C7Z meth
07-31-2018, 12:48 AM
#2
only if it did not pass algebra class
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07-31-2018, 12:50 AM
#3
no, you dont have to tune it... i wouldnt go crazy with how much is injected, i would only have it inject at above 4 or 6psi if the car goes to 11. If the car goes to 8, then i would have it come on at 3 or 4psi.
Its just there to prevent knock, which it will/should do. Get a device to log knock in the engine... if the engine knocks BEFORE the meth is on, at 2psi etc, then have the meth come on sooner, until you see no more knock.
Some other guys on here may know the exact boost psi where you want it to activate at. The meth controller can be tuned, and should be if it can be... have it ramp up as more boost is detected, etc. If you can ramp it up from zero flow, then you can have it come on sooner at a lower boost level. It does not hurt anything to have it come on early, only will consume your meth and cost you money... so finding the perfect balance is the goal
Update: I should have mentioned early on to make sure you are running a thin ratio vs the water, like 20/80, and when you tune the meth control box, to have a wideband 02 sensor in the header or exhaust if possible to get it dialed in well.
So, NO TUNE, is not the accurate statement... no tune to the stock ecu, and tune the meth box with a wideband 02 sensor, is my advice. I can see why others countered me, and I apologize.
Its just there to prevent knock, which it will/should do. Get a device to log knock in the engine... if the engine knocks BEFORE the meth is on, at 2psi etc, then have the meth come on sooner, until you see no more knock.
Some other guys on here may know the exact boost psi where you want it to activate at. The meth controller can be tuned, and should be if it can be... have it ramp up as more boost is detected, etc. If you can ramp it up from zero flow, then you can have it come on sooner at a lower boost level. It does not hurt anything to have it come on early, only will consume your meth and cost you money... so finding the perfect balance is the goal
Update: I should have mentioned early on to make sure you are running a thin ratio vs the water, like 20/80, and when you tune the meth control box, to have a wideband 02 sensor in the header or exhaust if possible to get it dialed in well.
So, NO TUNE, is not the accurate statement... no tune to the stock ecu, and tune the meth box with a wideband 02 sensor, is my advice. I can see why others countered me, and I apologize.
Last edited by Mikec7z; 08-01-2018 at 08:44 PM.
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CorvetteBrent (08-02-2018)
07-31-2018, 11:30 AM
#4
Depends if you want to take full advantage of it. Not sure why you would install it unless you're doing other mods as well so that you need the extra fuel supply. I did it cause i converted to E85 and more boost. Methanol is high octane and with that you can get pretty aggressive with the timing. But to each their own.
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CorvetteBrent (08-02-2018)
07-31-2018, 12:00 PM
#5
i don't think he wants to tune his car, he wants to keep the warranty probably, and since stock cars see knock and pull timing when IAT's are too hot and detonation occurs, he is preventing that from happening, keeping his car at 650hp instead of allowing the car to enter into a reduced timing and closed TB blade situation where its making in the 500's or below instead.
Last edited by Mikec7z; 07-31-2018 at 04:14 PM.
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CorvetteBrent (08-02-2018)
07-31-2018, 12:40 PM
#6
Are you running meth on a stock motor or do you have other mods to go along with it? If meth is the only "mod", then you don't "need" a tune if you have it spraying correctly. If you have several other mods in addition to meth, you really should tune it....for safety and maximizing gains.
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07-31-2018, 01:15 PM
#7
Team Owner
Most guys add some mods like pullies then after the NEED is shown with high ITA's then they add the meth kit. To add it first with no need seems it might be a waste or might not help at all.
I wouldn't think even about it drive your car if it is not enough power do a Halltech intake before you think about the meth kit!
I wouldn't think even about it drive your car if it is not enough power do a Halltech intake before you think about the meth kit!
07-31-2018, 03:34 PM
#9
this is not a fully accurate statement.
first and foremost, if it is fuel, it might make his car run a little rich... not the end of the world like running lean... but lets look at what the meth actually does...
it is more than fuel, what it is, is an octane booster essentially, and a cooling agent, neither of those require a tune.
