Tim Porreca

rico750sxi

I will say this, if you're running in traffic or with even one car in front of you and he runs off track a bit you will want your car taped or xpel wrapped. You can see it in one or Poor-sha's videos where the car in front of him puts a wheel off and it peppered him pretty good. For me having the front of the car wrapped with xpel has helped a lot and given me piece of mind on track and street.

Bill Dearborn

Were you running with the half quart oil over fill recommended by GM in the Track and Competitive Driving section of the OM?

Yes, it does take some time to get used to playing with all of the settings. The C7 is the first car that I found I had to memorize the OM. Over the last 60 years I basically glanced at all the other OMs and threw them in the glove box and left them there. As for tire pressure GM recommends 26 psi cold for track duty. The car works better with that pressure.

As for track insurance it is up to you how much you insure the car for but I can usually insure my Z for $72K for about $400 with a 10% deductible. I find that Hagerty seems to have better rates for most events. It is a balancing act deciding whether to insure for total loss coverage or damage that is somewhat less. With a 10% deductible $72K means the damage has to exceed $7200 before it will be paid for. The problem is if it is $10 or $12K then you need to decide whether you want to submit a claim since they track the number of claims an individual has. If you have two you may not be able to purchase the insurance for a while.

Bill

Tim Porreca

Mad Dog 24

#4 is a problem with all Z06 owners! When I first started to track my car I put a 3 inch yellow tape across my radio face and wrote in black marker. MIRRORS. It would catch my eye on the straights enough to glance in the mirror. Usually the first lap to warm up the tires gets me thinking now enough to remember. I don't want to be that guy that holds up the hot dogs! Glad you have a fun safe day.

ScottKolek

Appreciate the write up! I'm hoping to track stock Z06/Z07 for the first time this coming Monday. What year is yours? Auto or manual? Any "overheating" issues? Mine is a 2017 A8, and have had the power steering cooling duct installed, as well as everything else per the owners manual done at the dealership last week. My temps on Monday out here, in North Central Minnesota for Monday should be humid in the mid-80's.

Tim Porreca

Scoobydoobydoo

Can I ask what it cost ya for the track time? I'd like to head down there and give it a try as well.

BrunoTheMellow

Find a good driver with a slower car car (same engine and driven wheel setup) and trail them. Even if you have to slow on the straights. It will help you learn lines and when to let go of the brake, etc. Watch lots of videos of fast guys and you'll learn .

$Bill

Track Insurance tip:
Check Hagerty track insurance for SCCA Tracknight events as they are a sponsor.. Cheaper and easier to buy. You can even buy online after the event begins.
https://www.hagerty.com/insurance/track-day-insurance

Tim Porreca

I went with the Delval BMW group. Lots of non BMWs running and everyone was super nice and helpful. Also super safety oriented! It was $475 for the weekend, very affordable if you have a helmet and your car is prepped already. With hotel, meals, track costs and car prep it was probably $1000-$1200 for the weekend.

http://www.delvalbmwcca.org/events/e...px?EventID=108

blackbirdws6

Good write-up and glad you had fun. I will be headed there for another SCCA Track Night in September. Maybe other members will be racing as well since I do see a few C7s in attendance.

Mikec7z

you'll turn those pss to butter soon enough a couple hot laps through the curves, and they get soft quick. For the street tho, those are the tire for sure IMO.

Poor-sha

How much track time do you have on the MPSS ZP? I don't run them often because used slicks are faster and cheaper but they're really not a bad track tire, especially for a novice/intermediate driver. I ran a 2:00.2 at VIR on them in the Z06. A fellow instructor who runs more track days than I do runs them exclusively and is pretty quick.

OP, glad you had a good time and sounds like you did it right. Welcome to the addiction.

Mikec7z

im already aware of your great times on the tires, and i preach highly of the tires often. I believe the cups are useless on the street unless one is allowed to travel at 130mph and never go to jail, and those pss tires will handle better on the street at the lower temps.

However, are you able to turn the pss to butter within no time? I am able, and I can feel the difference.

Simple common sense says that the reason the slicks and cup tires are faster is because they dont turn into butter when the PSS do.

