Stock cats
11-12-2018, 04:44 PM
#141
I was assuming it was an unknown technique, and that there is a genuine problem the norcal thread guys cant solve, ill do some research soon. Thank you for the heads up.
11-12-2018, 05:41 PM
#142
I talked to Mike, he clarified a few things I was ignorant on, long story short, I misunderstood what he was brainstorming to solve... He says what he is working to solve is to limit the temp signal back to the ecu, through limiting the 02's signals so that the car NEVER goes into COT, as he believes IF the car does not send back accurate readings within normal parameters upon vehicle startup, then the car assumes the 02's are going bad or are disabled, and it goes to the algorithms based on oil temp etc.
Mike has not gotten enough data from cars with disabled o2's to examine the patterns in how the COT is activated from the algorithms that monitor the oil temp and WOT durations, etc. But he said his gut is that IF the o2's read correctly during startup and shut down, then limiting their heat signals later, will keep the car out of COT on a stock tune, while at WOT for long distances. The cats would have to be removed of course, or they would melt and clog the pipes up.
He, like you C7/Z06 man, said that keeping the CEL from coming on is solvable currently. Preventing COT on stock tunes while at long WOT is the goal he is after.
Mike has not gotten enough data from cars with disabled o2's to examine the patterns in how the COT is activated from the algorithms that monitor the oil temp and WOT durations, etc. But he said his gut is that IF the o2's read correctly during startup and shut down, then limiting their heat signals later, will keep the car out of COT on a stock tune, while at WOT for long distances. The cats would have to be removed of course, or they would melt and clog the pipes up.
He, like you C7/Z06 man, said that keeping the CEL from coming on is solvable currently. Preventing COT on stock tunes while at long WOT is the goal he is after.
11-12-2018, 10:09 PM
#143
Team Owner
COT certainly was not mentioned by you or anyone preaching that LT headers have no negative tradeoffs, I'll give you that one.
There is more to the puzzle, with the "heating the oil cooler problem".
Even if one uses Catless LT headers, the car is still always calculating for COT when on the stock tune, even AFTER one cheats the o2 sensors with Big Daddy 02 sims. (computer is still protecting for overheating of the cats it THINKS are still there)
COT also runs off algorithms that monitor WOT duration times, and engine oil heat (your LT headers heating the oil cooler cause COT to activate more often in that regard, when compared to catless downpipes which are further away from the oil cooler)
The 02 sensors being cheated does not overcome the internal programmed COT algorithms.
The only way to CURRENTLY disable COT and the internal algorithms is with a tune, and since tuning is not yet available for zr1, COT is a very big deal.
Connecting dots for those interested, this is also why Mike was so intent on cooling oil temps alone down with an aftermarket oil cooler, as it makes a stock car remain tremendously faster with the stock tune, vs a car without a chin mounted oil cooler. Ironically, that exact debate with a vendor got him banned. And we have learned through the grape vine that vendor is now doing exactly what Mike proposed they do, they just have not posted here on the forum about it and their success with it yet, coincidentally enough
As roxy mentioned, COT can subtract horse power far in excess of your CLAIMED 40 hp gains over the stock downpipes.
Thus the net power gain, is actually a net loss, once COT is active. Higher oil temps and WOT activate it.
Sorry to inconvenience you with reality of how all the non-tunable zr1 work, let alone the stock tune z06.
We are curious how much road course track time Ben has on his LT header zr1, and how successful they are at causing their car to keep pace with people like Poorsha or Mike in a zr1 that will not experience COT as often with catless down pipes.
Isn't the goal always to go fast? isn't that the point of buying a zr1 instead of another car? Isn't that the point of spending 145 grand? Isnt it always implied that Poorsha wants to avoid COT as it slows him down?
Yes, COT is very relevant, as its activation makes the cars slow.
