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DeWitts TOC/EOC Combination system

 
Old 06-11-2019, 06:49 PM
  #281  
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Originally Posted by Pluggzz View Post
Thanks for the explanation. So is it then overkill and not necessary to get the 70 mm with the TC?
That's hard to say. You will have the maximum cooling and the oil temps will benefit from that. So this combination works too. Who ever thought this kit up is a real genius!
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Old 06-11-2019, 07:32 PM
  #282  
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Originally Posted by Tom DeWitt View Post
That's hard to say. You will have the maximum cooling and the oil temps will benefit from that. So this combination works too. Who ever thought this kit up is a real genius!
Safe answer
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Old 06-11-2019, 07:34 PM
  #283  
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Originally Posted by Pluggzz View Post
Thanks for the explanation. So is it then overkill and not necessary to get the 70 mm with the TC?
I would get it if you got the $. Just because you're not hitting limp mode doesn't mean you aren't losing power. At 240+ coolant temp , the Z06 has no more power than an lt1
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Old 06-11-2019, 07:53 PM
  #284  
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Originally Posted by Tom DeWitt View Post
TC vs TO I've been emailed a few times for my opinion on this issue so here is my explanation

The goal was to make faults impossible, no matter how good or bad of a driver you are and how hot it is outside. Time will tell if that's the case but I dare someone to tell me the TO kit and with the 70mm faulted.
This should work because it (TO) takes care of oil faults and increases cooling by subtracting load. The 70mm radiator is a beast and you cannot put anything bigger in there.

It's been said the TC in a A8 is just like having a GMPP in the M7. This is true and most people said that it works for cooling. This takes care of 98% of the drivers. Now I might sound like Bernie Sanders, but what about the other 2%. They are going to end up adding a bigger radiator and if you add that, you don't really need the half cooler anymore. The TC has value and it will have an effect on oil temps but my personal preference is to have a dedicated cooler for coolant (radiator) transmission, and oil.. That's just me, six of one, half a dozen.
Tom in the Gspeed thread you said the 70 mm radiator was measured to be 10% better than the 57mm radiator. Have you tested the 57 mm vs the stock c7 radiator size (I think it's a 25 mm or 26 mm).
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:36 PM
  #285  
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Originally Posted by BrunoTheMellow View Post
Have you tested the 57 mm vs the stock c7 radiator size (I think it's a 25 mm or 26 mm).
No testing, but we already proved the upgrade from single row to double row in the C4-C6 generations. Major reduction in coolant temperatures. I think the C7 stock rad is a 32mm (1.25") single row. I can measure tomorow.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:52 AM
  #286  
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Originally Posted by BrunoTheMellow View Post
Tom in the Gspeed thread you said the 70 mm radiator was measured to be 10% better than the 57mm radiator. Have you tested the 57 mm vs the stock c7 radiator size (I think it's a 25 mm or 26 mm).
Sorry to butt in here, but I have some data that may be relevant. I do not have a direct comparison between DeWitt's 57mm radiator and the stock C7 radiator. However, I did a comparison of the Ron Davis radiator and the stock C7 radiator after I installed the Ron Davis radiator back in 2015. (Please see link below.) I expect the results for DeWitt's 57mm would be better and I will be swapping to that shortly along with their 32-TC kit. If I get an 80 degree to work with, I should be able to add that data to the comparison below.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-radiator.html

Last edited by peterjank; 06-12-2019 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:35 AM
  #287  
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Originally Posted by peterjank View Post
Sorry to butt in here, but I have some data that may be relevant. I do not have a direct comparison between DeWitt's 57mm radiator and the stock C7 radiator. However, I did a comparison of the Ron Davis radiator and the stock C7 radiator after I installed the Ron Davis radiator back in 2015. (Please see link below.) I expect the results for DeWitt's 57mm would be better and I will be swapping to that shortly along with their 32-TC kit. If I get an 80 degree to work with, I should be able to add that data to the comparison below.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-radiator.html
fantastic! Thanks for the data point. I would not upgrade to the 57 mm, I would go directly to the 70 mm. I wouldn't expect noticeable improvement from the RD 57 mm to the Dewitts 57 mm. Unless you get all your money back and do the work yourself, not worth it. Go big.