I will not answer your questions of how much time on a track, because i have been informed i am not allowed to attack forum member's personally... so i will expect the same rules moving forward back towards me.

Simple question is... can they be turned to butter or cant they? Easier than slicks and cup tires? I say, from my experiences, yes they can, and it was a compliment to the OP that he will progress and get to that point soon of being able to turn them to butter as you and I can.

Mikec7z

but, ive never minded being challenged, as long as others dont mind when i step up and throw some back I know you are a great driver, and by no means is this next post an insinuation that I or anyone else are better than you... nor would i ever be rude enough to try to insinuate that you arent a capable enough driver to take a set of ties to their limits, as you just so kindly did to me

Here is why i did not answer your question... im a logical person, and IF i happen to be, or someone I know happens to be, capable of long enough stints of high speed driving on the street... to take these tires to butter... then HOW would a person, such as yourself, believe THAT is possible, when you are already questioning whether or not I can actually do it on a track?

you and I come from 2 ends of the spectrum of driving. I have been driving vettes and other fast cars at their limits for 20 years. I am in my mid 30's now. I have chilled out much compared to what I used to do, and how I would do it. But here are a few screen shots, in a couple of these, the tires are butter. None of these photos am I necessarily the driver, nor do i necessarily know who is, perhaps i found these on the internet. But the one thing i will tell you is, i have hunch i know when the tires were butter in the following screeenshots...


Coming into a curve after tires have already been butter in previous curves... front tires begin to unhook under heavy braking, the driver knows if he continues on this current path, he will plow into the other vehicle and into the wall, so he instantly reacts by putting the car into an intentional drift where the back tires will help him around the curve, to do this he blips quickly to full throttle...



Same as above, after drift has been initiated via full throttle...
This is a slight drift, it started out where the front tires were unhooking because the person driving came into the curve, braking hard, from over 100mph, and the front tires became butter. The driver had 1 of 2 choices, fade to the right and hit the other car and eventually the wall, or cause his vette to instead kick the back end out to put more responsibility on the back tires to help the car around the curve and also scrub off speed. He may or may not have had a passenger in the car who weighed over 250lbs, and thus the driver underestimated the car and the front tires ability to make the curve, as he had already been taking many long sweeping curves at over 100mph which were larger radius than this particular curve. This photo is of the car in a sustained drift, and shows the full throttle needed and deliberately used to initiate that drift, otherwise, he would have wrecked his vette as the front tires were butter at this moment.



Same evening, this turn was actually BEFORE the turn shown above here the front tires are also butter, driver was above 150mph prior to this curve, and as the turn begins, he is still well over 120, hard on the brakes, By this point he has let off the brakes, and is just trying to make the curve, since the front tires are butter. Normally, he would be into acceleration here, putting responsibility onto the back tires which are not butter, but it appears he has to stop up ahead, doesn't it?

Here the driver is accelerating through a long series of S curves. He would be pulling 1 lateral G instead of .9, but this is somewhat of a blind curve, and one statistic is, he has never wrecked a vette, or any car for that matter, while speeding. He knows his limit, and leaves himself a cushion in case things go wrong.


Same S as above... driver is back on the throttle, the severity of the curve scrubs off speed, due to the car's rear end being intentionally loose via the alignment, so he has to stay on the throttle to maintain even speed as where he was earlier in the curve. Since he grew up since age 8, drifting cars in the dirt, a LOOSE car is what he prefers as a person can react to bad situations and get a loose car to drift and have all 4 tires fighting the curve when unexpected obstacles arise. (while you might be faster around the track than he is, he MIGHT have the confidence to challenge you to a high speed drift contest, should you and he ever meet, so you might want to practice up on that, just in case you don't like coming in last place)


Same S as above.... Driver is at FULL throttle at over 130mph with 650hp and no wing on the back, while pulling .9 lateral G. He might not be AS GOOD as you poor-sha, but he is not as bad as others, and he has been driving very fast, for a very very long time.