But we are confident you and Ben are 3 steps ahead of us here as well in this aspect of the debate, since you have countered us all numerous times that LT headers are "ABSOLUELY" better than catless downpipes for Poorsha's zr1, or anyone who wishes to keep the stock tune on their z06 and still go as fast as possible around a track
This is why we look forward to Poorsha's car with norcals vs Ben's car with LT's, so we can learn where we are missing the boat over here on team clueless. We look forward to being proven wrong, and if we are, we will all apologize immediately for defending perhaps false information. Until then, we have a hunch we have more testing on this than anyone else in this thread, with the exception of Norcal and his rave reviews he has had over the years.
Norcal have their pipes on over 12 different 2019 zr1 cars currently. Yet, I don't see those zr1 customers complaining their car went into limp mode, or as some call it, "turn into a potato"
There is more to the puzzle, with the "heating the oil cooler problem".
Even if one uses Catless LT headers, the car is still always calculating for COT when on the stock tune, even AFTER one cheats the o2 sensors with Big Daddy 02 sims. (computer is still protecting for overheating of the cats it THINKS are still there)
COT also runs off algorithms that monitor WOT duration times, and engine oil heat (your LT headers heating the oil cooler cause COT to activate more often in that regard, when compared to catless downpipes which are further away from the oil cooler)
The 02 sensors being cheated does not overcome the internal programmed COT algorithms.
The only way to CURRENTLY disable COT and the internal algorithms is with a tune, and since tuning is not yet available for zr1, COT is a very big deal.
Connecting dots for those interested, this is also why Mike was so intent on cooling oil temps alone down with an aftermarket oil cooler, as it makes a stock car remain tremendously faster with the stock tune, vs a car without a chin mounted oil cooler. Ironically, that exact debate with a vendor got him banned. And we have learned through the grape vine that vendor is now doing exactly what Mike proposed they do, they just have not posted here on the forum about it and their success with it yet, coincidentally enough
As roxy mentioned, COT can subtract horse power far in excess of your CLAIMED 40 hp gains over the stock downpipes.
Thus the net power gain, is actually a net loss, once COT is active. Higher oil temps and WOT activate it.
Sorry to inconvenience you with reality of how all the non-tunable zr1 work, let alone the stock tune z06.
We are curious how much road course track time Ben has on his LT header zr1, and how successful they are at causing their car to keep pace with people like Poorsha or Mike in a zr1 that will not experience COT as often with catless down pipes.
Isn't the goal always to go fast? isn't that the point of buying a zr1 instead of another car? Isn't that the point of spending 145 grand? Isnt it always implied that Poorsha wants to avoid COT as it slows him down?
Yes, COT is very relevant, as its activation makes the cars slow.
But we are confident you and Ben are 3 steps ahead of us here as well in this aspect of the debate, since you have countered us all numerous times that LT headers are "ABSOLUELY" better than catless downpipes for Poorsha's zr1, or anyone who wishes to keep the stock tune on their z06 and still go as fast as possible around a track
This is why we look forward to Poorsha's car with norcals vs Ben's car with LT's, so we can learn where we are missing the boat over here on team clueless. We look forward to being proven wrong, and if we are, we will all apologize immediately for defending perhaps false information. Until then, we have a hunch we have more testing on this than anyone else in this thread, with the exception of Norcal and his rave reviews he has had over the years.
Norcal have their pipes on over 12 different 2019 zr1 cars currently. Yet, I don't see those zr1 customers complaining their car went into limp mode, or as some call it, "turn into a potato"
Cot doesn't come in to play when your tuned. My car is going to be tuned like everyone else who adds headers.
Then the cat delete? Is 750? just that pipe with no other changes is not a lot is not a lot what it seems we are seeing is results from adding a borla x pipe making no cats at all.
So now it is 750 so another 250 now 1000. Uncoated headers like Stainless works can be bought for like 1500 no cats so you are really not saving much and we all know already the headers win the HP and weight reduction. Ben dyno's this stuff everyday so does a lot of vendors stop saying the cat delete does anything better.
