Notices
C7 Z06 Discussion General Z06 Corvette Discussion, LT4 Corvette Technical Info, Performance Upgrades, Suspension Setup for Street or Track
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Inexpensive track tire

 
Old 01-16-2019, 07:20 AM
  #1  
Viking0728
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Viking0728's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2018
Location: Orlando
Posts: 293
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default Inexpensive track tire

Has anyone ever tried these for track days? I'm just getting started and this on a 19 that will clear my CCB seems like a good option.



Viking0728 is offline  
Old 01-16-2019, 09:02 AM
  #2  
Toddiesel
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Mar 2016
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 786
Thanked 83 Times in 67 Posts
Default

I haven't tried them for the track, but I had them on my 2013 Mustang GT. They are pretty abysmal, both from a straight line perspective and a cornering perspective. Just to give you an idea, I think the PSS are not that great for putting down the power of our Zs. Having said that, when I went from those ventus v12 evos to the PSS on my Mustang I thought "holy **** this is the stickiest tire on the planet!". They're serious garbage.
Toddiesel is offline  
Old 01-16-2019, 09:20 AM
  #3  
6104696
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Jul 2015
Posts: 683
Thanked 193 Times in 93 Posts
Default

I put a set on my CTSV, to replace the PS2's. They were a noticeable step down on the track, but they were a fine street tire. They wore a lot slower than the PS2's too.

if you want a high performance track tire, look elsewhere. If you want a reasonable tire that saves you some cash, it's not a bad choice. I recall thinking that they were 85% of the tire for 50% of the price (it has been a few years... ). I can't comment on how they might be on a Z06.
6104696 is offline  
Old 01-16-2019, 09:23 AM
  #4  
Toddiesel
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Mar 2016
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 786
Thanked 83 Times in 67 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by 6104696 View Post
I put a set on my CTSV, to replace the PS2's. They were a noticeable step down on the track, but they were a fine street tire. They wore a lot slower than the PS2's too.

if you want a high performance track tire, look elsewhere. If you want a reasonable tire that saves you some cash, it's not a bad choice. I recall thinking that they were 85% of the tire for 50% of the price (it has been a few years... ). I can't comment on how they might be on a Z06.
Yeah but that last 15% is arguably the most important part!
Toddiesel is offline  
Old 01-16-2019, 10:03 AM
  #5  
6104696
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Jul 2015
Posts: 683
Thanked 193 Times in 93 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Toddiesel View Post
Yeah but that last 15% is arguably the most important part!
on track, if you want to be the fastest and be able to push the car (chassis and drivetrain) the hardest, I agree. But a little less traction just changes the way the driver reacts....you can still have a blast on track with slightly lower performance tires...or even a lower performance car.

(ok I realize that I am gonna get myself flamed now, but I am dressed for it....)
6104696 is offline  
Old 01-16-2019, 10:09 AM
  #6  
Toddiesel
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Mar 2016
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 786
Thanked 83 Times in 67 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by 6104696 View Post
on track, if you want to be the fastest and be able to push the car (chassis and drivetrain) the hardest, I agree. But a little less traction just changes the way the driver reacts....you can still have a blast on track with slightly lower performance tires...or even a lower performance car.

(ok I realize that I am gonna get myself flamed now, but I am dressed for it....)
Fair enough. Personally I couldn't even deal with those tires on the street though. I do drive very aggressively, pushing on/off ramps to 1+ Gs, WOT anytime I'm pole position at a stop light, fast/tight lane changes when i need to pass a couple of people that are going slow as ***** and won't make a "courteous" gap for me... etc. Those evos just weren't enough for me. But to each their own. If you're just using them as "fodder" on the track, they are significantly cheapwe than something like the R888R which will run you like 2 grand for a set (I know, I JUST bought a set)

