Thew 228 code at 158 MPH
11-18-2018, 07:43 PM
#61
So after reading this entire thread, I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. GM has produced this car with several safety features within their tune that creates a "flaw" with the vehicle. At high speeds under heavy load the car is tuned to run extremely rich to protect the cats and engine. The "flaw" which typically happens at lower altitudes when the temperatures are fairly low due to the dense air entering the engine causes the car to go into limp mode, is that correct? If that is correct then a tune can technically correct the issue (understanding that it would void the factory warranty), correct? As I understand it the car under those conditions (excluding the altitude and temperature) commands the car to run very rich which is unnecessary and will typically not go into limp mode, however, when it does what the tune tells it to do the low pressure fuel pump can't keep up thus throwing codes and putting there car in limp mode, is that right?
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Mikec7z (11-18-2018)
11-18-2018, 08:27 PM
#62
There is always room for improvements to cars. My ZO6 has been trouble free. It can get me to 180mph when needed. GM knows how to deliver fuel and they know how to design an inter cooler circuit. In my opinion they built the exact car they wanted to. And they’re still improving.
11-18-2018, 08:30 PM
#63
So after reading this entire thread, I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. GM has produced this car with several safety features within their tune that creates a "flaw" with the vehicle. At high speeds under heavy load the car is tuned to run extremely rich to protect the cats and engine. The "flaw" which typically happens at lower altitudes when the temperatures are fairly low due to the dense air entering the engine causes the car to go into limp mode, is that correct? If that is correct then a tune can technically correct the issue (understanding that it would void the factory warranty), correct? As I understand it the car under those conditions (excluding the altitude and temperature) commands the car to run very rich which is unnecessary and will typically not go into limp mode, however, when it does what the tune tells it to do the low pressure fuel pump can't keep up thus throwing codes and putting there car in limp mode, is that right?
A custom tune will also remove the "power limit" program, so to speak, where the car runs more and more rich, as it sees more and more o2 than it knows it should be seeing to be in the ballpark of the factory spec 650 650 numbers.
A custom tune, even with keeping COT ON, but tuning the car to not run rich at higher o2 content SHOULD solve the problem for stock blowers.
The person who started the thread obviously has the 2300, so while the car gained fueling room to work with from the custom tune... that extra blower then closed that gap and put the in tank fuel pump back to its limit, even with the custom Callaway tune.
The limp mode does not hurt the car BTW. And it can be removed by starting and stopping the ignition on and off 3 or more times.
However, if you are a driver who does 150mph while in a curve, then this can be very dangerous for obvious reasons, going into limp mode when you were just at WOT a nano second before, and in a slight drift at over 1 lateral G, etc.... such a situation can cause even the most skilled drivers to lose it, and potentially kill them.
however, to remove COT and turn it off in the custom tune, is to also make the decision to first remove the cats.
Not something most people are fond of doing. Kill the Environment and high exhaust sound levels and smell like gasoline in the cabin.
Not something most people are fond of doing. Kill the Environment and high exhaust sound levels and smell like gasoline in the cabin.
Last edited by Mikec7z; 11-19-2018 at 11:16 AM. Reason: Merged Posts
11-18-2018, 09:21 PM
#64
Team Owner
Really shocking how easy the headers install goes it is easy. No lifting of the engine with ARH. They slide right in. I can change the x-pipe in 15 minutes with a handy little impact.
Nobody making big power without headers for good reason.
11-19-2018, 04:56 AM
#65
your LT headers are the ones that still have cats on them Robert. Therefore, if Poorsha or I drove your car as he and I drive cars every time we get in them, and COT was disabled, your cats would be melted in no time.
So go back and re read my above post and see if it computes this time, instead of seizing an opportunity to brag about things you've already bragged about a literal thousand other times on this forum.
While "driving fast" may be a rare occurrence for you, the rest of us have COT activate, literally every time we are in our cars. So "swapping between catless and catted headers, moment to moment" does not seem like a viable reality for any of us.
So go back and re read my above post and see if it computes this time, instead of seizing an opportunity to brag about things you've already bragged about a literal thousand other times on this forum.
While "driving fast" may be a rare occurrence for you, the rest of us have COT activate, literally every time we are in our cars. So "swapping between catless and catted headers, moment to moment" does not seem like a viable reality for any of us.
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charlierogers (11-19-2018)
11-19-2018, 06:46 AM
#66
Heel & Toe
its because it was cold the night you were running it hard. PM me for details, I can do it on command to cars.
The reflash higgs mentions is for p0106. Not p228c. Nor would you want that flash, as it would kill your 757 flash, and put your car back to a stock z06 tune... which would never work.
p228c is that the low side fuel pump cant keep up with the high side pump. no flash can fix this. It means your pump is running out of capacity to keep up.