Stock manifold leaves power to header's on the table not many guys do builds like larger blowers , heads and cam with out buying Headers thus the 8 -10 companies that make them and only 2 cat delete. Debating will not change that. Cat delete may add a little over stock but also needs the combo with the aftermarket x -pipe. No cats with smell no thanks. AR header with cats has 40 rwhp and no smell.
No problem with those going that route cat delete no tune. Trying to save warranty but the making stuff up to say the cat delete is better/ I'm going to counter that wrong statement.
How about lets stop and say to each his own?????
Last edited by 3 Z06ZR1; 11-12-2018 at 10:15 PM.
11-12-2018, 10:43 PM
#144
Do you really need me to repeat to you again...
it's currently impossible to tune a zr1.
poorsha was asking for help, Hess and I were helping him...
you start suggesting things that are impossible... and/or only make sense when the impossible is possible.
Lt headers don't make sense for a road course zr1... since it can't be tuned.
COT occurs.
End your pointless typing, for the love of god.
it's currently impossible to tune a zr1.
poorsha was asking for help, Hess and I were helping him...
you start suggesting things that are impossible... and/or only make sense when the impossible is possible.
Lt headers don't make sense for a road course zr1... since it can't be tuned.
COT occurs.
End your pointless typing, for the love of god.
11-13-2018, 02:01 AM
#145
Team Owner
Do you really need me to repeat to you again...
it's currently impossible to tune a zr1.
poorsha was asking for help, Hess and I were helping him...
you start suggesting things that are impossible... and/or only make sense when the impossible is possible.
Lt headers don't make sense for a road course zr1... since it can't be tuned.
COT occurs.
End your pointless typing, for the love of god.
it's currently impossible to tune a zr1.
poorsha was asking for help, Hess and I were helping him...
you start suggesting things that are impossible... and/or only make sense when the impossible is possible.
Lt headers don't make sense for a road course zr1... since it can't be tuned.
COT occurs.
End your pointless typing, for the love of god.
I can assure you BEN see's 0 cot issues with his coated headers on his no tune ZR1 on the road course cause he is miles ahead of MIKE and the WE gang!
I see the "WE" gang still waiting for the lemon law cars GM promised!
Last edited by 3 Z06ZR1; 11-13-2018 at 02:08 AM.
11-13-2018, 06:56 AM
#146
Hess says he won't even respond to you anymore.
you ruin this place.
stock tune cars go into COT on the dyno, and can do so by the end of their FIRST pull. And commonly by their second pull.
ironically, if you search this forum enough, you'll see where Ben is the one who says this... in one of the blower coolant debates.
for you to say cars don't do it on the road course...
we can't put into words how clueless you are.
you are still arguing. They really should ban you.
car goes from 12.5 afr, to 10.8 afr in higher rpm... COT is responsible for this richness and timing pull, probably 90% of the time. (The other 10% is due to other overheat parameters being met)
COT also have a stairstep set of thresholds in the stock tune. It does more and more to hinder the vehicle power as it calculates hotter and hotter cat temps.
do you think maybe Poorsha and Mikes melted downpipes would have COT parameters into stage 3 of its stairsteps? Or do you think GM has stage 3 set even more hot? Maybe it waits until the car is on fire and the engine block is also melting.
do you think anyone on this forum has ever gotten COT to stage 3 on a dyno? Or do you think since 10.8 is the AFR we see it limited to, and nothing worse, that no one has even gotten to stage 2 yet on a dyno?
Thus, do you think anyone on this forum knows the repercussions from the way the afr and timing pull and TB angle limitation at wot...
do you think anyone here ACTUALLY KNOWS what the vehicle does at stage 3 COT?
We don't think anyone does.
