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Vote on the new cutout shape...

 
Old 02-22-2019, 10:09 PM
  #21  
Mikec7z
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Tooling around with the idea of putting vertical planes on the inner verticals as well, by the brake ducts. Might be too busy. Putting the outer verticals to come out atop the dive planes will allow and easy way for me to lock the dive planes into place better. I think im out too wide with the verticals however. Looks a little "fangy" Also, Made the dive planes wider at the bottom, and more squared off.

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Old 02-23-2019, 12:30 AM
  #22  
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Hardest part is going to be just to the left of the star. I have to have a piece where it joins from the top of the opening to the bottom of the opening. Might not seem like a big deal, but in real life, if it is just a laminated looking lip at the edge of the cars cut body work, people will know it is aftermarket and hate the look of it. I have some ideas, like a reverse vent. The top dive plane is as much to hide and distract people from looking at the vertical edge below it, as the dive plane is a functioning piece. If i can hide the vertical seam from most angles of perspective, using the dive planes, then it wont be the end of the world if it is ugly right there i guess. Reverse vent is my best idea thus far. I'll draw soon so you understand what im saying.


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Old 02-23-2019, 06:06 PM
  #23  
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I know the wing on the top row is not for everyone. I am trying to figure out how to make this whole thing modular, so that the top and bottom are 2 pieces... so the top could be swapped for the one with the wing, or without.

The first kit will not have a wing on top, just the bottom. But been spending the day brainstorming on a clever way for this to all snug together and still be strong, and not fall off the car (priority number 1).

Im also looking for simple metal bracket makers in the jupiter west palm area of south florida... but i think I've got that figured out I hope.

We figured out a way to hang the oil coolers in the car, on both sides, without drilling a single hole or cutting the inside of the car at all. The other vendors might think this is impossible, or maybe they figured it out also, i haven't looked at their brackets. Time will tell. But im pretty excited i figured it out finally. This is important, because if the kit is removed, no one would ever know it was on the car. (gm voids warranties if you cool your oil or other fluids down... brilliant) I want to make this kit easy to install and easy to remove, and i think you guys will be mind blown once we reveal what we have and the cooling results.
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Old 02-23-2019, 07:00 PM
  #24  
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Mike,
Thanks so very much for all your effort and research on this.

I look forward to a solution which conforms to your quote
Originally Posted by Mikec7z
This is important, because if the kit is removed, no one would ever know it was on the car.


I refuse to track my car until I have a reasonable solution... because I WILL go into "Limp" mode quickly, otherwise.

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Old 02-23-2019, 10:33 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by NTMD8R View Post
Mike,
Thanks so very much for all your effort and research on this.

I look forward to a solution which conforms to your quote


I refuse to track my car until I have a reasonable solution... because I WILL go into "Limp" mode quickly, otherwise.
Thank you buddy for the kind words.

i give you my word we have it solved. I am not just blowing smoke or talking a big game.

The bracket that allows the HX to be hung on both sides of the car, right now it is just in paper form, but by early this coming week, it will be metal (and eventually carbon as an option for the real racers) and I will have a photo to show.

The other vendors MAY have a similar bracket for all that I know, I have not looked at their brackets, other than what I can see here online. I don't want to steal their thunder if they already thought of the way we figured out how to do it.

Hopefully they don't think I copied them if they do already have the "magic bracket" that locks everything into place with no drilling or cutting of anything.

The cutting that does need to occur is on a couple of the oil cooler's bracket tabs.

For reference, we are using the Setrab Pro Line, Single Pass, 6 series, 40 row, oil/fluid coolers. They are huge and they are thick. This will cool the oil... not the water. So there is not a double exchange taking place, so the Delta aka difference in temp is substantial and therefore it provides more heat Dissipation/Extraction from the car. We have installed them already into another car, but its bracket was not pretty and we did some cutting to the car. That is when i realized it is possible to do this without leaving a trace. And this bracket really is magic, you are going to literally laugh when you see how it goes in, and it is already mounted to the cooler.... you literally just hang it and tighten an already existing screw and it cant move and it is STRONG. Sounds impossible? no, its just MAGIC

