3 Z06ZR1

I see Mike is driving the same Z06 still. The highly respected in large circles "Lemon law" master plan of the new 2019's free from GM seems to be put on hold? GM is a bunch of fools they have no idea who they are messing with! Melted cats seems should really add to the speed. I wish my car could keep up but I really don't think it would?
What do you think?

3 Z06ZR1

You were the ultimate proof!

charlierogers

i see you accidentally forgot to address both dyno gains??? let me start, now seeing how are cars are both manuals and are builds are very similar except you have headers and i have chosen cat delete. all you have to do is post your base and final graphs so we can figure out how much more headers are worth in this instant?? i think if members can post here after maybe 7-10 similar comparisons we can get some real data on this!!!

3 Z06ZR1

Maybe first get the grafts in SAE not STD the numbers will be less in SAE. 587/604 is too high for any stock dyno. More like 560 range 540's on the A8 Then my tuner's dyno is not a drum spinner it has eddy currents which slow the dyno to creating more load. Hard to compare numbers. My car could read less but may actually have the higher output. Cannot dyno race from old dyno jets to newer Mustang dyno's that read less but tuner can really get a better tune.
Then what are all your mods? Gotta love the 2300 your doing good!
Thus why Weapon X uses a new Mustang as well. lower numbers can be more potent than high ones. Come drive mine and see if you want some.Or bring your car I'll race you we can see!

HessViper

Mike and irun are not the same person. Mike knows Irun however. Irun is either mafia or cia, or both. He is untouchable according to Mike. To put it into perspective, Irun used to outrun the police in HS. When the police dared him to stop using faster cars to make the cop chases fair, he took a running cop car and outran them in that. It was all over the news, as they could not prove it was him, but assumed it was him. He was arrested a week later... however, it never even made it to trial, and this was a very public case as you can imagine, a HS kid outrunning cops in their own car, and the dash cam tape was played on the news. The driver talked in funny voices and wore gloves and ski masks. Irun was 18 at the time.

Here is the crazy part, the cops got their hands on the tape Irun made, and could prove it was him... but instead, It never went to trial, and he did not live in a small town, this was the state capital, a very highly populated area.

He never even had a lawyer, according to the stories, he approached the police chief directly without a lawyer prior to the trial. Somehow, the police dropped the entire case as it was going to cause them more harm than him since he chose to take a running cop car instead of one that was shut off. Misdemeanor instead of a felony, unauthorized use of a motor vehicle instead of grand theft auto. He did this on purpose. He told them, after he got out of jail from the initial arrest, there was going to be a new TV show on Fox where the guy always gets away from the cops, and he will be able to publish the tapes with no double jeopardy. They told him it is illegal to profit off of a crime, he said "great, come arrest me when im on an island sipping daiquiris, selling dvd's and youtube channels, with no extradition treaty. Irun had 20 nights of heavy cop chase on tape and were never caught during those tapes.

(as an interesting side note, he could still release these tapes, but has not, because he has bigger fist to fry he says, and says he has a guilty conscience to teach kids to drive fast, as he does not believe most people have the DNA to learn to drive well) I know, I laugh at all this stuff too, the guy is nuts and funny all at the same time.

The police chief made the call to drop the whole thing before the trial, the state prosecutor, also dropped it all. The people you see in movies who do things and you say "that would never work in real life"... Mike and Irun make hollywood movies look lame. There is huge evidence that Irun is CIA or something beyond. I'm not going to get into it here, but it makes sense. A guy can outrun cops at will and gets bored easily... why wouldn't they recruit him? I have seen pictures of him surrounded by secret service and he is in a straw hat and sandals and shorts, and they are protecting him and taking orders from him. Getting on and off of private jets, hanging out with hot girls, its all a movie.

Some of you are shooting yourselves in the foot by making enemies with these guys, they are on another level. They would be better people to make friends with than to keep countering. They are not stupid. This all took place around 20 years ago. They think this is just another game, and rather than present all the evidence of why they know certain shops and experts are wrong, they play possum and let shops and members here post their misconceptions over and over... and they literally laugh about this stuff.

Irun invented fuel systems with double fuel pumps in the tank for the c5, before Fore existed for corvette fuel systems. These guys solve problems themselves. They don't show off their solutions, they keep them for themselves. I believe they build better cars than most shops out there could. Irun may or may not assist the CIA and SS with vehicle upgrades. im aware I sound batsh** crazy right now, but photos and videos don't lie. Mike's girl is from Russia, and she is very smart. Her nickname is KGB. They should be enemies, but they are like Bonnie and Clyde. She can also drive well. She can shoot very well. And she can explain how the fed reserve works, and speaks 8 languages. Did I mention she is hot and about 6 ft tall?