Considering stage 1 is pretty bad, can you use your imagination to calculate the stage 3 stock tune hindering commands on timing, TB and afr?
do you understand, with stock downpipe, 1 of the 2 people on this forum, who we know beyond a shadow of a doubt, have gotten a z06/zr1 to stage 3 COT, are in this thread, asking for advice?
His name is Poorsha.
We have not even had a chance to get the discussion that far because you keep interrupting and distracting with arguments about LT headers and cast vs stainless, when stainless can be cast.. and they are on the z0y/zr1 What an informed debate that was.
And the other person who we know has melted pipes and thus been at stage 3 COT is Mike, who you did everything in your power to get him banned.
DO you have any clue how clueless you are on this topic, and how "in the way" your typed words are every time you post in this thread topic?
the thread was moving forward great again, during the couple hours where you were not allowed to post here.
Our team learned some things from other helpful members.
ask polite questions. Stop trying to school us, or snag us or prove us wrong. Be nice and we will be nicer to you. Being nice means stop preaching please or trying to prove you are superior... at least in this thread please. I don't think there is a person on this forum who would not vote you as the weakest link of every member who has posted in this thread on this topic.
if the moderators let us, we will create the poll and let people vote, so that you can finally absorb whether or not you are the problem here. You crate the poll. Put is on there as well. Lets see what people say.
otherwise... chill out man. We are past the header debate. Poorsha and I are getting new downpipes. No one in this thread wants to talk about headers anymore.
you ruin this place.
stock tune cars go into COT on the dyno, and can do so by the end of their FIRST pull. And commonly by their second pull.
ironically, if you search this forum enough, you'll see where Ben is the one who says this... in one of the blower coolant debates.
for you to say cars don't do it on the road course...
we can't put into words how clueless you are.
you are still arguing. They really should ban you.
car goes from 12.5 afr, to 10.8 afr in higher rpm... COT is responsible for this richness and timing pull, probably 90% of the time. (The other 10% is due to other overheat parameters being met)
COT also have a stairstep set of thresholds in the stock tune. It does more and more to hinder the vehicle power as it calculates hotter and hotter cat temps.
do you think maybe Poorsha and Mikes melted downpipes would have COT parameters into stage 3 of its stairsteps? Or do you think GM has stage 3 set even more hot? Maybe it waits until the car is on fire and the engine block is also melting.
do you think anyone on this forum has ever gotten COT to stage 3 on a dyno? Or do you think since 10.8 is the AFR we see it limited to, and nothing worse, that no one has even gotten to stage 2 yet on a dyno?
Thus, do you think anyone on this forum knows the repercussions from the way the afr and timing pull and TB angle limitation at wot...
do you think anyone here ACTUALLY KNOWS what the vehicle does at stage 3 COT?
We don't think anyone does.
Considering stage 1 is pretty bad, can you use your imagination to calculate the stage 3 stock tune hindering commands on timing, TB and afr?
do you understand, with stock downpipe, 1 of the 2 people on this forum, who we know beyond a shadow of a doubt, have gotten a z06/zr1 to stage 3 COT, are in this thread, asking for advice?
His name is Poorsha.
We have not even had a chance to get the discussion that far because you keep interrupting and distracting with arguments about LT headers and cast vs stainless, when stainless can be cast.. and they are on the z0y/zr1 What an informed debate that was.
And the other person who we know has melted pipes and thus been at stage 3 COT is Mike, who you did everything in your power to get him banned.
DO you have any clue how clueless you are on this topic, and how "in the way" your typed words are every time you post in this thread topic?
the thread was moving forward great again, during the couple hours where you were not allowed to post here.
Our team learned some things from other helpful members.
ask polite questions. Stop trying to school us, or snag us or prove us wrong. Be nice and we will be nicer to you. Being nice means stop preaching please or trying to prove you are superior... at least in this thread please. I don't think there is a person on this forum who would not vote you as the weakest link of every member who has posted in this thread on this topic.
if the moderators let us, we will create the poll and let people vote, so that you can finally absorb whether or not you are the problem here. You crate the poll. Put is on there as well. Lets see what people say.
otherwise... chill out man. We are past the header debate. Poorsha and I are getting new downpipes. No one in this thread wants to talk about headers anymore.