I genuinely believe we will have the best oil cooling system for these cars, that currently exists, period. Here are some photos from tonight of us putting it on the car for mock-up... the oil cooler has to be trimmed which hopefully I can accomplish tomorrow. A Setrab specific molded shroud and fan can be attached to these coolers, and the nose of the car can remain sealed shut, and a car will still receive better cooling vs any other "no cut" solution on the market. Keep in mind, our design is modular. You could run both cheeks as the 6 series 40 row, just for engine oil alone, and there will be NO PRESSURE DROP within the motor or its bearings, that was my biggest goal. Then we have other places to put large HD coolers, that we have not revealed yet, but it will be called the "batwing" design... and it is 2 more coolers, in a location on the car no one has ventured yet. Any cooler in any of our modular setup, can be plugged into any cooling system in the car. We are making it so that everything is plug and play with the factory fittings and quick connects. And if and when we do decide to sell it, the price that we sell it, is probably going to have other vendors very unhappy with us.

We waited patiently long enough. We were mocked long enough. Now we came to play. I believe this will be the best cooling system for vettes, hands down. If anyone is about to pull the trigger on another kit... i highly advise you wait a week or 2 because you will regret your decision. I know I am biased... but seriously... the stats on the cooler we are using.. don't lie.. and we are using multiple to further cool the trans, the oil, and the blower fluid... but the blower fluid is the LEAST important one to cool, the engine oil is the most important to cool. Once it is cool, blower fluid temps remain at better lower levels.

Rather than get into a pissing match on data spreadsheets.. we intend to put our car on the track VS the competitors. Price tags of the kits disclosed. And go head to head and compare temps. We are confident we will win.

The bigger radiator and HX for blower coolant... those items don't need to be added. Ironically, hardcore racers are going to be asking if they can get smaller ones... to shave weight once they see what our kits do. Once the oil heat is kept in check, the water coolant is relieved of its duties and its temps fall. But as of right now, there is no company named yet, and we are not vendors here. This is all just hopes and dreams for now... I'm not promising anything I'm not allowed to yet. If and when that changes, rest assured we will be vendors on this forum and several threads showing the several different things we have been testing, will all be released at once.








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Old 02-23-2019, 10:40 PM
  #26  
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the 640 on its side, leaves a couple inches of gap between it and the bottom of the car, so if you do hit a driveway or run over something and your nose does a big flex upward, the cooler will not hit. This is why we are putting it on its side as it is taller than it is wide... as long as the tabs are cut off and altered, which we are doing.
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Old 02-23-2019, 10:50 PM
  #27  
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The highlighted row is the cooler we are using on both sides of the car. Notice the Horse Power rating for EACH cooler. I am not exagerating when I say, that with our Batwing kit and these 2 coolers, we have 2,000 HP worth of cooling capability at our disposal. And unlike the existing vendors out there, we dont stack our coolers... every cooler gets its own cold fresh air. This matters.

2 of these coolers cooling engine oil only... and I hate to think how cold the oil would remain, because I have already witnessed the impact that 1 can do, and I personally will be running 1 engine oil and 1 transmission cooler on my car... because I already know how well the 1 cooler solves the problem. The thermostatic switches allow the oil to warm up before the oil is directed through 1 or more of these coolers. Once oil temps are put in check.. everything else in the engine, and the blower fluid, is fine.

We brought up the thermostatic oil fitting here on the forum a year ago, and vendors adopted it. But they have still not done things the way we plan to do them. Some are still plumbing things in ways and orienting oil coolers in ways we do not approve of. Some are still asking their customer to pay to attack water temps before oil temps. But our days of bickering with them are over. We will make the best setup for ourselves, and then maybe sell it for those who agree with us

And those vendors who claim we have no good ideas since they do tests and we dont? .. They will get their "tests" soon enough. And it will be our car vs theirs on a track, same speed, same shift points, same day, same ambient temps. This is not rocket science. How it has taken this long for our solutions to be implemented, I am not sure. But we are almost there.



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Old 02-23-2019, 11:02 PM
  #28  
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The reason I abandoned the chin mounted double forward facing oil cooler, is not that it does not work, it is the problem that it requires cutting of the tray that holds the flat laying oil cooler.