Last edited by Toddiesel; 01-16-2019 at 10:10 AM.
Toddiesel is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Toddiesel For This Useful Post:
rwheelz (01-17-2019)
Old 01-16-2019, 04:53 PM
  #7  
6104696
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Jul 2015
Posts: 683
Thanked 193 Times in 93 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Toddiesel View Post
I do drive very aggressively, pushing on/off ramps to 1+ Gs, WOT anytime I'm pole position at a stop light, fast/tight lane changes when i need to pass a couple of people that are going slow as ***** and won't make a "courteous" gap for me... etc.
oh dear.
6104696 is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to 6104696 For This Useful Post:
jloZ06 (01-20-2019), Plstxmd (01-21-2019)
Old 01-16-2019, 05:31 PM
  #8  
Bill Dearborn
Tech Contributor
 
Bill Dearborn's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte (formerly Endicott, NY) NC
Posts: 32,821
Thanked 3,327 Times in 2,226 Posts
Default

18 inch wheels will fit over the CCB brakes there are plenty of people running 18s on their C7 Z06s and GSs. The tire itself doesn't look like it could hold up well doing dry track duty. It might be OK when you are driving in the rain. Most street tires are not designed to be run at high tread temperatures since even in very hot high ambient temp areas the tread temps don't go above 135 to 140 degrees. The Michelin PSS ZP tires seem to perform very well on track where tire temps can reach above 200 degrees. The PSS ZP operate at 190 degree (their max grip operating temperature) at 26 psi cold pressure.

Don't think because a tire has street cred that it can stand up to track duty. I tried a set of Nitto NT05 street tires on my C6Z. They had a great street cred with all sorts of people claiming how great they stuck and handled. On track they didn't last more than 10 minutes before they got so greasy it was like driving a car on wet pavement instead of dry pavement. When I went back to the poorly rated GY EMT ZPs they could handle 20 minute sessions and handled very well.

Bill

Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 01-16-2019 at 05:41 PM.
Bill Dearborn is offline  
Old 01-16-2019, 05:40 PM
  #9  
Thomasmoto
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Thomasmoto's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2011
Location: GREER SC
Posts: 4,628
Thanked 307 Times in 258 Posts
Default

[color=left=#ffffff]IInexpensive track tiren[/color][b=left]Inexpensive track tire[/b][color=left=#000000] [/color]

These words don't usually belong in the same sentence.[color=left=#ffffff]expensive track tire[/color]
Thomasmoto is offline  
Old 01-16-2019, 06:13 PM
  #10  
Viking0728
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Viking0728's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2018
Location: Orlando
Posts: 293
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Thomasmoto View Post
[color=left=#ffffff]IInexpensive track tiren[/color]Inexpensive track tire[color=left=#000000] [/color]

These words don't usually belong in the same sentence.[color=left=#ffffff]expensive track tire[/color]
As someone new to doing HPDE, what will be the advantage of using a racing tire?
Viking0728 is offline  
Old 01-16-2019, 08:16 PM
  #11  
Bill Dearborn
Tech Contributor
 
Bill Dearborn's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte (formerly Endicott, NY) NC
Posts: 32,821
Thanked 3,327 Times in 2,226 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Viking0728 View Post
As someone new to doing HPDE, what will be the advantage of using a racing tire?
You don't need a racing tire but you need something better than the tire you chose. The PSS ZP is a better tire than it is. Also look at the BFG G Force Series tires or Bridgestone Potenza S007A tires.

Bill
Bill Dearborn is offline  
Old 01-16-2019, 09:44 PM
  #12  
X25
Sr.Random input generator
Support Corvetteforum!
 
X25's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: Sammamish, WA
Posts: 4,011
Thanked 415 Times in 336 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by 6104696 View Post
on track, if you want to be the fastest and be able to push the car (chassis and drivetrain) the hardest, I agree. But a little less traction just changes the way the driver reacts....you can still have a blast on track with slightly lower performance tires...or even a lower performance car.