Last edited by RoxyCarter; 11-13-2018 at 07:55 AM.
11-13-2018, 09:05 AM
#147
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Oct 2005
Location: Metro Detroit Michigan
Posts: 7,075
Received 1,816 Likes
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If things may be posted in an inappropriate section, isn't it the moderators who make that decision, and take care of it?
Last edited by Warp Factor; 11-13-2018 at 09:10 AM.
11-13-2018, 09:24 AM
#148
like roxy said, to say a car does not produce enough exhaust heat to activate COT, in a zr1 OR z06, on a roadcourse car, when people are melting downpipes, when we are this far into the discussion... that statement takes the Cake, first place as the worst one yet.
How much higher temp does 3z06zr1 believe the car needs to see until the COT activates?
Bring us a zr1 with catted LT headers, I promise between Poorsha and mike, we will melt them. They probably can do it on catless ones as well.
Mike will go 180mph, pulsating between wot and letting off the throttle, for 30 miles and it will be game over. That's how he melted his stock z06 pipes. He could probably do it in 15 miles with the zr1 since it produces more heat and breathes fire out the back of the exhaust, STOCK.
I agree with Roxy, a novice car enthusiast could have picked up more info in the last 3 days than 3z has from this discussion. The points he is still arguing are in left field. His slow learning curve does ruin this place when paired with his desire to argue with everyone about everything, which everyone else can conclude makes sense before they jump in and argue, and they do so by applying basic common sense.
3Z, I would be curious to know if Ben is happy that you keep associating yourself with he and his ZR1, and making claims of what it can and can't do.
If Ben has the zr1 tricked out of ever going into COT mode, and if he is willing to discuss it here, then we would love to listen and learn how he did it.
But I am warning in advance, I am going to be skeptical because my first question will be "who drove it as hard as Poorsha and Mike do? How do you KNOW you can keep it out of COT for their driving styles?"
This was the whole reason we suggested to get Ben's header zr1 on the track with Poorsha driving, and data log what the car is doing in the COT thresholds and when, in an apples to apples comparison to a catless downpipe car.
We are eager to learn from real data. We do not want to hear 3z06zr1 talk about this anymore. We may as well ask random strangers off the street.
How much higher temp does 3z06zr1 believe the car needs to see until the COT activates?
Bring us a zr1 with catted LT headers, I promise between Poorsha and mike, we will melt them. They probably can do it on catless ones as well.
Mike will go 180mph, pulsating between wot and letting off the throttle, for 30 miles and it will be game over. That's how he melted his stock z06 pipes. He could probably do it in 15 miles with the zr1 since it produces more heat and breathes fire out the back of the exhaust, STOCK.
I agree with Roxy, a novice car enthusiast could have picked up more info in the last 3 days than 3z has from this discussion. The points he is still arguing are in left field. His slow learning curve does ruin this place when paired with his desire to argue with everyone about everything, which everyone else can conclude makes sense before they jump in and argue, and they do so by applying basic common sense.
3Z, I would be curious to know if Ben is happy that you keep associating yourself with he and his ZR1, and making claims of what it can and can't do.
If Ben has the zr1 tricked out of ever going into COT mode, and if he is willing to discuss it here, then we would love to listen and learn how he did it.
But I am warning in advance, I am going to be skeptical because my first question will be "who drove it as hard as Poorsha and Mike do? How do you KNOW you can keep it out of COT for their driving styles?"
This was the whole reason we suggested to get Ben's header zr1 on the track with Poorsha driving, and data log what the car is doing in the COT thresholds and when, in an apples to apples comparison to a catless downpipe car.
We are eager to learn from real data. We do not want to hear 3z06zr1 talk about this anymore. We may as well ask random strangers off the street.