I will still offer that to people willing to cut their cars... but once I realized we can just add these and attach big fans to them, and leave all the stock coolers and tray alone... I realized this just made more sense, and ease of install is a 2 instead of an 8 out of 10, as there is no cutting and nothing to mess up on.

The hardest part of the install will be taking the nose off the car. Literally.

These brackets are magic

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Old 02-24-2019, 12:06 AM
  #29  
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Had someone PM me asking how we plan to insert an additional trans cooler in the front of the car without cutting the trans hard lines, kind of calling me out a bit, but at least smart enough to give me the benefit of the doubt at this point, so he did so in a private message. He also knew how impossible it is to obtain GM 1/2 inch transmission male, and especially female, quick connect ports. (edit: he says he was not calling me out, he was just aware that if I had the solution, I probably did not want others to know. Nah, we don't mind. Everyone will know soon enough anyway when they are installing them on their own cars)

A little background...

For those of you who don't know, manufacturers like GM have 1/2 inch transmission hard line for their transmission coolers in the z06 and other A8 vettes with the coolers in the front chin. Take a stroll on the internet or your local GM parts department, and see if you can get the female port to this quick connect used throughout our cars. I'll save you the month of searching... the answer is no, you cannot. GM does not want the aftermarket community to be able to enter their stock cooling circuit without detection, they want you to cut a line so that they know you altered their car so they can void your warranty. Thus, they dont sell these fittings to the general public. So how does one plug into the factory transmission lines without cutting anything?

Bravo to the Ohio oil cooler boys for figuring this one out to make installation of the transmission coolers a breeze...

You just have to know where to enter... Sorry GM Better luck next time



Now you guys understand why the only thing we have left to figure out is holes in the front fascia of the car. We don't want you all going out and cutting squares in the front of your cars. Overheating in a corvette, and expensive kits to solve it... are history.

Dont buy bigger radiators heavier radiators. Dont buy bigger heavier blower HX in front of the radiator... Just wait a week or 2. I promise. Save your money and the weight. There is a better way, that pound for pound, dollar for BTU extracted and evacuated, cools things down beyond what other vendors may want you to know is possible.

And if you want an automatic, buy it... you wont be able to come within 40 degrees of overheating it with what we have as our stage 1 kit, i promise you.

the Stage 2 we figured out with the batwing... you'll be as cool on a road course as you currently are driving down the highway on a summer day with the stock cooling system.

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Old 02-24-2019, 02:55 PM
  #30  
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Had to give the inside layer a thin coat of resin where the fiber was white and dry... I've decided it is probably wise to make the inverse mold of this so that i have the faux front end of the car, so that I can mock up the ducting and everything on a fake front end, and will cut the first holes in it for the ducts, instead of in a real bumper. Its been very humid in west palm, so things are taking a while to harden up. I will have to sand the inside of this again, and try to remove the high spots from the newly placed resin.

I also did a bit of reinforcement of the thin edges by the brake duct area. I have the right shape on the inside of the mold where it matters, the outside is where i added strength, that was done after this photo. The blue tape are 2 pieces that i must have put on AFTER i coated the rest of the tape with anti stick.... as these 2 pieces of tape are literally absorbed into the resin/mold.

I still think its a miracle no paint came up with the mold when i pulled it off the front end.. it took me a good hour to pry it away from the nose, bit by bit... without cracking the mold around the brake duct area.
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Old 02-24-2019, 05:27 PM
  #31  
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Anything is going to look better than a square
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Old 02-24-2019, 07:27 PM
  #32  
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This is gaining some good traction. Will be watching closely.
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Old 02-24-2019, 08:24 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Oh4GTO View Post
This is gaining some good traction. Will be watching closely.
THank you for your support.

So, i should have mentioned, the car that has the other brackets on it, it has a slightly smaller cooler. My gut was that we could put a bigger cooler, and make it work. Luckily I was right. The irony is, on the other bracket on the other car, it is a total hack job compared to how this kit on this cooler is going to work.

The paper mock up bracket that I made last night, notice the CURL it has on its far side. That curl attaches to the car's existing panel. That existing panel is in a triangle shape if looking from above.

The point is, that curl, once made out of metal or carbon, can be put around the car's flat panel/beam under the headlight, if started to the left side. Then once it is around the panel, it can be slid to the right. As it slides to the right, the panel's triangle shape becomes larger, and the curl ends up tightening against the panel. THe oil cooler cut out on the bracket tab that I have pictured below, does the rest of the work. That notch, afixed to the backet and against the cars flat panel, will not let the cooler move in any other vector of motion that the curl does not already have covered. Curl keeps the cooler from moving towards front of the car. Notch out of the oil cooler keeps it from moving up, down, or towards the back of the car. Curl keeps it from moving to the right. THe only thing left to solve is movement back to the left. Coindidentally, the car has a small hole already drilled on this panel where the electrical connections hang from normally. THis hole can have a simple bolt come down through the bracket, and line up with the hole. This now keeps the bracket from moving to the left. Meanwhile, the left side of the bracket and left side of oil cooler is also going to hang from the top side of the connection point where you see the screw on the left side by my left hand.

The bottom of the cooler will be mounted in another bizarre way, but we can already tell it is going to be stronger than the other bracket setup we had with the smaller cooler. Its one of those thigns you will have to feel for yourself to believe. But the point of all this is, if the bracket is already attached to the cooler, the cooler can literally be hung in the car in literally under 60 seconds, which will include backing out the screw on the left side, and reinstalling that screw and putting in the key bolt which will keep the bracket from moving back to the left. The curl and the oil cooler itself do the rest of the work.

I apologize about the demel cut out tab... i was getting bored waiting for the machine shop tomorrow, and went ahead and cut it out now to make some progress. I will keep this ugly one for my car. If we make them for other people eventually, then theirs will look better of course, and be resealed in black









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Old 02-24-2019, 08:26 PM
  #34  
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the cooler coming right up to the plane snug also makes it so that no air can pass above the top. The bottom left and right are the next to solve. The fan shroud makes this all a moot point. If a person does not do the fan, and instead does the cutouts in the front bumper, then we will work to have perfect ducting that mandates air only goes to the cooler, as we will have a duct wall for the left, right and bottom sides.

EDIT: i should note, once the Hang/Curl bracket is made, the cooler cut out on the right will accommodate the bracket's thickness as well, so the cooler will be scratching on on the bracket, not your car's panel. This provides more strength as well obviously

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Old 02-24-2019, 08:46 PM
  #35  
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I should also note, for those of you who think you are going to build this yourself and save a few bucks... don't do it you wont save a few bucks. You have no idea how reasonably priced these will be if we end up doing a group buy. If that time comes, the price we get the oil coolers for, will be low enough, that I can sell to you for the same amount you could source everything yourself... but with out the headache.

Give me a week

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Old 02-24-2019, 09:29 PM
  #36  
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We will still have to remove the front bumper/fascia for install, right ?
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Old 02-24-2019, 09:44 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by NTMD8R View Post
We will still have to remove the front bumper/fascia for install, right ?
Yeah, that will be the hardest part of the install, and its not hard, just removes some screws and know where to pull first to get the bumper to unhook. I'll make a video explaining it all. I put my car up on wood blocks to prove a point, this can be done in a person's driveway without a lift. All they need are some ramps or a jack and 2 dollars worth of wood from home depot.

This will also be very modular and versatile in the regard that... lets say you run the drivers side cooler for trans cooling, and the passenger side for engine oil. Then lets say your trans temps are of no concern to you and you want to cool down your blower fluid instead. The same cooler in the drivers side that was a trans cooler, can be turned into the additional blower cooler with just a swap of hoses, and the other hoses go on the shelf and wait for you to change your mind back again, or visa versa. The hoses and fittings to make any cooler at any location, cool any fluid, will be already ready to be ordered and shipped should we decide to become a vendor.

People may THINK they will never change what the coolers are used for... but as more coolers are introduced like the "batwing" concept... then people might say, okay, i want my oil all going through the batwing only, and I want the water from my blower going through the passenger side cheek, and I want my drivers side cooler to be an extra trans cooler. (and that car, in that configuration, i am going to go out on a limb and say, it will weight less, and out-cool, any car with any cooling kit on the market. Real head to head tests will tell in time)

A person can literally start out with 1 cooler, on one side, and cool down just their oil or blower fluid, and use a fan since you don't want just one cheek cut. Or maybe you cut both, and you don't care that the other side is empty. I don't know, your car.

But the days of regretting buying one kit, and having to remove it to install a "better kit" are over. Except for the kits everyone have to remove to install this one perhaps

And we aren't worried about being beat because we are stuffing the biggest, highest quality coolers, in each location. Setrab is the top of the line cooler in the marketplace. We could go with cheaper stuff, but its a vette, why not have the best? These Setrabs are super nice units. It pained me to make that cut into the tab

And the people who have existing kits from other vendors, aside from regretting the cutout shapes in their bumpers... they are going to realize that those kits actually added more weight to their cars than needed, along with ruining their stock radiator shroud/cowl and front tray which were all modded, and radiators and blower HX replaced, with aftermarket, so their warranties are gone, and those are both items that don't need to be replaced, so it boils down to... they burned money and their warranty is gone and their race car weighs more as a result... all in one sitting.

So, in the back of their mind, they are going to be jealous, because at any given moment, yours can be removed by you in your driveway in a couple hours time, without a trace.... should your engine be one of the 1 percent'ers that throw a rod or drop a valve while you are racing around the track or just down the road.

Its your car and your life, not suggesting anyone do this... but lets be real... no chevy store is going to be able to detect any of our kits were ever on the car, after they have been removed. We are going the extra mile that no one else cares to... while also providing the biggest and best coolers, in the places they will see airflow and make the biggest impacts.

Drag racers are going to benefit as well... we will have it where they can circulate blower fluid through their stock cooler or the stock cooler and our aux cheek cooler, while their car is shut off, and the fan will be running on the cheek cooler while they are sitting there with the car off in the staging lanes, between runs, via an electrical switch.

Same can be done for the oil... and that's why i have the other thread going where i request to see the inside of the dry sump tank again, because my memory is fading, and I don't want to take mine out of my car just to see it. There is a way to circulate and cool the oil with the car off. Time will tell if the same concept can be used while the car is at full go on a road course to cool the oil. Maybe, maybe not. But our normal kit configuration works on the road course, no problem.

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Old 02-24-2019, 11:53 PM
  #38  
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Here is another idea for your cutout. No dive fins shown. Just the opening.


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Old 02-25-2019, 12:06 AM
  #39  
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I like it. Would you want it to have the fins?

Here is the problem i ran into as i got down to the nitty gritty... I personally don't know of a good way to make the left edge of that cutout... look decent. Its just going to be a cheap looking laminated lip around that shape. The reason im going all the way to the brake duct with the other shapes, is so I can wrap around the lamination back against the brake duct intake where its not visible. It makes it look more factory that way in my opinion. Believe it or not, i have the same shape you have, drawn up here at home... but what i just said was my biggest reservation. Granted, i could run the lamination across from that shape you have there, over to the brake duct... but at that point... i figure... i may as well open it up and have wind hitting the giant Setrab cooler that will be back there.

Its been a tug of war for sure.
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Old 02-25-2019, 12:17 AM
  #40  
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The good news is, the fans are not that expensive, and they still have use for people who like to drag race, even if the opening is there, drag racers will still use fans in the staging lanes behind the coolers, pulling on the cooler from the back side....

the point to all that was... you or anyone else can buy the coolers, install them, run the fan, see the results... and you may realize you dont need to cut the car.... the fans and no cutting with these setrabs is a great solution. Everyone is programmed into thinking they have to buy 4 HX and a new radiator to cool their cars down... one of these setrabs and a fan does wonders if attacking the oil directly.

So, my point is... if you dont like my first iteration of the front end cut outs... no worries or hurry... and it wont just be me coming out with more ideas, it will be the whole community.

This is all going to be like legos... just stack different ideas from different people on top of each other to make a unique car.

I just got sick of arguing with people who think completely differently than I do. Heaven forbid they copy me at this point. I think they realize they are in a bad spot now.... especially with the documentary Byers is about to release about his life and vettes
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