The main reason meth cars, are able to make more power before they run out of fuel, vs another car without meth apples to apples in all other areas, is because the other car is experiencing pre-detonation sooner in its boost levels, and thus, it cant carry the same timing as the meth car can. So yes, meth will get people to higher HP numbers, but not just because it is a "fuel", its because of its other characteristics as well.
The car... meanwhile, is already making deliberate choices to RUN RICH on gasoline alone, when it experiences engine knock and sees certain IAT2 tempts, etc...
the meth chills the car out, so that those choices are not made to run rich using the gasoline.
im going to go out on a limb and say the car will run more rich WITHOUT meth, than it will WITH meth, if the meth is brought on in the correct dosage.... and prevents knock, from the gasoline only situation, where the car would choose to run rich using gasoline alone, after it detects the detonation etc.
Do i recommend his meth control box is tuned on a Dyno with a wideband 02 sensor in the exhaust to monitor the situation and make sure that things are in safe parameters? yes. But does the car's stock ecu need to be tuned? absolutely not. Will the meth control be able to be tuned to keep the car in safe parameters? yes... the car will be safer after the meth is added, than before it was, hands down, no question.
first and foremost, if it is fuel, it might make his car run a little rich... not the end of the world like running lean... but lets look at what the meth actually does...
it is more than fuel, what it is, is an octane booster essentially, and a cooling agent, neither of those require a tune.
The main reason meth cars, are able to make more power before they run out of fuel, vs another car without meth apples to apples in all other areas, is because the other car is experiencing pre-detonation sooner in its boost levels, and thus, it cant carry the same timing as the meth car can. So yes, meth will get people to higher HP numbers, but not just because it is a "fuel", its because of its other characteristics as well.
The car... meanwhile, is already making deliberate choices to RUN RICH on gasoline alone, when it experiences engine knock and sees certain IAT2 tempts, etc...
the meth chills the car out, so that those choices are not made to run rich using the gasoline.
im going to go out on a limb and say the car will run more rich WITHOUT meth, than it will WITH meth, if the meth is brought on in the correct dosage.... and prevents knock, from the gasoline only situation, where the car would choose to run rich using gasoline alone, after it detects the detonation etc.
Do i recommend his meth control box is tuned on a Dyno with a wideband 02 sensor in the exhaust to monitor the situation and make sure that things are in safe parameters? yes. But does the car's stock ecu need to be tuned? absolutely not. Will the meth control be able to be tuned to keep the car in safe parameters? yes... the car will be safer after the meth is added, than before it was, hands down, no question.
Last edited by Mikec7z; 07-31-2018 at 03:47 PM.
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07-31-2018, 03:47 PM
#10
Who's done water/ Meth injection? and where did you mount the nozzle? After MAF in the intake tube? Thinking of this just to keep the intake cooler. What brand and controller? Boost or MAF? Thanks
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CorvetteBrent (08-02-2018)
07-31-2018, 03:51 PM
#11
after the maf. A simple setup would be 2 nozzles in the intake pipe after the maf.
A more elaborate expensive setup would be a port injection nozzle just above the cooling bricks or just below the cooling bricks, at each cylinder intake runner.
I dont know which units are the best these days, just make sure it is tunable and can be ramped up gradually, and you are golden.
i have had it on many cars over the years, but not my current stock z. I would add it, but this car is about to be sold. It will be on my next car most likely
A more elaborate expensive setup would be a port injection nozzle just above the cooling bricks or just below the cooling bricks, at each cylinder intake runner.
I dont know which units are the best these days, just make sure it is tunable and can be ramped up gradually, and you are golden.
i have had it on many cars over the years, but not my current stock z. I would add it, but this car is about to be sold. It will be on my next car most likely
Last edited by Mikec7z; 07-31-2018 at 09:27 PM.