Last edited by HessViper; 11-13-2018 at 10:07 AM.
11-13-2018, 10:57 AM
#149
Team Owner
Looking to do some upgrades soon. Currently I have an x pipe and axle back, but now I want to start modding for more power. I'm leaning towards the Magnuson 2300, but I don't want to get too deep into it like doing headers, meth, and what not. Ideally I would like to strap the 2300 on, get it tuned, and make a solid 650-700 whp and call it a day. I have also been thinking about doing a lower pulley and intake, as I think that would get me around the 650 mark. I have spoke to a few shops and some say you have to upgrade the headers because there is a high risk of melting the cats when you increase boost. I don't buy that. I know there are tons of people on here making more power with more boost and haven't touched the manifolds/cats. So what is the general consensus? Can you raise boost and make good power without doing headers as well?
I 'm on my 5th Supecharged kit. 3 A&A and 2 2300 kits. The one car I did a blower with no headers or intake it by far had the most issues and the least power.
It is a combo of mods to balance the set up. You add the bigger blower you need to get more air in and more air out. With the AFE/ Halltech , larger 95 tb and headers. 700 rwhp mark no meth just pumo premium
you have cats no stink priceless! Then with a good tune. the rest of the talk and fluff about cot so forth is no concern once you have your mods and tune installed. The car runs and drives like stock.
You have nothing but a much stronger faster car that is more efficient gettingequal or evn a little better MPG.
11-13-2018, 11:10 AM
#150
Racer
Member Since: Sep 2016
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 292
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WOW WTF.... How many times does it have to be said before you'll listen..... Most of us interested in the downpipes are interested because WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO TUNE!
You are not helping anyone with your BS....
You are not helping anyone with your BS....
11-13-2018, 11:15 AM
#151
I agree with zr1 for the z06, and his advice above for a car where the owner wishes to tune the vehicle. I also agree a slower spinning blower creates less heat, which is beneficial in many aspects of power making on any vehicle.
I would like to point out that the zr1 manifolds are the same style as the z06. I would also like to point out the norcal or AFE pipe bolt directly to a zr1, inner diameters the same, and its zr1 owners have seen good power gains and lower oil temps.
I mention these things, because if the downpipe can handle the zr1 airflow of 750hp 2650 blower, then it can also handle an upgraded z06 with a smaller 2300 blower.
Stock c5 and c6, naturally aspirated z06 had more restrictive exhaust and needed headers, 3z is correct about those generation z06 and probably base c7's, but these new c7 generation Z's are capable of flowing plenty of air via their exhaust diameters, the only restriction is the CAT.
Removing the cat is the lions share of the power pickup. Whether it is a catless header or downpipe, the main difference is going to be heat radiation in the engine bay, which affects engine oil and coolant temps, and COT on non tuned cars.
..Which is why we like downpipes.
3z likes headers. I think we have all beaten our drums long enough.
We would like to get into uncharted discussions and advance the thread further and keep it interesting again.
Topics like tricking the COT on stock tunes, is the unturned stone that this forum has not covered well yet, in my opinion. I have seen no vendor yet claim they can disable COT from occurring without turning the vehicle.
Since tuning is out of the question for some (due to preference or due to owning a zr1), I would like to take the discussion down this road of COT prevention, and any other useful unturned stone topic we have not covered yet.
If the OP would like us to create a new thread, for discussing how to cheat the COT from activating, I will create a new one.
I see no reason why I would not be a great thread to continue the discussion here, but it is the OP's thread
I would like to point out that the zr1 manifolds are the same style as the z06. I would also like to point out the norcal or AFE pipe bolt directly to a zr1, inner diameters the same, and its zr1 owners have seen good power gains and lower oil temps.
I mention these things, because if the downpipe can handle the zr1 airflow of 750hp 2650 blower, then it can also handle an upgraded z06 with a smaller 2300 blower.
