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Vote on the new cutout shape...

 
Old 02-25-2019, 12:18 AM
  #41  
djnice
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Yeah I would want the fin on the bottom at least. Main thing I was interested in was a little more square on the lower right side of the opening, but it depends on shape of fin. I think the fin could go over top of the opening.
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Old 02-25-2019, 12:35 AM
  #42  
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So, another tradeoff to the fin going over the opening is... on the back side of the fin, is vacuum. So, air that comes in one side of the opening, gets sucked out of the other side.

Obviously some will still go through the cooler, but just realize, there is a giant vacuum sucking pressure out of the chamber we want the pressure to exist in. Plus remember, the coolers are tilted back like an arrow, so they aren't eating the wind square. So if you have that vacuum there, it allows the air to kind of bounce off the cooler and go right back out the side, without passing through the cooler.

Just little things to think about
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Old 02-25-2019, 12:44 AM
  #43  
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I'm still trying to figure out a way to build the wings so that they can all be swapped... and you can put different wings on the one opening... one that does not stick out wide and maybe is only on the bottom, and one that is thicker and sticks out the side more, etc.

Coming up with the mounting/joining mechanisms and shapes is the hard part now.

I need to consult an old school furniture builder or something

Last edited by Mikec7z; 02-25-2019 at 12:49 AM.
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Old 02-25-2019, 01:13 AM
  #44  
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My first design will not be this busy, it will be simple. But what I am doing right now is just brainstorming and getting feedback... the aftermarket community and all these car show people and customization... I'm brainstorming how to have this like legos where people can make custom parts for the base kit... and obviously we can have different options for people to buy. Granted, these colors used in this drawing are hideous, but they are to help understand which competent is which. On my black car, this will all be carbon flash or black. Maybe some carbon fiber but doubtful. I will probably have the top edge be lower where it meets the brake duct. Its ironic, as i toil with the utility, i keep coming with a shape by the brake duct that is almost identical to the zr1's vertical in that same area.

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Old 02-25-2019, 01:37 AM
  #45  
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Fresh angle. This car has better lighting. Try to imagine the holes missing and cut out.







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Old 02-25-2019, 02:06 AM
  #46  
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Last edited by Mikec7z; 02-25-2019 at 02:14 AM.
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Old 02-25-2019, 02:17 AM
  #47  
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i cant do the top dive planes unless the top edge of the cutout gets up to the natural seam of the nose by its last 3 or 4 inches of length. To tilt that up, makes the car look like it is smiling again.

Edit:

Or i can make the top edge molding get wider as it goes across, and i can solve it that way...



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Old 02-25-2019, 03:12 AM
  #48  
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Top view of only the top molding... not the opening. Second photo is to try to visualize a top mounted dive plane
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Old 02-25-2019, 12:43 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Mikec7z View Post
I'm still trying to figure out a way to build the wings so that they can all be swapped... and you can put different wings on the one opening... one that does not stick out wide and maybe is only on the bottom, and one that is thicker and sticks out the side more, etc.

Coming up with the mounting/joining mechanisms and shapes is the hard part now.

I need to consult an old school furniture builder or something
Originally Posted by Mikec7z View Post
My first design will not be this busy, it will be simple. But what I am doing right now is just brainstorming and getting feedback... the aftermarket community and all these car show people and customization... I'm brainstorming how to have this like legos where people can make custom parts for the base kit... and obviously we can have different options for people to buy. Granted, these colors used in this drawing are hideous, but they are to help understand which competent is which. On my black car, this will all be carbon flash or black. Maybe some carbon fiber but doubtful. I will probably have the top edge be lower where it meets the brake duct. Its ironic, as i toil with the utility, i keep coming with a shape by the brake duct that is almost identical to the zr1's vertical in that same area.

I'm liking these two the most right now. Mainly because the shape on the inside matches the factory grill shape. Maybe less pointy and smiley on the outer edge.

What about upside down smile? Or maybe maintain the chevron shape on the outside just like the inside of the cutout.

Also how is the air existing once it goes through the coolers? Downward?
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Old 02-25-2019, 07:05 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Oh4GTO View Post
I'm liking these two the most right now. Mainly because the shape on the inside matches the factory grill shape. Maybe less pointy and smiley on the outer edge.