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07-31-2018, 03:56 PM
#12
Racer
this is not a fully accurate statement.
first and foremost, if it is fuel, it might make his car run a little rich... not the end of the world like running lean... but lets look at what the meth actually does...
it is more than fuel, what it is, is an octane booster essentially, and a cooling agent, neither of those require a tune.
The main reason meth cars, are able to make more power before they run out of fuel, vs another car without meth apples to apples in all other areas, is because the other car is experiencing pre-detonation sooner in its boost levels, and thus, it cant carry the same timing as the meth car can. So yes, meth will get people to higher HP numbers, but not just because it is a "fuel", its because of its other characteristics as well.
The car... meanwhile, is already making deliberate choices to RUN RICH on gasoline alone, when it experiences engine knock and sees certain IAT2 tempts, etc...
the meth chills the car out, so that those choices are not made to run rich using the gasoline.
im going to go out on a limb and say the car will run more rich WITHOUT meth, than it will WITH meth, if the meth is brought on in the correct dosage.... and prevents knock, from the gasoline only situation, where the car would choose to run rich using gasoline alone, after it detects the detonation etc.
Do i recommend his meth control box is tuned on a Dyno with a wideband 02 sensor in the exhaust to monitor the situation and make sure that things are in safe parameters? yes. But does the car's stock ecu need to be tuned? absolutely not. Will the meth control be able to be tuned to keep the car in safe parameters? yes... the car will be safer after the meth is added, than before it was, hands down, no question.
first and foremost, if it is fuel, it might make his car run a little rich... not the end of the world like running lean... but lets look at what the meth actually does...
it is more than fuel, what it is, is an octane booster essentially, and a cooling agent, neither of those require a tune.
The main reason meth cars, are able to make more power before they run out of fuel, vs another car without meth apples to apples in all other areas, is because the other car is experiencing pre-detonation sooner in its boost levels, and thus, it cant carry the same timing as the meth car can. So yes, meth will get people to higher HP numbers, but not just because it is a "fuel", its because of its other characteristics as well.
The car... meanwhile, is already making deliberate choices to RUN RICH on gasoline alone, when it experiences engine knock and sees certain IAT2 tempts, etc...
the meth chills the car out, so that those choices are not made to run rich using the gasoline.
im going to go out on a limb and say the car will run more rich WITHOUT meth, than it will WITH meth, if the meth is brought on in the correct dosage.... and prevents knock, from the gasoline only situation, where the car would choose to run rich using gasoline alone, after it detects the detonation etc.
Do i recommend his meth control box is tuned on a Dyno with a wideband 02 sensor in the exhaust to monitor the situation and make sure that things are in safe parameters? yes. But does the car's stock ecu need to be tuned? absolutely not. Will the meth control be able to be tuned to keep the car in safe parameters? yes... the car will be safer after the meth is added, than before it was, hands down, no question.
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ajrothm (08-01-2018)
07-31-2018, 04:02 PM
#13
what happens if i sprayed straight water?
is that fuel?
do most people spray 100% pure meth?
Have you ever done what I am speaking of on a stock Z that pulls timing and TB blade to take the car from 650 down into the 500's?
do you know what it takes to make the car NOT do this? Temperature alone prevents the car from doing this. Yes water evaporating ALONE lowers temperature.
There are ways this can be done... and i would recommend anyone who does this not run over 40% meth... if it richens it too much, then run 20% meth and 80% water... or even a thinner ratio... but will it benefit the car once that ratio and ramp up rate is found?...
YES.
There will be a ratio of water and meth that help the stock vehicle avoid knock and stay at or near full power, when it would have been in the 500's or below otherwise. Hell, it probably keeps a car from limp mode if the engine overheating is a person's problem, it keeps the entire system cooler, which it does... as timing pulled actually makes the system HOTTER.
Does the car have to be tuned? NO
is telling someone they have to tune it... scaring them away from doing the procedure since they want to maintain their stock warranty obviously, is this poor advice?... yes... it is poor advice. That is why im countering you right now... otherwise i would let it go.
you are giving people incorrect advice, and dealing in extremes and absolutes, in attempt to prove you are right...