Stock c5 and c6, naturally aspirated z06 had more restrictive exhaust and needed headers, 3z is correct about those generation z06 and probably base c7's, but these new c7 generation Z's are capable of flowing plenty of air via their exhaust diameters, the only restriction is the CAT.
Removing the cat is the lions share of the power pickup. Whether it is a catless header or downpipe, the main difference is going to be heat radiation in the engine bay, which affects engine oil and coolant temps, and COT on non tuned cars.
..Which is why we like downpipes.
3z likes headers. I think we have all beaten our drums long enough.
We would like to get into uncharted discussions and advance the thread further and keep it interesting again.
Topics like tricking the COT on stock tunes, is the unturned stone that this forum has not covered well yet, in my opinion. I have seen no vendor yet claim they can disable COT from occurring without turning the vehicle.
Since tuning is out of the question for some (due to preference or due to owning a zr1), I would like to take the discussion down this road of COT prevention, and any other useful unturned stone topic we have not covered yet.
If the OP would like us to create a new thread, for discussing how to cheat the COT from activating, I will create a new one.
I see no reason why I would not be a great thread to continue the discussion here, but it is the OP's thread
Last edited by HessViper; 11-13-2018 at 11:25 AM.
11-13-2018, 11:22 AM
#152
Team Owner
Some people do. If you don't care about these things, why are you involved in discussions about them?
I don't recall him "making stuff up". The cat delete may have advantages in terms of less underhood heat, lower price, and possibly easier warranty retention than headers.
Both the ZR1 and Z06 have been discussed in this thread, and the info may be applicable to both. What is it you're objecting to?
If things may be posted in an inappropriate section, isn't it the moderators who make that decision, and take care of it?
I don't recall him "making stuff up". The cat delete may have advantages in terms of less underhood heat, lower price, and possibly easier warranty retention than headers.
Both the ZR1 and Z06 have been discussed in this thread, and the info may be applicable to both. What is it you're objecting to?
If things may be posted in an inappropriate section, isn't it the moderators who make that decision, and take care of it?
Cat delete cannot have less underhood heat. Reason the two cast/steel manifolds which heat up and cause more underhood heat much more than the coated tubes which the coating keeps helps the heat in the primary tubes which then pass the hot gases quickly out
The stock manifold bottles up the hot gases and heat air in. The stock manifold cannot pass the heat out has a poor design trying to push the gases out then it this constriction of gases at the tight bend leaving the manifold unable to pass the gases quickly. You remove all that replace with coated tubes that pass the heated air out flowing out quickly with smooth bends to a collector. . The headers actually draw hot gases out by scavenging the gases out.
We know this by the much less backpressure with the headers than stock manifolds.
Last edited by 3 Z06ZR1; 11-13-2018 at 11:28 AM.
11-13-2018, 11:30 AM
#153
If we start a new thread, and let 3z have his way with this one, can we request that 3z is not allowed to enter the new one please?
Not trying to be mean, just being serious, moderators, we cannot progress the discussion when he is in left field taking our minds the wrong way. He causes conflict because, we believe, science theory , and real world evidence, show he is wrong.
Last edited by HessViper; 11-13-2018 at 11:32 AM.
11-13-2018, 11:34 AM
#154
Team Owner
WOW WTF read more no problem here with guys adding the cat delete w/ no tune GREAT! . But the advise it is better for the OP and his 2300 install to run cat delete over headers is fool hardy!
So is the argument that headers are inferior to the cat delete. Neither are you helping the thread with yours. Move on you don't like the thread.
11-13-2018, 11:40 AM
#155
Team Owner
he
Listen to you! You attack me all the time call names even threatened to send the boys to get NICd and I! You get mad when someone calls your wrong wild claims !
You have no facts MIKE!
Then tren your crazy of the wall posts about the CIA ! your gone buddy!