(ok I realize that I am gonna get myself flamed now, but I am dressed for it....)
When you get way off in traction, you also happen to change the character of the car in terms of handling. Our cars already have overwhelming torque as is, and much less traction would make the car much more sketchy, and 'nervous'. In short, I don't think it'd be as fun as you're suggesting : )

For track tires, my bar would be NT01s; I'd not want to use anything with less traction on a Corvette.

On a Miata, sure, you can go nuts. On a Corvette, though, even OEM suspension will feel too stiff with lower traction tires, and you'll be hunting lines in corners; why bother?
X25 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to X25 For This Useful Post:
Plstxmd (01-21-2019)
Old 01-17-2019, 02:11 AM
  #13  
6104696
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Jul 2015
Posts: 683
Thanked 193 Times in 93 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by X25 View Post
When you get way off in traction, you also happen to change the character of the car in terms of handling. Our cars already have overwhelming torque as is, and much less traction would make the car much more sketchy, and 'nervous'. In short, I don't think it'd be as fun as you're suggesting : )

For track tires, my bar would be NT01s; I'd not want to use anything with less traction on a Corvette.

On a Miata, sure, you can go nuts. On a Corvette, though, even OEM suspension will feel too stiff with lower traction tires, and you'll be hunting lines in corners; why bother?
agree but I didnt find the Hankooks to be anywhere near that bad on my ctsv on the track (and I have done a good number of track days on various gen ctsv's and Z06s....)..... Maybe they are worse on a mustang with a live axle, different aspect ratio, and overall lesser suspension and chassis dynamics.

or maybe I just drive like a sissy-boy.....
6104696 is offline  
Old 01-17-2019, 03:19 AM
  #14  
X25
Sr.Random input generator
Support Corvetteforum!
 
X25's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: Sammamish, WA
Posts: 4,011
Thanked 415 Times in 336 Posts
Default

One of the things I've forcefully learned in the recent years is that suspension setup and the tire traction really needs to be very closely matched. When the tires have too low traction, it feels like you're driving on ice, the rear snap-oversteers and skips track, the front seems to have terminal understeer, which exacerbates the loss of traction from the cheap tire, and it's no longer a fun car to drive. When you use tires that are too much for your setup, then the car starts leaning everywhere, feeling like a boat, slowing down the chassis responses, and rubbing your confidence where you need it most, making you think you must be very close to the limits of the car (even though you're not necessarily there). In short, in my opinion, driving the car with much lower traction than designed, and having just as much fun is a myth.

I'm sure you can still have fun with such tires, don't get me wrong, but I personally don't think it could ever come close to the fun of driving a very well balanced car close to its limits, since it won't be : )

(Note: My bottomline is, sure, go with lower price, like NT01, but not necessarily lower traction)

Last edited by X25; 01-17-2019 at 03:28 AM.
X25 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to X25 For This Useful Post:
Plstxmd (01-21-2019)
Old 01-18-2019, 12:05 AM
  #15  
solotronics
CF Member
 
solotronics's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2018
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 73
Thanked 18 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Toddiesel View Post
pushing on/off ramps to 1+ Gs, WOT anytime I'm pole position at a stop light, fast/tight lane changes when i need to pass a couple of people
watch out y'all Ricky Bobby over here pullin some G's. just messing with you man I am the same way a bit. be safe out there. when you are moving at a high velocity delta to other cars you will not be able to react to things in time as if you were just taking it easy.

the 18" wheels and tires fit on a Z06 and they are much cheaper. the track slicks are cheaper too. there are some great posts by Bill Dearborn on here about this setup.