It looks like you improved ~8* coolant with the Ron Davis radiator. I assume the 70 mm would improve by another 5-7 degrees.

Here's another data point where someone tested a C&R 27 mm core (Tom, stock 2015-2018 manual is 27 mm, sizes went up on 2018 and 2019). Although not extensive testing, he saw negligible improvement from just a core design change.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-analysis.html
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:46 AM
  #288  
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Originally Posted by BrunoTheMellow View Post
I would get it if you got the $. Just because you're not hitting limp mode doesn't mean you aren't losing power. At 240+ coolant temp , the Z06 has no more power than an lt1
You are making an assumption that with the hot engine oil removed from the radiator circuit you will still see water temps that high. I strongly doubt that you will, and by my reading Tom is alluding to the fact that on an A8 car equipped with the combo Transmission/Engine Oil cooler you will not see any “faults”. This should include the ECU pulling power due to high engine temps.

However, if one is a fast Advanced driver at your local HPDE, personally I’d throw the 70mm radiator in the car also.

Bish
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:05 AM
  #289  
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Originally Posted by thebishman View Post
You are making an assumption that with the hot engine oil removed from the radiator circuit you will still see water temps that high. I strongly doubt that you will, and by my reading Tom is alluding to the fact that on an A8 car equipped with the combo Transmission/Engine Oil cooler you will not see any “faults”. This should include the ECU pulling power due to high engine temps.

However, if one is a fast Advanced driver at your local HPDE, personally I’d throw the 70mm radiator in the car also.

Bish
Not an assumption. tested by gspeed. 260 coolant 275 oil with an external oil cooler (with a very fast driver in a very hot track, but test nonetheless). I posted these test results previously. BUT, that design oil cooler blocked a good bit of fresh airflow from the grill to the radiator. The problem is the 160-180 degree air coming out of the charge air heat exchanger into the radiator. Need fresh air to a coolant heat exchanger (that's why the GMPP aux radiator works well for how shitty the core seems to be).

Last edited by BrunoTheMellow; 06-12-2019 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 06-13-2019, 05:39 PM
  #290  
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Tom, any news on the coolant only (one piece) version that replaces the AUX rad? I would love to give it a shot in mid-summer, when the temps pickup, to see how much it helps on coolant and oil. I'm also guessing it will be a simpler kit?
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:37 PM
  #291  
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Originally Posted by X25 View Post
Tom, any news on the coolant only (one piece) version that replaces the AUX rad? I would love to give it a shot in mid-summer, when the temps pickup, to see how much it helps on coolant and oil. I'm also guessing it will be a simpler kit?
You can order one from the C7 products page. It's part number 32-C7AUX from the pull down menu. We made one for LagunaSecaZ06 but haven't heard any feed back yet
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:43 PM
  #292  
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Originally Posted by Tom DeWitt View Post
You can order one from the C7 products page. It's part number 32-C7AUX from the pull down menu. We made one for LagunaSecaZ06 but haven't heard any feed back yet
Great, found it!

Since there's no explanation for this option on the site: Does it come with any hoses, etc.? I am wondering if it also replaces any hose that you mentioned might be limiting the flow rate. I presume it also comes with the same instructions re:enlarging the opening, etc. Please let us know : )

Oh, I also presume it has about 2x cooling capacity (since half of it was about same as OEM AUX cooling capacity)?

Last edited by X25; 06-13-2019 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:22 PM
  #293  
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Originally Posted by X25 View Post
Great, found it!

