Warp Factor

Stainless steel is stainless steel, whether it is cast, stamped, forged, or pulled through a die.
There is no such thing as "pure" or "100%" stainless steel. Stainless steels are combinations of various alloys, with the combination usually chosen on the basis of which is best for the application.

*

3 Z06ZR1

HUH? Let the record show none of that made much sense! Was avoiding COT even mentioned? Over heating for the Z class 7th generation? HAHA!
You need some sleep!

HessViper

Good to know, I do not run octane booster and did not know this.

HessViper

COT certainly was not mentioned by you or anyone preaching that LT headers have no negative tradeoffs, I'll give you that one.

There is more to the puzzle, with the "heating the oil cooler problem".

Even if one uses Catless LT headers, the car is still always calculating for COT when on the stock tune, even AFTER one cheats the o2 sensors with Big Daddy 02 sims. (computer is still protecting for overheating of the cats it THINKS are still there)

COT also runs off algorithms that monitor WOT duration times, and engine oil heat (your LT headers heating the oil cooler cause COT to activate more often in that regard, when compared to catless downpipes which are further away from the oil cooler)

The 02 sensors being cheated does not overcome the internal programmed COT algorithms.

The only way to CURRENTLY disable COT and the internal algorithms is with a tune, and since tuning is not yet available for zr1, COT is a very big deal.

Connecting dots for those interested, this is also why Mike was so intent on cooling oil temps alone down with an aftermarket oil cooler, as it makes a stock car remain tremendously faster with the stock tune, vs a car without a chin mounted oil cooler. Ironically, that exact debate with a vendor got him banned. And we have learned through the grape vine that vendor is now doing exactly what Mike proposed they do, they just have not posted here on the forum about it and their success with it yet, coincidentally enough

As roxy mentioned, COT can subtract horse power far in excess of your CLAIMED 40 hp gains over the stock downpipes.

Thus the net power gain, is actually a net loss, once COT is active. Higher oil temps and WOT activate it.

Sorry to inconvenience you with reality of how all the non-tunable zr1 work, let alone the stock tune z06.

We are curious how much road course track time Ben has on his LT header zr1, and how successful they are at causing their car to keep pace with people like Poorsha or Mike in a zr1 that will not experience COT as often with catless down pipes.

Isn't the goal always to go fast? isn't that the point of buying a zr1 instead of another car? Isn't that the point of spending 145 grand? Isnt it always implied that Poorsha wants to avoid COT as it slows him down?

Yes, COT is very relevant, as its activation makes the cars slow.

But we are confident you and Ben are 3 steps ahead of us here as well in this aspect of the debate, since you have countered us all numerous times that LT headers are "ABSOLUELY" better than catless downpipes for Poorsha's zr1, or anyone who wishes to keep the stock tune on their z06 and still go as fast as possible around a track

This is why we look forward to Poorsha's car with norcals vs Ben's car with LT's, so we can learn where we are missing the boat over here on team clueless. We look forward to being proven wrong, and if we are, we will all apologize immediately for defending perhaps false information. Until then, we have a hunch we have more testing on this than anyone else in this thread, with the exception of Norcal and his rave reviews he has had over the years.

Norcal have their pipes on over 12 different 2019 zr1 cars currently. Yet, I don't see those zr1 customers complaining their car went into limp mode, or as some call it, "turn into a potato"

0NORCAL-SS

I'm not going to go into a battle but I've had customers go from long tube headers upset about under hood temps back to oem manifolds with my cat dekete and a non catted x pipe and they lost 3 to 5 hp at wheels on after dyno.

I've had shops tell customers take my cat delete kit off with x pioe and put headers on and charge them over 3k with install and customers gained 3 to 5 at wheels and then complain hot as heck and oil temps went up.

Also lots of people put up headers numbers with tunes. which people using my cats dont want to tune.

stock z06 I put up dyno guy made 30 more with nothing changed and ive seen headers do 25 to 30 no tune. This is why I didnt put headers on my own car... with how long it takes to install for me not worth it and my car makes 725/726 at 9.5 psi

now I've seen my cat delete kit with x pipe make 45 to 50 with tune just like headers at wheels but 99 percent of guys who do my cat delete kit dont want to tune to keep warranty.

btw I'm a full kooks and arh dealer and sold many sets here just how much headers and x pipe give on a c7 z06 it's not really much more than my cat dekete kit and borla x pipe. C7z manifolds flow great the restriction is the cats and the inlet on oem cat pipes

I'm not in anyway saying my cat delete is is better than headers... but for how much headers cost plus install time it's not worth it to me and hundreds of my customers feel the same that's why the cat deletes sell so well.

if your happy with your headers that's great but if your looking for an easy bolt on mod then my cat delete kit is a great bang for buck option.