Maybe one day you will find out who he is, and when that day comes, you will also find out that if you put his name into the internet, you will see he was famous for driving fast, before he ever graduated HS. And before you suggest he become a pro racer and go to tracks, maybe he has a busy life and does not want to be famous for racing, he has to stay under the radar, as his OTHER stories are probably even less believable for a person such as yourself, if we are already doubting the simple fact that he can turn pss into butter... while on the street, much less, a track where it is curve after curve.

once again, this is not necessarily me, nor do i necessarily know who the driver is in these photos. I may have found these on the internet, and i may have just lied my *** off about everything. Have a great day... you are the best driver, no one is as good as you, and that ALSO means no one else can turn PSS into butter. Is that what you wanted everyone to know, and the intention of your post towards me? I surrender, you win.

Mikec7z

i have an idea for a fictional movie... let me know if you think it is too cliche... its where this guy knows he is a good driver, but that alone bores him... so he basically joins the cia at a very early age because he is an adrenaline junky and also loves solving problems, and gets into a bunch of other nonsense during his life. Along the way, he makes friends with a ton of cops, and he can either outrun them, or he just calls and lets them know its him they are chasing and they back off since they know he can drive better than they can, and they do this because they know he works for the government as well. (they noticed when they give him tickets, certain people high up in the govt veto the ticket from sticking) he is also very humble and nice to the cops, so they all get along well.

So he travels everywhere he goes at insane speeds, and his license is clean, because even if a cop he does not know, issues him a ticket, he can have it erased from the govt computers the next day/month/whenever. But he is not allowed to tell the public this, because then people would all get jealous.... especially the guys who go to tracks and have to go in circles all day like a hamster on a wheel, pretending they are amazing as they memorize exactly where to brake and exactly where to accelerate, while meanwhile, the main character in my fictional movie, actually is allowed to use speed to accomplish good for mankind instead of try to win a trophy so he can stand on a podium and then brag on a forum about it And he does it on different roads every day, as he feels that is more of a challenge then memorizing a circuit like a robot.

The only problem is, when he observes others have the right to be arrogant, he questions... well then why should he not also be arrogant towards them specifically, when he is met with arrogance from them initially? Give people their mirror image at minimum?

Coincidentally this person and his friends, drive cars so fast so often, they are often the ones who find glitches with them, and thus lemon law the cars because they literally run them longer and harder than the test engineers at GM or any other manufacturer.

They like vettes because they are fast, and also under the radar compared to lambos and such. They just wish GM would do a better job on them. They also like teslas because they are silent. They have these "batcaves" full of black corvettes and teslas that have been modified. They look forward to the new electric porsche that is coming out as well.

Cool movie idea huh? lol Would you go see it?.. or would you just say that's so unrealistic and avoid it since the guys in the movie mock people who drive in circles on tracks all day and those same people say that going fast on a street equals accidents, since it is apparent, that is the truth when it is the OTHER people who are driving on the street... who brag that they are the amazing drivers since they can memorize a track and go in circles all day with no real surprises ever?

Probably too unrealistic huh? My imagination is so dumb. No humans would ever exist like this, earn such freedoms, or think this way of others or laugh at other's unfounded arrogance relative to what they have the right to be arrogant about, but usually are humble instead.

Its odd, america's reality, vs germany's reality. Over there, if you drive fast and wreck, you suck. Over here, if you drive fast, and you dont wreck, you are evil like a robber or child molester and need to be thrown in prison. We dont blame the person ONLY if/when they crash, we assume people are ALL guilty of being horrible drivers, and are guilty before they ever commit the crime of wrecking and actually damaging property.

Meanwhile, we brag that we are free, and we mostly all seem to agree that germans are not free, and have an evil naz*i (bad/censored word on this forum, thus the star in the middle) residue lingering which means they are not as free as we are.

Reality...They are more free than we are. Americans think more socialistic than they do about everything from speed limits, to levels of drivers licenses all being easy to achieve for all, and lack the iq to realize true freedom, is when you have tests that allow people more freedom than the average joe, and EVERYONE should be allowed to take the tests, and if they pass, they earn greater freedom... instead of limit everyone to the weakest persons capability and call that "freedom". Our brags are empty and lame. But luckily there are some americans who get it, and they take the necessary steps in life to earn MORE freedom than the people who pretend they are at the top of the food chain.

I watched way too much knight rider as a kid probably. And dukes of hazard.