What about upside down smile? Or maybe maintain the chevron shape on the outside just like the inside of the cutout.

Also how is the air existing once it goes through the coolers? Downward?
The stock vehicle has a small opening at the back of that cavity, and toward the center of the car, toward the bottom.

I am thinking about running a shroud on the back of the cooler, and having it funnel down to a round hose and have that hose exit though the opening... but at the same token, i think the air will do that on its own anyway. The problem with having any shape but a smile, kills the dive plane idea to some degree. I could do rectangles more than the smile, but anything like a reverse smile, wont work with dive planes. DJnice's idea might work with the dive planes. I am still waiting on resin to dry, I must not have mixed it well enough with enough hardener... so im playing the hurry up and wait game, right now. Ive been keeping myself busy on other tasks instead.
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Old 02-26-2019, 09:45 PM
  #51  
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another busy day, got some more glass work done, starting to make the inverse of the mold I currently have done, which will be the faux front end of the car, so it will be drying overnight, and I will do another layer of glass on it tomorrow.

Also went to a few bracket fabricators today. Everyone is swamped as it is busy season in south florida. Long story short, they want about 100-200 for the first bracket made, and no one could guarantee what the bracket would cost after that. Keep in mind, that would be the price on each side, so potentially 400 bucks. I am trying to keep the cost on this kit low for everyone if we do decide to market it, and conveniently, one of the fabricators slipped up and told me the metal bending machine is on sale at harbor freight.... so that was an easy choice. 70 bucks later... ill make my own brackets starting tomorrow.

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Old 02-26-2019, 09:50 PM
  #52  
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while talking to the fab shops the past 2 days may have been a waste of time at first glance, I learned a lot on techniques as they described the dilemmas of how I want the bracket bent. The last fabricator i was with today, brought up the same problems, but i brainstormed a way to solve it so it can all be made of one piece and no welding needed. He was the one who pointed out I would want to use a smaller metal bending brake than he had, to accomplish the idea I thought up, so it all ended up working out for the best.

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Old 02-26-2019, 09:56 PM
  #53  
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Just noticed your thread about this - pretty interested to see what you come up with. I have the LG Motorsports cooling kit sitting around, which I haven't installed yet - once I get all those misfire problems sorted out I was going to look into doing it, but I don't love the appearance of the vents so your custom bumper would be a pretty nice change. Since the kit is basically just intercoolers and radiators, do you think it'd be feasible to fit it behind one of your bumpers when you finish the design?
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Old 02-26-2019, 10:04 PM
  #54  
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yeah, It will fit. i have been getting a notable amount of PM's from people who have the cutouts installed already, from various vendors, and they are asking if I could please make my cutouts at least as big as their existing ones, so that they can remove those, cut bigger holes in their bumper, and install mine.

i have no problem with this. I will sell them a-la-carte if and when we become a vendor. The irony is, when Byers tried to call too obtain the cutouts from 3 different vendors, all 3 of those vendors said they would not sell their cutouts unless the person bought their cooling kit also. We were going to get the cutouts shapes and sizes so we could see if it was feasible to make our cutout at least as large as theirs were, so people could make the swap to ours. That plan was shot down. But, we can see their shapes and sizes from photos tho, so all it did was save us money, and kept the other vendors from making a few extra bucks last week from us.

I just can't help but chuckle at the irony that is going to occur. Lets just say I have my predictions... about vendors all the sudden wanting to sell their cutouts a-la-carte also... but by the time they do, no one may be wanting to buy

Last edited by Mikec7z; 02-26-2019 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 02-27-2019, 04:51 PM
  #55  
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More progress today, obtained some flat aluminum sheet metal to see if im capable of building one of these brackets on my own...

Put a layer of fiberglass down on the mold around the brake duct area to strengthen it on the faux front end, need to go buy more resin now.

And here is a close up of the front most oil line on the oil sump system. Notice, it is larger than 3/4 OD, it is even larger than 7/8 OD in spots. Brainstorming all the possibilities to tie into this line, so that you can return your car to factory quickly, should you ever choose to do so. Met with a couple machine shops, looking at the possibility of making the female port blocks for these hose ends to bolt into, that would convert to AN thread and AN-12 hose.