Last edited by solotronics; 01-18-2019 at 12:11 AM.
solotronics is offline  
Old 01-18-2019, 07:48 AM
  #16  
Viking0728
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Viking0728's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2018
Location: Orlando
Posts: 293
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Bill Dearborn View Post
18 inch wheels will fit over the CCB brakes there are plenty of people running 18s on their C7 Z06s and GSs. The tire itself doesn't look like it could hold up well doing dry track duty. It might be OK when you are driving in the rain. Most street tires are not designed to be run at high tread temperatures since even in very hot high ambient temp areas the tread temps don't go above 135 to 140 degrees. The Michelin PSS ZP tires seem to perform very well on track where tire temps can reach above 200 degrees. The PSS ZP operate at 190 degree (their max grip operating temperature) at 26 psi cold pressure.

Don't think because a tire has street cred that it can stand up to track duty. I tried a set of Nitto NT05 street tires on my C6Z. They had a great street cred with all sorts of people claiming how great they stuck and handled. On track they didn't last more than 10 minutes before they got so greasy it was like driving a car on wet pavement instead of dry pavement. When I went back to the poorly rated GY EMT ZPs they could handle 20 minute sessions and handled very well.

Bill
What size 18s would your recommend to clear the CCBs and have a good selection of tires? I'm trying to get ready for my first track day and don't want to tear up my new PSS on the factory wheels.

Thanks
Viking0728 is offline  
Old 01-18-2019, 08:02 AM
  #17  
Toddiesel
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Mar 2016
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 786
Thanked 83 Times in 67 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by solotronics View Post
watch out y'all Ricky Bobby over here pullin some G's. just messing with you man I am the same way a bit. be safe out there. when you are moving at a high velocity delta to other cars you will not be able to react to things in time as if you were just taking it easy.

the 18" wheels and tires fit on a Z06 and they are much cheaper. the track slicks are cheaper too. there are some great posts by Bill Dearborn on here about this setup.
Hey, if you ain't first, you're last! You're absolutely right about reaction times. Since my portfolio is in the toilet, might as well die young(ish), right?? The gf is always harping on me about that as well. Knock on wood, my reflexes are still pretty decent and i only text and drive when I have the cruise control set (kidding).

As far as 18 inchers go, I personally just can't support that. I think it makes the vette look like an old Chevelle, with the small wheels and high side wall tires. If you're JUST using it for the track, I guess that's ok, but personally I prefer to stick with 20s and would only drop down to 19s if I were getting some wheels like these:


19" full carbon fiber wheels with titanium lugs from Carbon Revolution
Toddiesel is offline  
Old 01-18-2019, 08:10 AM
  #18  
Checkmate1
CF Senior Member
 
Checkmate1's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2013
Location: East of Baltimore MD
Posts: 759
Thanked 189 Times in 115 Posts
Default

You can also do 19 x 10 and 19 x 12 and get some Toyo R888R's. in the relevant sizes.
Checkmate1 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Checkmate1 For This Useful Post:
Toddiesel (01-18-2019)
Old 01-18-2019, 08:12 AM
  #19  
Toddiesel
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Mar 2016
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 786
Thanked 83 Times in 67 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Checkmate1 View Post
You can also do 19 x 10 and 19 x 12 and get some Toyo R888R's. in the relevant sizes.
Absolutely, and that's what I'd suggest, but they're far from inexpensive. The set I just ordered was 2 grand. Might be a few hundred cheaper for 19" rears.
Toddiesel is offline  
Old 01-18-2019, 09:05 AM
  #20  
Checkmate1
CF Senior Member
 
Checkmate1's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2013
Location: East of Baltimore MD
Posts: 759
Thanked 189 Times in 115 Posts
Default

Whatever you do, NEVER cheap out on tires. They are the contact patch between you and the road and the most single important component of your driving experience.

The C7 Z06 has a lot of low end grunt in a relatively light car. You should focus on being able to put the power down. The only way that happens is with super sticky rubber with a wide contact patch. If I were you, I would think about Michelin PS4 tires. Tried and true. Bit more money upfront with huge rewards.
Checkmate1 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Inexpensive track tire


Sponsored Ads
Vendor Directory

Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: