly well thought out turbo kit could do. With a destroked LS7, the car would drive to the track, getting 30+mph, run consistent high 9 sec/low 10 sec passes (pre E85) with 190* ECT’s AC running...could have used it as a DD EASILY. I never dyno’d the car, but it was responsive and made a ton of power at 3000rpm which held to the 7200 rpm shift point. It was perfect, almost boring...lol. Thinking about buying that car back as I miss the hell out of it. Bottom line, a well designed turbo car can be a pleasure to live with and provide the best of both worlds in power delivery between a centri/pd blower, while being more efficient.
Fast forward to today...I called TTI and they didn’t think that there was enough demand to warrant developing a kit (shame, cuz Andy and PC seem to be selling a ****-ton of SC kits)....therefore, my 17 Z is currently receiving the finishing touches on a single turbo, t4 based turbo setup. It has been a bit challenging to find the right turbo, but I think we are there. Cant wait to get it finished a get some street/track time. I would have gone twins, but besides the JTM/Mighty Mouse Kit, there doesn’t seem to be many good alternatives. @ 18K and having to pop for a post turbo exhaust (and everything else...fuel system, convertor, intake, etc.) , I had to pass. Its showing great results though...cant argue with that. Top mount turbo setups like the current single(PTS)/twin (UPP) turbo setups look like there would be heat issues, but time will tell as more hit the market. I am really anxious to see what happens when EV turns up the boost on the GT45R...dyno and track times. I appreciate any vendor that serves our somewhat small market.
To each his own, but if the car isn’t daily driveable with the power adder of choice, then I think destroys the underlying point of the C7 Z...DDable supercar.
Really good stuff Earl. I love the way the car drives and the power is much more linear than the stock Z PD blower. I drive this car all over florida city and hwy. Mileage is better and I am sitting on +300 HP over stock. I have not had a centrifugal car so I cant compare that. We tried to develop a low cost, big power option for C7 Z owners
850/780 wheel for $9999 and 1000/900+ wheel for $12499 including top level EBC, vacuum block and MMS catch can fits the bill. We have sold about 6 of these kits to LT1 owners and they love them, but Z owners seem to opt for the SC. Hopefully things will change after EV1150 package dyno and FL2K against 99 other cars from 600-1600whp
Last edited by Cajun @ Edgyvette; 07-21-2018 at 06:07 PM.
I absolutely would love to have a single turbo setup on my C7Z. Turbos are more fun, make more power, and are more efficient; as many others have stated. I love every single noise they make as well. I am a big fan of the ramp up feeling going from off boost to full boost. The factory C7Z gives that instant kick to full boost which of course is nice, but not as fun. If it weren't for lack of widespread support and the complicated plumbing that it seems to require, I'd be all over it. While it's super badass, I simply can't get down with this mess. Let alone an extremely cramped engine bay.
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12'-'13-'14-'15
There is no doubt I could do some cleanup of line routing. I went for function before aesthetics by doing 1200 degree sheath on all lines and routing where I thought would best preserve flow. I plan to work on cleaning it up a little. If I had done ceramic rather than exhaust wrap it would also clean it up a good bit.
07-20-2018, 11:41 AM
