New Best 9.84! Pulled the wheels!
10-20-2018, 12:47 PM
#21
Team Owner
That’s awesome! Great run and congrats! As far as the timing if you research the 18% pulley that’s why most people add meth for cooling to stop the timing from being pulled. Before my Procharger I went with 15% pulley because I didn’t want to add meth and I was barely able to squeak by the 1/4 before it pulled timing. The 18% will definitely create more power and as a side effect heat also. Drop in a single nozzle nozzle meth setup and watch the magic of meth!
10-20-2018, 12:48 PM
#22
Team Owner
10-20-2018, 12:57 PM
#23
Racer
Thread Starter
That’s awesome! Great run and congrats! As far as the timing if you research the 18% pulley that’s why most people add meth for cooling to stop the timing from being pulled. Before my Procharger I went with 15% pulley because I didn’t want to add meth and I was barely able to squeak by the 1/4 before it pulled timing. The 18% will definitely create more power and as a side effect heat also. Drop in a single nozzle nozzle meth setup and watch the magic of meth!
10-20-2018, 01:10 PM
#24
Team Owner
Dump the little blower it will go even quicker with the 2300 and go over 140 easy. EAT about any car including a 720s IMO! I have a 2015 and 2017 and definitely getting a 2019 and transferring my 2015 mods to it!
Last edited by 3 Z06ZR1; 10-20-2018 at 01:12 PM.
10-20-2018, 01:16 PM
#25
Racer
Thread Starter
Still the intercoolers only do so much and you are pushing a ton of air at them. The 2019's are beasts with larger HX exchangers and radiator's. Better fuel supply. I would buy the 2300 for 4400.00 and sell your 1.7 for 2000.00
Dump the little blower it will go even quicker with the 2300 and go over 140 easy. EAT about any car including a 720s IMO! I have a 2015 and 2017 and definitely getting a 2019 and transferring my 2015 mods to it!
Dump the little blower it will go even quicker with the 2300 and go over 140 easy. EAT about any car including a 720s IMO! I have a 2015 and 2017 and definitely getting a 2019 and transferring my 2015 mods to it!
10-20-2018, 01:38 PM
#27
Racer
Thread Starter
10-20-2018, 01:38 PM
#28
I see now, I did not realize you had a tune already. Only the stock tunes have the 180kPa limit. Unless you left yours in tact, but I'm sure Higgs and TA would have shut it off if they did the tune.
If you did it, and did not shut it off or raise it at least, then ask them about it.
Again, 180kPa is a limit in the tune, and when it sees this number, it does a variety of things to pull power it seems. 5th gear is typically where these cars hit it due to the ram air effects at speed.
If you did it, and did not shut it off or raise it at least, then ask them about it.
Again, 180kPa is a limit in the tune, and when it sees this number, it does a variety of things to pull power it seems. 5th gear is typically where these cars hit it due to the ram air effects at speed.
10-20-2018, 01:41 PM
#29
The dyno, it may still pull timing, but for other reasons related to heat, so that will only muddy the water.
3 WOT hiway pulls put a car into COT. Not sure on your COT settings in your custom tune, but that would be the other culprit, as you are going through 5 gears, so by the 5th, COT should be activated on the stock tune. That of course ads fuel and might be the culprit for your timing pulls.
Last edited by HessViper; 10-20-2018 at 02:01 PM.
10-20-2018, 02:13 PM
#30
Team Owner
We would advise to keep logging at the track and at speed. The dyno will not replicate the culprit most likely, as it most likely exists from the 180kPa.
The dyno, it may still pull timing, but for other reasons related to heat, so that will only muddy the water.
3 WOT hiway pulls put a car into COT. Not sure on your COT settings in your custom tune, but that would be the other culprit, as you are going through 5 gears, so by the 5th, COT should be activated on the stock tune. That of course ads fuel and might be the culprit for your timing pulls.
The dyno, it may still pull timing, but for other reasons related to heat, so that will only muddy the water.