Last edited by Mikec7z; 02-27-2019 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 02-27-2019, 05:10 PM
  #56  
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So your tapping into the return line from the oil pan to the tank? How is the oil being added back to the system after the coolers?
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Old 02-27-2019, 05:20 PM
  #57  
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im not sure i fully follow what you are asking... if the cooler is between the engine and the tank, and the oil exits the engine to the cooler, and then exists the cooler and goes to the tank as it should, but is tremendously cooler now... what would the problem be?

More oil needs to be added to the system in general, to fill the volume of the cooler and the run of the extra hose length, but other than that, there is no problem.

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Old 02-27-2019, 05:28 PM
  #58  
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before we dive too deep into this discussion, i have a whole thread about this topic of why I am tying in here, and we have already tested it and it works fine.

We think the reason no one else has done it yet, is because tying into this line in a PITA, as GM intended for it to be to keep someone from doing exactly what im doing right now. Or the DIY home mechanic and/or vendor, makes the mistake of thinking they are going to remove the "oil cooling brick" and put the "oil cooler somewhere far away from the CAT, and make the car better than GM knew how to!" More on this in a moment...)

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...uto-trans.html

Not only does a front mounted remote oil cooler setup with hoses, that tie into the "oil heat exchanger block location" under the car's engine, drop the engine's oil pressure once the person gets up to higher operating temps on a road course... (and dropping pressure is worse for an engine bearings than increasing heat 9 times out of 10)

(and please notice i called it a "heat exchanger block/brick" and not an "oil cooler block/brick" like most vendors on this forum seem to enjoy making the mistake of doing... GM's purpose for this brick is to bring the temp of the oil UP to safe temps, using the coolant, which heats up the fastest, on cold starts. Thus GM was not dumb when they put it right next to the CAT, most people are not racers. 99% of vette owners don't overheat their cars, they drive them to their office or to the golf course, 10 miles down the road, and heating up 10 quarts of oil to 170 degrees quickly, when the person is doing the speed limit, is a challenge to say the least.)

... not only does that setup drop the oil pressure, removing that block and tying in there for the hoses to the oil cooler, it also dead ends the flow path of the engine coolant water flowing through that heat exchanger. So I have NO desire to tie in and remove that brick. Zero. That block under the engine has purposes that everyone else is happy to ignore it seems. And when you have an oil cooler as big as the Setrab we are installing, capable of cooling 600HP worth of engine oil per unit of time... you need HELP getting your oil up to temp on cold starts... and that is what that brick, that everyone else is "so cleverly removing" is for. Removing it is the very sub par way of doing it, and that is me putting it kindly.

A thermostatic switch valve can still be used, out on this hose from the engine to the Sump Tank. For a dedicated racer who trailers his car to the track and never drives it down the road for 10 mile runs to the grocery, he needs not waste time with the thermo switch valve. For the rest of the population, they probably want a switch

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Old 02-27-2019, 05:35 PM
  #59  
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OP - you in Florida?

For some reason I was thinking you might be.

If you are, there is a vette enthusiast from Fla that holds a good bit of aerodynamics knowledge. You might run your dive plane ideas past him/he could have some reasoned suggestions based on aero.

Let me know if you're interested, and I'll PM his name.
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Old 02-27-2019, 05:42 PM
  #60  
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Byers understands aerodynamics very well, to the point Lockheed was trying to hire him at one point while he was still in college. I'm always up to meet and talk to people, but he and I study the real race cars like its our job, which have had extensive wind tunnel testing, and we have a pretty good grasp what works and why it works, at this point.

Byers grandfather was also world champion hydroplane boat racer and met the president at the white house to receive the "presidents cup trophy"... and they own a bunch of dealerships, and are all a bunch of Ricky Bobbys... and mess with aircraft as well. Aero matters at 150+mph on the water, or else you die, as 3/4 the people he raced against, did, since the boats were open cockpit in 60's and 70's. Darwinism. They understand aero pretty well.

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