Chevy did not fix this until 2019 by putting a larger pump in the z06, as the people who are capable of causing the car to hit this code, are so few and far between, myself and another guy, literally taught GM we can do this to cars on command. They argued, then they realized we were right. No public announcement yet tho... it would require all cars to have their fuel pumps replaced... not something GM wants to do, so they handle people capable of hitting the code on a case by case basis. The larger fuel pump is not compatible with the old setups and software either it seems, so it is a bigger job than most understand.
Again, The tune wont solve the problem, the fuel pump is inadequate in the drivers tank when proper environmental situations exist. The fact that you have a bigger blower, aggravates the situation even further. How long have you owned the vehicle? Did you buy it brand new?
You are only at 217 ft of elevation in your town in NY, that is also part of the equation, along with the cold weather.
I'm frankly mind blown that more people on this forum cant get their cars to hit this code.
ps, you also probably had p0089 throw as well, but it is not the limp mode code, only p228c puts you into limp. P0089 just turns on your CEL.
The reflash higgs mentions is for p0106. Not p228c. Nor would you want that flash, as it would kill your 757 flash, and put your car back to a stock z06 tune... which would never work.
p228c is that the low side fuel pump cant keep up with the high side pump. no flash can fix this. It means your pump is running out of capacity to keep up.
Chevy did not fix this until 2019 by putting a larger pump in the z06, as the people who are capable of causing the car to hit this code, are so few and far between, myself and another guy, literally taught GM we can do this to cars on command. They argued, then they realized we were right. No public announcement yet tho... it would require all cars to have their fuel pumps replaced... not something GM wants to do, so they handle people capable of hitting the code on a case by case basis. The larger fuel pump is not compatible with the old setups and software either it seems, so it is a bigger job than most understand.
Again, The tune wont solve the problem, the fuel pump is inadequate in the drivers tank when proper environmental situations exist. The fact that you have a bigger blower, aggravates the situation even further. How long have you owned the vehicle? Did you buy it brand new?
You are only at 217 ft of elevation in your town in NY, that is also part of the equation, along with the cold weather.
I'm frankly mind blown that more people on this forum cant get their cars to hit this code.
ps, you also probably had p0089 throw as well, but it is not the limp mode code, only p228c puts you into limp. P0089 just turns on your CEL.
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Mikec7z (11-19-2018)
11-19-2018, 03:32 PM
#67
Team Owner
you seem to be misunderstanding what the definition of a lemon is. A few posts up, you mock the fact that there are only a "few" of us with this problem.
A lemon is not when EVERY car has the problem. Its when a single 1 or few do have it... they are lemons.
I'm saying, while GM may know my car is not actually a lemon, for them to admit ALL cars have the same problem, is for them to plead guilty in class action if they make such a claim.
Thus... they will pretend it is only my car with the problem, and also our friends who have documented their failures are rare lemons, and GM will breathe a sigh of relief when people as intelligent as yourself, don't come after them for anything as you pretend your car does not have the same problem
You still don't get it, we COULD prove with video that what we are saying is true and show how we can do this with any z06... but what is the point?
It gains me personally, absolutely nothing.
So i let people like you convince everyone their cars are perfect, and instead, i lemon mine. I win, and you are the pied piper leading those foolish enough to believe you are leading them in the right direction... instead, you lead them to the most losing possible scenario.
And in the end, everyone is going to hate you for it. But you aren't smart enough to realize that yet. You dont realize, in the end, im the hero because i warned people their cars have a problem, and you delayed people from caring, to where they the individual cant lemon their car anymore as their opportunity expires... and you lead them to the class action law suit... which yields you all nothing... except cars that depreciate beyond your wildest dreams when the public finds out, compounded with the new c8 reveal and anticipated release.
A lemon is not when EVERY car has the problem. Its when a single 1 or few do have it... they are lemons.
I'm saying, while GM may know my car is not actually a lemon, for them to admit ALL cars have the same problem, is for them to plead guilty in class action if they make such a claim.
Thus... they will pretend it is only my car with the problem, and also our friends who have documented their failures are rare lemons, and GM will breathe a sigh of relief when people as intelligent as yourself, don't come after them for anything as you pretend your car does not have the same problem
You still don't get it, we COULD prove with video that what we are saying is true and show how we can do this with any z06... but what is the point?
It gains me personally, absolutely nothing.
So i let people like you convince everyone their cars are perfect, and instead, i lemon mine. I win, and you are the pied piper leading those foolish enough to believe you are leading them in the right direction... instead, you lead them to the most losing possible scenario.
And in the end, everyone is going to hate you for it. But you aren't smart enough to realize that yet. You dont realize, in the end, im the hero because i warned people their cars have a problem, and you delayed people from caring, to where they the individual cant lemon their car anymore as their opportunity expires... and you lead them to the class action law suit... which yields you all nothing... except cars that depreciate beyond your wildest dreams when the public finds out, compounded with the new c8 reveal and anticipated release.