3 WOT hiway pulls put a car into COT. Not sure on your COT settings in your custom tune, but that would be the other culprit, as you are going through 5 gears, so by the 5th, COT should be activated on the stock tune. That of course ads fuel and might be the culprit for your timing pulls.
A lot over max speed.
It is only doing hanging on as long as it does because of the improved cooling on his car and the larger HX and radiator on the 2019's. Do you see the 15.7 in boost?
10-20-2018, 02:18 PM
#31
The Mustang guys are making over 1k rwhp with the 2650 VMP any pd blower spun hard will make some serious heat. From what i have seen a full bolt on car with a max effort 2300 is good for 70 to 80 rwhp over a max effort ported 1.7. Once you start spinning the 2.3 hard it will make some serious heat also.
10-20-2018, 02:26 PM
#32
To put it into perspective, we are able to hit this 180kPa in 5th gear with stock tunes and stock pulleys. You should be making more, regardless if you are at a higher altitude.
Have you checked other points in the log? Does the MAP kPa get up to 180kPa prior to this point? What about in other gears?
Then meanwhile, over to the left, we see 212kPa... what is that number referencing?
However, your exhaust is derestricted, so perhaps 172.5kPa is where it should be, as more air is flowing easier at less actual MAP pressure after the screws, and your blower BOV butterfly vales are not opening, and/or your TB is not ordered to close angle slightly at WOT.
let us know once you figure this out. And as others have said, great run!
Last edited by HessViper; 10-20-2018 at 02:47 PM.
10-20-2018, 02:29 PM
#33
10-20-2018, 02:33 PM
#34
Correct, it will show you the AFR. Do you have any guarantee that if you see a different AFR, that you know what caused it?
Do you have any guarantee that if you do finally put your finger on what caused the timing pull and caused the AFR to go rich...
do you have any guarantee that it is the same culprit doing it on the dyno as on the racetrack at 140mph?
2 completely different environments. Ram air on one, not on the other. Heat soak on one, not on the other.
Not even sure why we responded to you, odds of you admitting that you understand are slim to none.
Do you have any guarantee that if you do finally put your finger on what caused the timing pull and caused the AFR to go rich...
do you have any guarantee that it is the same culprit doing it on the dyno as on the racetrack at 140mph?
2 completely different environments. Ram air on one, not on the other. Heat soak on one, not on the other.
Not even sure why we responded to you, odds of you admitting that you understand are slim to none.
10-20-2018, 02:51 PM
#35
Team Owner
I see now, I did not realize you had a tune already. Only the stock tunes have the 180kPa limit. Unless you left yours in tact, but I'm sure Higgs and TA would have shut it off if they did the tune.
If you did it, and did not shut it off or raise it at least, then ask them about it.
Again, 180kPa is a limit in the tune, and when it sees this number, it does a variety of things to pull power it seems. 5th gear is typically where these cars hit it due to the ram air effects at speed.
If you did it, and did not shut it off or raise it at least, then ask them about it.
Again, 180kPa is a limit in the tune, and when it sees this number, it does a variety of things to pull power it seems. 5th gear is typically where these cars hit it due to the ram air effects at speed.
We would advise to keep logging at the track and at speed. The dyno will not replicate the culprit most likely, as it most likely exists from the 180kPa.
The dyno, it may still pull timing, but for other reasons related to heat, so that will only muddy the water.
3 WOT hiway pulls put a car into COT. Not sure on your COT settings in your custom tune, but that would be the other culprit, as you are going through 5 gears, so by the 5th, COT should be activated on the stock tune. That of course ads fuel and might be the culprit for your timing pulls.
The dyno, it may still pull timing, but for other reasons related to heat, so that will only muddy the water.
3 WOT hiway pulls put a car into COT. Not sure on your COT settings in your custom tune, but that would be the other culprit, as you are going through 5 gears, so by the 5th, COT should be activated on the stock tune. That of course ads fuel and might be the culprit for your timing pulls.
Correct, it will show you the AFR. Do you have any guarantee that if you see a different AFR, that you know what caused it?