Can meth be bad for a stock tune... SURE. But does it have to be if done correctly... NO... it is beneficial.
That is reality, if you disagree, i encourage you and others to test what im saying
is that fuel?
do most people spray 100% pure meth?
Have you ever done what I am speaking of on a stock Z that pulls timing and TB blade to take the car from 650 down into the 500's?
do you know what it takes to make the car NOT do this? Temperature alone prevents the car from doing this. Yes water evaporating ALONE lowers temperature.
There are ways this can be done... and i would recommend anyone who does this not run over 40% meth... if it richens it too much, then run 20% meth and 80% water... or even a thinner ratio... but will it benefit the car once that ratio and ramp up rate is found?...
YES.
There will be a ratio of water and meth that help the stock vehicle avoid knock and stay at or near full power, when it would have been in the 500's or below otherwise. Hell, it probably keeps a car from limp mode if the engine overheating is a person's problem, it keeps the entire system cooler, which it does... as timing pulled actually makes the system HOTTER.
Does the car have to be tuned? NO
is telling someone they have to tune it... scaring them away from doing the procedure since they want to maintain their stock warranty obviously, is this poor advice?... yes... it is poor advice. That is why im countering you right now... otherwise i would let it go.
you are giving people incorrect advice, and dealing in extremes and absolutes, in attempt to prove you are right...
Can meth be bad for a stock tune... SURE. But does it have to be if done correctly... NO... it is beneficial.
That is reality, if you disagree, i encourage you and others to test what im saying
Last edited by Mikec7z; 08-01-2018 at 08:42 PM.
07-31-2018, 04:43 PM
#14
I'm running the Snow Performance setup with their Boost Juice (51/49 water/meth). What's great with this setup is that you have a lifetime warranty through them if you use their Boost Juice, which is good stuff anyway. Nozzle is mounted roughly 6" after the MAF....on my AFE intake tube at least. Mine is also set to spray incrementally starting about 2lbs and then ramps up to full spray beyond 9lbs. I use the windshield washer bottle as the container for the many benefits and added a small light in the dash to show when it's spraying.
07-31-2018, 05:16 PM
#16
07-31-2018, 05:25 PM
#17
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Oct 2005
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If your going to spray meth to not require a tune then essentially your going to spray so little-say smaller than 5gph nozzle to not do anything-no octane, no cooling but it will still change the AFR and make it fatter-especially when the factory tune kicks in COTS. When meth hits the rotors it will essentially just evaporate.
Why would Cat Overheat Protection kick in anyway, since the meth produces lower exhaust gas temperatures, and the richer mixture would already be mimicking the cat overheat protection mode?
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Mikec7z (07-31-2018)
08-01-2018, 03:37 AM
#19
Team Owner
If your going to spray meth to not require a tune then essentially your going to spray so little-say smaller than 5gph nozzle to not do anything-no octane, no cooling but it will still change the AFR and make it fatter-especially when the factory tune kicks in COTS. When meth hits the rotors it will essentially just evaporate.
08-01-2018, 03:53 AM
#20
Team Owner
I'm running the Snow Performance setup with their Boost Juice (51/49 water/meth). What's great with this setup is that you have a lifetime warranty through them if you use their Boost Juice, which is good stuff anyway. Nozzle is mounted roughly 6" after the MAF....on my AFE intake tube at least. Mine is also set to spray incrementally starting about 2lbs and then ramps up to full spray beyond 9lbs. I use the windshield washer bottle as the container for the many benefits and added a small light in the dash to show when it's spraying.
Here is some advice!
http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced...injection.html
http://advancedperformancetuning.blo...anol-fuel.html
I would trust other sources for real facts other than this thread before I added a meth kit untuned!
/
Last edited by 3 Z06ZR1; 08-01-2018 at 04:23 AM.