3 Z06ZR1

QUOTE=RoxyCarter;1598316732]exactly.

especially a catted LT header.

the power comes from less restriction. A catted header vs an open downpipe... It's no contest in my eyes. The catted header loses in every category... and especially heat under the hood.

we live in south florida. The guy arguing lives in a state where it's been below freezing already this week.

I'm tried of people thinking they know all, who keep arguing with the people who drive their cars hard, and those arguing with us provide no scientific logic or data to justify their claims.

hess took the time to explain what Mike knew for years.

if you go back through this forum, and the older threads, you'll see that someone has countered Mike every step of the way on the downpipe vs header debate.

that person says "WRONG" an awful lot to members of our team and other people on this forum, who we, and the real data, both agree with.

I would venture to say if we ran around the forum typing "WRONG!" After every other posts people make, we would be banned.

LT headers radiate more heat than an apples to apples coated catless norcal or AFE. It's a fact.

if any shop wants to do a fair apples to apples comparison and put up the data, we will happily observe and compare notes, and have healthy discussion.

but so far, no one has. We think it might have something to do with the profit margins on the LT headers for shops, vs the more direct sales business model of the norcal and AFE, where the shops lose out on profit.

it gets old being countered by people, who we believe are wrong, but we just keep tollerating it, without writing WRONG (followed by no convincing logic) after every other post they make, as they do to us.[/QUOTE Said
one who makes up stuff to suit the need too funny! WRONG guessing from you again on all counts Open down pipe? You mean open stock manifold? Cannot do that! So you must mean the cat delete is better than the ARH header more totally miss guided info! The team of Mkeroxyhess? I'm sure is convinced!

3 Z06ZR1

Mikeroxyhess has lost it! On topic? What topic?

charlierogers

i am not "that guy" blowing his fool mouth off,,, ohh my car pulled 850whp to impress anyone. i would not care if my baseline read 300rwhp and final was 421rwhp. all that matters is the delta!! my car picked 121 hp. and 123 TQ. i think most people here understand that and the difference between dynojet and mustang dyno"s. if not its a great way for those to learn. how about those dyno graphs before and after? my wife does plan to get some track time at the drag strip and track for fun. her build was to keep temps down for 1/2 mile and 1 mile runs.

Warp Factor

More dyno results on the cat delete pipes:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ete-pipes.html

3Z06ZR1, you still haven't furnished any dyno graphs or info showing the improvement from headers alone, without a tune or any other mods. It looks like others are doing a much better job of supporting their positions.

Poor-sha

This thread has really taken a bizarre turn.

I think I'm going to order a set of Norcal-SS cat delete pipes and simulators for track use and keep the stock x-pipe. I am worried that it's going to just cause the secondary cats to melt but I'm worried about the smell and the sound level without the secondary cats. I've already lost multiple track days due to failed primary cats so I consider it a reliability issue.

Pacembellum

Warp Factor

Very interesting! Aren't you the one who warned me by PM that you would be reporting "personal attack" posts to the moderator, and that they would not be tolerated?

charlierogers

there is a thread on the norcal delete kit with lots of useful info from many people here that have purchased them about smell and noise! would be a good read for you. i can definitely get a good wiff of exhaust when i am stopped at stoplights when the wind is blowing back to front other than that i never smell anything. i kept the stock muffler with the exh flaps/valves closed it is literally as quite as stock even after my build!

3 Z06ZR1

I think you need a solution since the your car is tracked and pressed way harder so problems you see I may not. I think the coated cat delete pipe is good answer since the stock pipe is failing.

Ben@WeaponX

Ehhhh well, I was addressing the OP in the Z06 section, but regardless of the section, GM's warranty policy is what it is, but I can tell you with certainty that 2" LT Kooks headers with Green cats are COMPLETELY fine at WOT as far as AFR and safety and it will help you out on the track. You certainly would NOT have blown out headers that many times with the Green cats.. The question is, will your dealer look past it if it needs to go in? Would they look past our intake tube? That is a discussion with your dealer, some yes, some no. I can tell you a dealership down in FL just installed our X900 package though!