The other 99.9 percent of the rest of the time you have no issue. So you work to get the limp mode so you can build a case for lemon replacement. Plus you state you can do it on command so your a HERO!
AND an EXPERT!
Hope I got those ridiculous details correct. But I'm the pide piper and people are going HATE to me?
So why would the average owner even care as they never would drive in those conditions. They don't try to play batman and have clones log in with stories of speedy racer driving 140 miles an hour through traffic for a hour at a time bragging about how smart they are.
PLUS most vendors never do a thing right either. You exposed GM as a company made up of complete dumbells Gosh maybe I did want to get your autograph!
I think the tuned car has no issue with the fuel pump.
Fact is GM ADDED for 2019 the new ZR1 fuel pump because the lt5 has 755. Not for your reasons you make up that is for sure.
11-19-2018, 03:38 PM
#68
the whole state of florida is at sea level essentially. Its kind of a big place.
If it gets cold out, keep in mind i have had failures at 50 degrees...
If it gets cold out, and im in a sweeping curve at speed, my car can cut power, cause me to lose control, and literally kill me.
In fact, it happened once while i was in a curve, and i think 9 out of 10 people on this forum would have lost control of the car had it happened to them on the curve i was on.
So guess what Bob... i could care less what your opinion or understanding of the situation is. I'll lemon my car, from driving fast, and you'll still be here at that time, typing, about how you drive fast, but we all know better, because if you ever broke 150mph in your car anytime after the beginning of this month, your car would be in limp mode.
Thats how we all know you are slow, and are in no danger of this problem affecting you like it does the OP and I.
In other words, this thread does not concern you, since you aren't in the big boy club, you just type about being in the big boy club. Move along.
"2300 club" thread is calling your name.
If it gets cold out, keep in mind i have had failures at 50 degrees...
If it gets cold out, and im in a sweeping curve at speed, my car can cut power, cause me to lose control, and literally kill me.
In fact, it happened once while i was in a curve, and i think 9 out of 10 people on this forum would have lost control of the car had it happened to them on the curve i was on.
So guess what Bob... i could care less what your opinion or understanding of the situation is. I'll lemon my car, from driving fast, and you'll still be here at that time, typing, about how you drive fast, but we all know better, because if you ever broke 150mph in your car anytime after the beginning of this month, your car would be in limp mode.
Thats how we all know you are slow, and are in no danger of this problem affecting you like it does the OP and I.
In other words, this thread does not concern you, since you aren't in the big boy club, you just type about being in the big boy club. Move along.
"2300 club" thread is calling your name.
11-19-2018, 03:42 PM
#69
notice how i don't talk in the 2300 club like I'm an expert?
I believe you have that base covered.
It would be nice if you realized I have this base covered.
I believe you have that base covered.
It would be nice if you realized I have this base covered.
11-19-2018, 04:05 PM
#70
Team Owner
Interesting. Gm has a conundrum. The complexity of the software , all the sensors and fuel system is too much.
as you have seen from my other threads I am a little disappointed with the performance of the car and poke fun at it. And am considering a magnuson 2300 blower. This would potentially make the problem more apparent and really would not solve much. This is probably why 3z06zr1 wants to move out of his 2015 and into a 2019.
as you have seen from my other threads I am a little disappointed with the performance of the car and poke fun at it. And am considering a magnuson 2300 blower. This would potentially make the problem more apparent and really would not solve much. This is probably why 3z06zr1 wants to move out of his 2015 and into a 2019.
at 40 degrees Don't think I would try it as most would not would you?
Only place I can think of would be a highway with cars and that is not smart. The police will halt this sooner or later. One time here is jail impound the car and 2k fine and no permit for 6 months. Plus your insurance goes through the roof.
Last edited by 3 Z06ZR1; 11-19-2018 at 04:07 PM.
11-19-2018, 04:11 PM
#71
Team Owner
the whole state of florida is at sea level essentially. Its kind of a big place.
If it gets cold out, keep in mind i have had failures at 50 degrees...
If it gets cold out, and im in a sweeping curve at speed, my car can cut power, cause me to lose control, and literally kill me.
In fact, it happened once while i was in a curve, and i think 9 out of 10 people on this forum would have lost control of the car had it happened to them on the curve i was on.
So guess what Bob... i could care less what your opinion or understanding of the situation is. I'll lemon my car, from driving fast, and you'll still be here at that time, typing, about how you drive fast, but we all know better, because if you ever broke 150mph in your car anytime after the beginning of this month, your car would be in limp mode.
Thats how we all know you are slow, and are in no danger of this problem affecting you like it does the OP and I.
In other words, this thread does not concern you, since you aren't in the big boy club, you just type about being in the big boy club. Move along.
"2300 club" thread is calling your name.