Do you have any guarantee that if you do finally put your finger on what caused the timing pull and caused the AFR to go rich...
do you have any guarantee that it is the same culprit doing it on the dyno as on the racetrack at 140mph?
2 completely different environments. Ram air on one, not on the other. Heat soak on one, not on the other.
Not even sure why we responded to you, odds of you admitting that you understand are slim to none.
Do you have any guarantee that if you do finally put your finger on what caused the timing pull and caused the AFR to go rich...
do you have any guarantee that it is the same culprit doing it on the dyno as on the racetrack at 140mph?
2 completely different environments. Ram air on one, not on the other. Heat soak on one, not on the other.
Not even sure why we responded to you, odds of you admitting that you understand are slim to none.
Home made duct.
10-20-2018, 03:13 PM
#36
You asswered you own questions but ask them again. Since the car is tuned and they are running a cat removal pipe. I don't think any of that applys.
Guarantee'ed Mike you have no idea! But you still are guessing. The blower is over spun and the ITA's are the issue. But the car is doing pretty good controlling them. What RAM air there is NONE unless he runs a Halltech tric or
Home made duct.
Guarantee'ed Mike you have no idea! But you still are guessing. The blower is over spun and the ITA's are the issue. But the car is doing pretty good controlling them. What RAM air there is NONE unless he runs a Halltech tric or
Home made duct.
If he has the TRIC intake from halltech or a homemade duct, then there is MORE ram air effect than the stock vehicle experiences.
And in the above paragraph, I was exploring the known causes that may pull timing in the stock tune. It is a possibility he accidentally overlooked shutting one of them completely off.
For instance, shutting off the o2 sensor readings in the exhaust, does not deactivate COT from activating. Once the o2 sensors are shut off, COT can still turn on based on internal calculations that the car calculates from engine coolant and oil temps, etc.
If I was certain I knew the answer, my post would reflect such. Instead, I am showing support for his question. Pure brainstorming.
Your answer is well known at this point... "abandon your current 9 second setup, it is impossible to remedy your timing pull in 5th gear with the stock 1.7 blower. May as well delete your question and close this thread. Just buy a 2300 and be like me"
Your heat response from the stock blower is not an accurate culprit, as the blower creates the same heat in gears 1-4 at max rpm as it does 5th gear, so the car would pull timing in those gears as well if it was only the blower, or the blower was "out of breath". Plus his IAT's are low in 5th as well, still below the timing pull thresholds, to the best of my knowledge, Which is why we are looking into other culprits.
And my name is Brian. But I may be friends with other people more than I am you Bob. I value their opinion on these vehicles. I would rather repeat what they and the vendor we are aligned with have to say, before I repeat what you have to say Bob.
Last edited by HessViper; 10-20-2018 at 05:50 PM.
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The Rock1 (10-24-2018)
10-20-2018, 03:32 PM
#37
Race Director
The 2300 has way more headroom than the 1700.. not an opinion. It's a fact. The 2300 is the best blower for this car fitting under that hood.
10-20-2018, 04:27 PM
#38
Racer
Thread Starter
I agree it is pulling timing. I am trying to find out if it is also limiting boost, and the timing pull is linked to the boost limitation. If you don't have the boost logged, I understand. Keep this in mind next time out, may be some valuable data in the boost logs as well. Compare gear to gear.
As far as the IAT, keep in mind, it may be IAT2 it is watching. People on this forum such as Higgs Boson have a much better understanding of the timing pulls than we do.
As far as the IAT, keep in mind, it may be IAT2 it is watching. People on this forum such as Higgs Boson have a much better understanding of the timing pulls than we do.
The following users liked this post:
HessViper (10-20-2018)
10-20-2018, 05:02 PM
#39
I see. The 135kPa, is that the baro sensor reading in the intake tube/maf? Or?
If it is the ambient baro reading inside the intake tube, then that is at least proof of ram air on the cars, as that is 34% more pressure than 101.3kPa, which is ambient pressure at sea level. If you were above sea level, ambient baro is less, so the increase to get to 135kPa is an even greater percentage increase if you were at a higher altitude.