Since there's no explanation for this option on the site: Does it come with any hoses, etc.? I am wondering if it also replaces any hose that you mentioned might be limiting the flow rate. I presume it also comes with the same instructions re:enlarging the opening, etc. Please let us know : )Oh, I also presume it has about 2x cooling capacity (since half of it was about same as OEM AUX cooling capacity)?
I am working in the instruction sheet. It does involve similar cutting but slightly different. It's not 2x the GMPP because this Aux (15.5") unit isn't as long as the combo cooler (19.5") The surface are is 1.5 x or 50% more and if you follow through with the deflector modification and lower venting the rating will be much higher than not. You will re-route the existing hose from the oil cooler to the Aux. We will supply a new longer hose to go from the oil cooler to the Aux. No restricting steel lines.
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:54 PM
  #294  
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Originally Posted by Tom DeWitt View Post
I am working in the instruction sheet. It does involve similar cutting but slightly different. It's not 2x the GMPP because this Aux (15.5") unit isn't as long as the combo cooler (19.5") The surface are is 1.5 x or 50% more and if you follow through with the deflector modification and lower venting the rating will be much higher than not. You will re-route the existing hose from the oil cooler to the Aux. We will supply a new longer hose to go from the oil cooler to the Aux. No restricting steel lines.
Tom. Wouldn't running 2 coolant coolers side by side in series provide more surface area than your bigger unit?
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:58 PM
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I should also note, I'd be worried about adding those cutouts, since they'll reduce the flow to the main radiator, etc. I'm just not sure if it'd be a good change or not. Please tell me if I'm thinking wrong : )

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Old 06-13-2019, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom DeWitt View Post
I am working in the instruction sheet. It does involve similar cutting but slightly different. It's not 2x the GMPP because this Aux (15.5") unit isn't as long as the combo cooler (19.5") The surface are is 1.5 x or 50% more and if you follow through with the deflector modification and lower venting the rating will be much higher than not. You will re-route the existing hose from the oil cooler to the Aux. We will supply a new longer hose to go from the oil cooler to the Aux. No restricting steel lines.
Just ordered one (C7AUX)! Looking forward to seeing how it works out.

Since you're still writing the instructions, I presume it will take some time to ship?

Last edited by X25; 06-13-2019 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 06-14-2019, 05:43 PM
  #297  
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Originally Posted by X25 View Post
Just ordered one (C7AUX)! Looking forward to seeing how it works out.

Since you're still writing the instructions, I presume it will take some time to ship?
Probably not more than two weeks. I'm staying on this program until it's on autopilot
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:54 PM
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I ordered on Tuesday...any idea on eta for the TC combo? Thanks!
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Old 06-14-2019, 07:25 PM
  #299  
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Originally Posted by Pluggzz View Post
I ordered on Tuesday...any idea on eta for the TC combo? Thanks!
I brazed today and I hoped to have all new orders ready to ship out by next week Tuesday . Unfortunately yours crashed in the furnace and I'm on vacation next week. I will be assembling more cores tomorrow and they will braze them while I'm gone. So, I am looking at 6/25 for a ship date for yours.
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by X25 View Post
I should also note, I'd be worried about adding those cutouts, since they'll reduce the flow to the main radiator, etc. I'm just not sure if it'd be a good change or not. Please tell me if I'm thinking wrong : )
You are not wrong to be concerned and yes what goes out the bottom does not go through the radiator. I like the fact you guys are really thinking this through. Engine cooling design is always a balancing act and the last thing you want to do is make it worse. In this case, the air not going through the radiator is really hot and that's a good thing. By design, the 1/2 coolers are pretty air restrictive with only 1/8" tall fin. This alone will limit how much air can take this path. But we will also be able to regulate it by adjusting the hole size in the lower deflector. There is a plan to offer an adjustable louver that bolts to the deflector. DeWItts did not want to make this part of the kit so the base cost was more reasonable and people could decide on the vent to not. More on this in a bit. Meanwhile, I'm wondering... how many are on the fense, waiting to see feedback from CF members? Just trying to get a feel for what i should gear up for?
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