Clspht

Norcal.....Sent you a PM....Thanks

Pacembellum

Pacembellum

HessViper

while I am sure the AFE catted downpipe is a great product, I would not see the point in avoiding the stock catted pipe at that point, as the car would be better protected with warranty claims and the convenience of not having to swap the pipes every time the car is taken into service.

HessViper

I second this request, but I would prefer it be addressed at the X pipe location, instead of the downpipe. The reduced diameter of the downpipe is what keeps the engine block and oil cooler... cooler.

Pacembellum

Clspht

Have read numerous comments that downpipe users continue to have to deal with CELs caused by eliminating the cats (even with Big Daddy O2 sims). Have also read that others have no issue...Im ready to go with Norcal on his downpipes but looking for something definitive re the CELs and how to eliminate them...Opinions from users (not haters) would be helpful....

Pacembellum

HessViper

I believe a great product for norcal to introduce would be an X pipe with the sound dampening resonators the entire length of the X pipe on both sides

This would allow a lot of track guys to have the best of both worlds, and still run a catless downpipe.

Maybe even sell a resonator kit where people have to have their local muffler shop chop up the stock X pipe, keep its cats, but add more sound dampening.

HessViper

if it makes you sleep better, know that we are working on something to give more realistic 02 and temp readings back to the computer, so that it does not detect a problem or a missing cat

But being blunt, it is a b**** to solve. But we think it is doable, but we have other things we are working on first.

If a shop like weapon x can beat us to it, we welcome it. We just want it solved, and we will praise whoever does so first.

The cat sims have their limits to how much they can keep the computer fooled.

For instance, while it cheats the 02 readings by having a small cat element in the inlet, the temp is another problem. The car most likely watches the pre and post cat 02 sensor location temps, looking for the downstream one to be cooler in temp, indicating that the cats are still there, cooling things off a bit vs the upstream temps

We believe this MAY be one of the reasons the CEL comes on, the 2 temp readings pre and post are nearly identical once the cat is absent.

If anyone else has any ideas why the CEL is coming on with norcals or LT headers, we are all ears and will do our best to assist with solving the problem to maintain stock tunes and avoid CEL's

C7/Z06 Man

Here was my CEL solution: I bought 4 anti-plug foulers (cheap) of the right thread size at the auto parts store. I screwed two of the four foulers together but had to drill the hole in the top fouler larger so the 02 sensor would screw all the way in (not hit the bottom of the top fouler) and did the same for the other set. No small cat elements, etc. were used. The smaller hole of the bottom anti-plug fouler along with the distance (two chamber design) worked. Never got a dash light ever (for years) on a 2010 LS3 (430 hp version) Grand Sport Corvette which still holds the stock 1/4 mile GS record; and with the catless system & headers just running a hand held DiabloSport canned tune ran 11.32 @125 mph.

HessViper

can you replicate this for the z06/zr1 c7?

I think you would sell many if they work, we would buy from you.

We are just too busy with other things than to mess with it this week, but we would love to test the solution on the zr1. If it works, all credit will be given to you and if you can make money, we encourage it. We don't need anything in return, just want a product that works.

Any elaboration on this method you used is intriguing to us... I assume the temp is less on the later o2 sensor since it is better insulated?

The fact that the car can no longer sniff the exhaust or read the real o2 readings, I'm worried this is a problem (if I am understanding you correctly, and your approach/solution)

We could still use a 90 degree if need be, and it would need to mount up to the norcal pipes, but I assume the threads are all the same to fit the stock 02 sensors.

C7/Z06 Man

For those who do not know. This will be very short.

* Carbon is carbon, iron is iron, gold is gold.
* An alloy is a mixture of two or more ingredients.

Example for this thread: add various amounts of nickel and chrome to steel (which is already an alloy) you come up with the various grades of stainless steel. Stainless loosely means it does not stain because the new ingredients adhere tightly to the surface of the steel which stops oxidation i.e. rusting of the steel. As far as being magnetic depends upon whether the structure of the metal is face center cubic or body center cubic which at different temperatures some metals go from being magnetic (at lower temps) to non-magnetic (at higher temps, the magnet falls off) & vice versa.

Warp Factor

Perhaps, from a blah blah blah "baffle 'em with bullchit" perspective.
Have you not yet realized that most of your assertions in this thread have taken a cogent and serious beat-down? Might you be better off learning, than by being fruitlessly combative?

C7/Z06 Man

This stuff is not new, just making a constructive suggestion. I got it from somewhere (most likely the net) and a 45/90 degree angle maybe necessary for clearance on the ZR1 and the end is open (anti-plug fouler) to do 'some' sniffing.