Granted, I know ram air alone is not a problem, but there seem to be people in this thread who do not even believe ram air is an occurrence on a c7 zo6 at high speed, and thus those people do not understand the consequences of 5th gear at speed testing vs testing on a dyno.
Out of curiosity, is your 135kPa generated from stock plumbing to the intake box, or do you have a TRIC or other form of ram air ducting added to your vehicle? What track were you at for this run?
If it is the ambient baro reading inside the intake tube, then that is at least proof of ram air on the cars, as that is 34% more pressure than 101.3kPa, which is ambient pressure at sea level. If you were above sea level, ambient baro is less, so the increase to get to 135kPa is an even greater percentage increase if you were at a higher altitude.
Granted, I know ram air alone is not a problem, but there seem to be people in this thread who do not even believe ram air is an occurrence on a c7 zo6 at high speed, and thus those people do not understand the consequences of 5th gear at speed testing vs testing on a dyno.
Out of curiosity, is your 135kPa generated from stock plumbing to the intake box, or do you have a TRIC or other form of ram air ducting added to your vehicle? What track were you at for this run?
Last edited by HessViper; 10-20-2018 at 05:59 PM.
10-20-2018, 05:04 PM
#40
Team Owner
That’s awesome! Great run and congrats! As far as the timing if you research the 18% pulley that’s why most people add meth for cooling to stop the timing from being pulled. Before my Procharger I went with 15% pulley because I didn’t want to add meth and I was barely able to squeak by the 1/4 before it pulled timing. The 18% will definitely create more power and as a side effect heat also. Drop in a single nozzle nozzle meth setup and watch the magic of meth!
The nose of the car pressurizes at 100+mph, creates a ram air effect, the MAP pressures after the screws increase as a result. Its documented fact at this point.
If he has the TRIC intake from halltech or a homemade duct, then there is MORE ram air effect than the stock vehicle experiences.
And in the above paragraph, I was exploring the known causes that may pull timing in the stock tune. It is a possibility he accidentally overlooked shutting one of them completely off.
For instance, shutting off the o2 sensor readings in the exhaust, does not deactivate COT from activating. Once the o2 sensors are shut off, COT can still turn on based on internal calculations that the car calculates from engine coolant and oil temps, etc.
If I was certain I knew the answer, my post would reflect such. Instead, I am showing support for his question. Pure brainstorming.
Your answer is well known at this point... "abandon your current 9 second setup, buy 2300 and be like me"
Your heat response from the stock blower is not an accurate culprit, as the blower creates the same heat in gears 1-4 at max rpm, so the car would pull timing in those gears as well if it was only the blower, or the blower was "out of breath". Plus his IAT's are low.
And my name is Brian. But I may be friends with other people more than I am you Bob. I value their opinion on these vehicles. I would rather repeat what they and the vendor we are aligned with have to say, before I repeat what you have to say Bob.
If he has the TRIC intake from halltech or a homemade duct, then there is MORE ram air effect than the stock vehicle experiences.
And in the above paragraph, I was exploring the known causes that may pull timing in the stock tune. It is a possibility he accidentally overlooked shutting one of them completely off.
For instance, shutting off the o2 sensor readings in the exhaust, does not deactivate COT from activating. Once the o2 sensors are shut off, COT can still turn on based on internal calculations that the car calculates from engine coolant and oil temps, etc.
If I was certain I knew the answer, my post would reflect such. Instead, I am showing support for his question. Pure brainstorming.
Your answer is well known at this point... "abandon your current 9 second setup, buy 2300 and be like me"
Your heat response from the stock blower is not an accurate culprit, as the blower creates the same heat in gears 1-4 at max rpm, so the car would pull timing in those gears as well if it was only the blower, or the blower was "out of breath". Plus his IAT's are low.
And my name is Brian. But I may be friends with other people more than I am you Bob. I value their opinion on these vehicles. I would rather repeat what they and the vendor we are aligned with have to say, before I repeat what you have to say Bob.