If it gets cold out, keep in mind i have had failures at 50 degrees...
If it gets cold out, and im in a sweeping curve at speed, my car can cut power, cause me to lose control, and literally kill me.
In fact, it happened once while i was in a curve, and i think 9 out of 10 people on this forum would have lost control of the car had it happened to them on the curve i was on.
So guess what Bob... i could care less what your opinion or understanding of the situation is. I'll lemon my car, from driving fast, and you'll still be here at that time, typing, about how you drive fast, but we all know better, because if you ever broke 150mph in your car anytime after the beginning of this month, your car would be in limp mode.
Thats how we all know you are slow, and are in no danger of this problem affecting you like it does the OP and I.
In other words, this thread does not concern you, since you aren't in the big boy club, you just type about being in the big boy club. Move along.
"2300 club" thread is calling your name.
Your lose every debate so you go back to being insulting! The stock 2015 pump makes 700 rwhp in any weather.
Last edited by 3 Z06ZR1; 11-19-2018 at 04:16 PM.
11-19-2018, 04:16 PM
#72
ive gone over 200mph when it is 20 degrees outside Bob.
Im well aware you would not try to get within 50mph of that, because then you would be on the other side of the line in this debate... especially someone as scared as you are of speed... having your throttle cut unexpectedly at 158mph, whether in a straight line or in a curve... is not safe, especially if the driver is easily spooked and panics.
I know odds of you ever pulling a curve at 1 lateral G at any speed over 100mph, are are about as good of odds as you minding your own business, and commenting only in threads that pertain to you and your driving style, while on this forum.
Im well aware you would not try to get within 50mph of that, because then you would be on the other side of the line in this debate... especially someone as scared as you are of speed... having your throttle cut unexpectedly at 158mph, whether in a straight line or in a curve... is not safe, especially if the driver is easily spooked and panics.
I know odds of you ever pulling a curve at 1 lateral G at any speed over 100mph, are are about as good of odds as you minding your own business, and commenting only in threads that pertain to you and your driving style, while on this forum.
11-19-2018, 04:18 PM
#73
Team Owner
ive gone over 200mph when it is 20 degrees outside Bob.
Im well aware you would not try to get within 50mph of that, because then you would be on the other side of the line in this debate... especially someone as scared as you are of speed... having your throttle cut unexpectedly at 158mph, whether in a straight line or in a curve... is not safe, especially if the driver is easily spooked and panics.
I know odds of you ever pulling a curve at 1 lateral G at any speed over 100mph, are are about as good of odds as you minding your own business, and commenting only in threads that pertain to you and your driving style, while on this forum.
Im well aware you would not try to get within 50mph of that, because then you would be on the other side of the line in this debate... especially someone as scared as you are of speed... having your throttle cut unexpectedly at 158mph, whether in a straight line or in a curve... is not safe, especially if the driver is easily spooked and panics.
I know odds of you ever pulling a curve at 1 lateral G at any speed over 100mph, are are about as good of odds as you minding your own business, and commenting only in threads that pertain to you and your driving style, while on this forum.
Last edited by 3 Z06ZR1; 11-19-2018 at 04:22 PM.
11-19-2018, 04:18 PM
#74
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Oct 2005
Location: Metro Detroit Michigan
Posts: 7,075
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No one has "a need" for a Z06, so let's put that one out to pasture right away.
11-19-2018, 04:18 PM
#75
Correct.
But a car that makes 680hp in the hot at altitude, will easily make 750 in the cold at sea level, with the same blower and pulley size... The fuel system could keep up with 680hp worth of air flow, but cant keep up with 750 worth of air flow. So the pump becomes maxed out in cold, and at low altitudes.
See if you can fathom that... for the first time ever...
For the love of f***ing god.
But a car that makes 680hp in the hot at altitude, will easily make 750 in the cold at sea level, with the same blower and pulley size... The fuel system could keep up with 680hp worth of air flow, but cant keep up with 750 worth of air flow. So the pump becomes maxed out in cold, and at low altitudes.
See if you can fathom that... for the first time ever...
For the love of f***ing god.
Last edited by Mikec7z; 11-19-2018 at 04:23 PM.
11-19-2018, 04:20 PM
#76
11-19-2018, 04:25 PM
#77
Team Owner
There is always room for improvements to cars. My ZO6 has been trouble free. It can get me to 180mph when needed. GM knows how to deliver fuel and they know how to design an inter cooler circuit. In my opinion they built the exact car they wanted to. And they’re still improving.
11-19-2018, 04:27 PM
#78
Team Owner
11-19-2018, 04:30 PM
#79
They should ban you.
11-19-2018, 04:31 PM
#80
swear to god, the moderators need to let us start a poll, where it asks, who is the problem, you or I.
And one of us gets banned after the vote is over.
And one of us gets banned after the vote is over.