Besides you are banned here your posting here now on other names! Just spewing more of your untested wild theory's I do and test every thing I run. I bought 20k from the vendors this year I pay for this place you buy nothing and pump bad advice
So wrong. I genuinely think it is beyond his ability to fathom, and im not trying to be mean, just calling it what it is.
If we start a new thread, and let 3z have his way with this one, can we request that 3z is not allowed to enter the new one please?
Not trying to be mean, just being serious, moderators, we cannot progress the discussion when he is in left field taking our minds the wrong way. He causes conflict because, we believe, science theory , and real world evidence, show he is wrong.
If we start a new thread, and let 3z have his way with this one, can we request that 3z is not allowed to enter the new one please?
Not trying to be mean, just being serious, moderators, we cannot progress the discussion when he is in left field taking our minds the wrong way. He causes conflict because, we believe, science theory , and real world evidence, show he is wrong.
You have no facts MIKE!
Then tren your crazy of the wall posts about the CIA ! your gone buddy!
Besides you are banned here your posting here now on other names! Just spewing more of your untested wild theory's I do and test every thing I run. I bought 20k from the vendors this year I pay for this place you buy nothing and pump bad advice
Last edited by 3 Z06ZR1; 11-13-2018 at 11:43 AM.
11-13-2018, 12:11 PM
#156
we are over here. OP, or anyone else, if you want to talk to us come over here, I know I will be staying away from this thread due to the presence of certain others
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1598328507
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1598328507
11-13-2018, 04:02 PM
#157
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Oct 2005
Location: Metro Detroit Michigan
Posts: 7,075
Received 1,816 Likes
on
1,084 Posts
Is Ben the most knowledgeable out there? I don't know yet. I'd be willing to take my car anywhere in the US to get the best job done.
I have actually measured backpressure with various headers, turbo systems, and muffler configurations on various sorts of powerplants.
How 'bout you?
Last edited by Warp Factor; 11-13-2018 at 04:20 PM.
11-13-2018, 04:16 PM
#158
Former Vendor
https://afepower.com/afe-power-48-34...pipes#overview
so this could be a solution for us folks that don’t want to be crazy loud. Hope they stand behind the product if someone like Sean blows these cats out.
so this could be a solution for us folks that don’t want to be crazy loud. Hope they stand behind the product if someone like Sean blows these cats out.
Last edited by NORCAL-SS; 11-13-2018 at 04:17 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Ben@WeaponX (11-13-2018)
11-13-2018, 06:20 PM
#159
heres a little food for thought...…….. the newer zl1 camaros have the same motors as the zo6 {lt4} I think we all can agree on that LOL. well gm thought it was wise to install factory stainless tube headers. albeit not as good as a full length aftermarket header its still a tube header. I have been under and seen stock and full length headers on a few zl1s. there is definitely more room in the camaros vs zo6. I wonder why the gm engineers decided to put those big heat producing cast manifolds on the zo6 when they clearly had a option to use stainless tube like the zl1???? I bet the r/d on the zo6 started out with tube exh manifolds, that would make sense as they are lighter and we know the were trying to keep this car as lite as possible?? I am guessing during r/d they were producing too much heat and ended up with the cast manifold to capture more heat into the exhaust system.
11-13-2018, 07:13 PM
#160
Safety Car
Member Since: Jan 2012
Location: Cin City
Posts: 4,885
Received 481 Likes
on
317 Posts
St. Jude Donor '14
Ben appears to be very knowledgeable. One of my homes is in Cincinnati, so it might be convenient to do businesses with him at some point.
Is Ben the most knowledgeable out there? I don't know yet. I'd be willing to take my car anywhere in the US to get the best job done.
Is Ben the most knowledgeable out there? I don't know yet. I'd be willing to take my car anywhere in the US to get the best job done.
Did I mention the world's first LT5 cam swap is going down with my ZR1000 package?!
Stage 1 cam kit, Ported heads, Port Matched Blower, and even MORE COW BELL!!!