PS... PSS dont ever melt, unless you are poor sha

Winner

Mikec7z

just out of curiosity Poor-Sha, since you like competitions, and this is completely off the topic of who I am or my capabilities, i am just curious what your honest opinion is...

would you say you are a better driver than powerslide lover in the above video? Or would you give credit due that a person like that, who can drift multi million dollar cars like this around on the street, without wrecking, time after time after time, at a very young age, might have a skill set, that you do not have?

Just curious what your opinion of this person is, is it all luck? or is there a skill there and he knows exactly what he is doing and can come within inches of other cars at any time and not wreck, and as soon as he knows he is past them, he can put the car into a wobble again under fierce acceleration... as most "great drivers at tracks" would wreck, if you asked them to do things at random, on random surfaces, and unpracticed curves, and drift for style points and for the pure art and pleasure of driving and improving ones self?

Here is his youtube channel, one of the few people on the planet who I think can actually drive well.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh7...DCKdLEDRWUHaWQ

Poor-sha

Mike, I stopped reading half way through your second post. You seem like a nice person and I generally try to avoid getting in arguments on the forum because it's a no win situation but I wrote what I wrote for a couple of reasons. First, I genuinely don't know your background, just what I've seen you post. I did the same thing with heavychevy and it's how I learned he was someone with multiple lap records and as such I could learn a lot from him. Second, I have experience that is different than what you posted so I wanted to provide an alternate view based on my experience. It was doing the OP disservice to tell him he had to run off and buy new tires because the MPSS would "turn to butter".

Finally, you have a tendency of posting things as facts that are guesses on your part or at a minimum are from limited information and it seemed this might be the case here. In my book it's ok to not be sure and try to help someone by offering an educated opinion but I think it's important to make sure the recipient knows this may be incorrect info and to dig further. I like using words like "I believe", "I think", or "I'm not sure but..." to indicate when I am unsure whereas you tend to post something as a definitive answer and then when you turn out to be wrong you admit it was just a guess. This forum is already full of a bunch of mythology from people guessing and posting it authoritatively, let's not add to the problem.

Now, I do agree that both MPSS and MPSC2 will get greasy after a relatively small number of hot laps if pushed hard. They also will lose a lot of grip of the pressures get too high. I've never heard the expression "turn to butter" before but I'm going to assume that the tire getting slippery is what you're referring to. I don't feel that the MPSC2 is substantively better than the MPSS in this area and if you work a set of slicks hard enough you can also overheat them. These are big heavy cars so they put a lot of energy in the tire. However, as I said you can still turn pretty good lap times on all of them and if you don't abuse the tire they hold up pretty well.

As far as my driving and other drivers, who's better, etc. I think I'm a decent driver, nothing special. I am blessed to have had the C7Z for a long time and had the opportunity to spend a lot of time on track with it. I didn't watch your videos because drifting doesn't interest me but I do agree that it requires great car control which is an element of being fast on track. As far as the videos of people honing around at super-legal speeds on the street I think they're idiots and it's why I go to track.

Have a great weekend.

Mikec7z

I agree with everything you said, and yes, butter meant greasy, and I only assumed that the tire life fades very quickly once the tires are taken to that point (when i get to that point, i chill out and drive straight and take less curves or chill around the curves, hiway driving does not usually have curve after curve unless one hunts for the curves, and at a race track, one does not have the luxury of avoiding curves to then let the tires cool back down), and the greasy tires will also eventually hurt his lap times and ability to control the car as well had a more race oriented tire been used (i believe).

still an arrogance with you tho (i read half your post, i dont have time for the second half) Why even write such a thing? I wouldn't, even if it were true. Lets just make people feel like s*** for no reason.

And when i see this, i mirror it... on purpose, to see if people can handle themselves.

I wont retaliate, you be you, but just know, there is a much better way to be.

PS, i like turtles.

You always think you are above people, and you don't realize, maybe the reason I am long winded is because when i am short winded, i confuse people and it takes triple typing to undo their poor assumptions since i was not thorough, which just happened in another thread just before this ironically.

It has not dawned on you yet that there are people in this world who play possum, just to see who the insecure people are who treat the little guy like s***

Practice your drifting my friend, we will meet soon Ill make sure i have a special bumper sticker on the back of my car... about turtles.