My ZR has been logging with the WB for months now and trust me, I have seen plenty of logs with AFRs high enough to make your A-hole the size of a needle LOL and all of this conjecture about the ZR1 tunes itself is comical at the LEAST LOL... this is not a Ford factory WB Mustang car. The car has a a MAF/VE table and PE table and when you surpass the PE requirements to engage, THERE IS NO WIDEBAND ADJUSTMENT! It references what is in the tables. I have developed ways around this as I have studied it for half a year now. You ZR1 guys who want what works and don't want to risk blowing a $17k engine, talk to me. If you want to be the guinea pig, good luck... but a couple of these, and it's some engine out opposite of fun. Does this look like "self learning" to you?

Ben@WeaponX

Yep... I'm going to respectfully bow out as well. When the proven principles of physics and thermodynamics are ignored, all we're left with is arguments and while I respect everyone's quest for knowledge; I'll will let you guys figure it out for yourselves as it's only keeping me further ahead lol.

I will leave you with this though...

Why would GM put AR Headers on the COPO?
https://americanracingheaders.com/bl...censed-product

How many pro drag racers do you see running stock manifolds?

RoxyCarter

To be fair to 3z...
I am not trying to imply that the stock cast header section material radiates less heat than coated stainless.

however, I don't think he is being fair in recognizing that the majority of the distance is covered by the downpipe.

My point was always focussed on the Downpipe vs the LT headers. The downpipe section will prevent heat transfer to the engine bay and oil cooler.

the top section of the stock header/manifold, that heat in that area is sucked out of the hood and has little to no effect on the oil cooler or the actual engine block.

I assumed he would understand this, but it seems he is trying to get people to focus on the stock exhaust manifold primaries, which are very short and over with quickly.

another thing no one has brought up yet is that there is cast stainless steel, guys. Manifolds can be, and are made out of this by some manufacturers.

while z06 and zr1 probably are not, this may bridge the gap between those who claim they are and those that claim they are not stainless. Perhaps they are stainless cast

I only point this out, as I found the argument between it being cast OR stainless... very... interesting. It can be both

also keep in mind, stock manifolds can be wrapped or heat treatment coated.

never have we said heat treatment does not work, we simply pointed out it can be applied to any of the discussed options to reduce transmitted heat to the engine bay. Thus heat treatment or wraps are a constant that can be removed from the discussion...

bringing us to material and surface area as the 2 remaining variables.

since both the LT headers and the stainless downpipes are stainless... material is also a constant.

the only difference becomes surface area. This variable is tremendously higher percentage on the LT headers.

they radiate more heat.

The other remaining variable is proximity to oil cooler and engine block. Norcals are farther away.

how people are not understanding this and keep bragging about heat treatment as if it can only be applied to LT headers... is beyond me.

I literally feel bad, i feel like there may be genuine learning disabilities present here, and I don't want to be too harsh on anyone.

but assuming everyone can keep up and everyone is smart... then the only other option I can see is some parties may be trying to deceive others to make a buck instead...

it's amazing what people actually think they will successfully trick others into believing makes sense.

bottom line...
norcals win.

how a major shop can't fathom this, is beyond us... especially after we explained it... multiple times.

this discussion should have been over 2 days ago.

the learning curve here is not a great one... and its sad that Hess and I and a couple others, are having to break it all down so that supposed experts can keep up.

RoxyCarter

RoxyCarter

Hess warned you our team plays possum on purpose to let the experts demonstrate and document their intelligence before we finally lay down the royal flush we knew we had the whole time.

your bluffs don't work on us. We are 3 steps ahead of you.

"Bow out" in poker, when rewards are at stake... means "I fold"

we could have explained this all 2 days ago, but it was more fun to watch... just how long the learning curve takes.

RoxyCarter

"Gm has pending lawsuits for overheating on the z06, and can't turn in a time at nuremburg due to too much heat... They then invented the zr1... and even though heat is the enemy, GM decided NOT to use the super cooling long tube headers with cats that we civilians know all about already and are thermodynamic experts on, and instead, foolish GM... they used the super hot lame single downpipe with 40% the total surface area of a LT header instead. Gm likes being sued for overheating and wants the zr1 to fail at nuremburg, and/or 1000 dollar LT headers with super exclusive coatings that can only be applied to stainless steel when its in the shape of a LT header... these super secret exclusive things that cost 1000 dollars, were out of GM's budget on the 145g car for sure! But now I'm here to fix it! I'm very smart!"

... apparent intellectual high level logical thoughts of the ones who know we are WRONG! about downpipes radiating less heat than a LT header, when either is crammed right against a motor and oil cooler in a tight cavity, instead of out in the open air, away from the engine block, like on a top fuel dragster or older style vehicle with a huge engine bay and plenty of room to work with.