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Fair point! I guess if you can then why not? Might be worth getting a little airflow meter to see how much air flow there is in that region at the moment? You can then prove if it’s better or not.
I'm always up for someone to mount a gopro and tape down one end of some 3 inch lengths of yarn (see which way the wind is blowing in an area)
I'm about to pull the trigger on having a bunch of LT Dry Sump Oil line fittings made, which will mount into the stock engine oil pan and also the stock Dry sump oil tank.
These fittings will have AN hose fittings able to be mounted to their reverse side.
IF someone already makes them, please let me know, no need to waste time reinventing the wheel
Should work no problem on Caddy, Camaro, and anything with a LT dry sump oil system
Allows for install of oil coolers and removes one of the stock oil lines from the engine, to the tank.
Mike,
I see you working with the Setrab coolers as most people default to when developing stuff. They make great stuff but sometimes you need or want a size they don't offer. DeWitts would be happy to work with you on this project and develop custom size coolers to fit the space you have instead of trying to create space to fit what they have. They can also offer custom port fittings to support your design.
Mike,
I see you working with the Setrab coolers as most people default to when developing stuff. They make great stuff but sometimes you need or want a size they don't offer. DeWitts would be happy to work with you on this project and develop custom size coolers to fit the space you have instead of trying to create space to fit what they have. They can also offer custom port fittings to support your design.
I appreciate you offer Tom. I am at a point where things are about wrapped up with my current kit. I'm sorry you did not notice the project sooner, I would have been happy to work with you. In the future if there is something we can work out, I will keep you in mind.
Also, if you decide you want to make a kit similar to what I am doing, I will be happy to sell you these LT oil line monoblock fittings at a true cost cost price if you buy quite a few, that way you don't have to go through the hassle of making them yourself. The reason I would do this is because if we as vendors work together and I order these in super bulk, then the price comes down for everyone. No need to reinvent the wheel once someone already went through the hassle. We've already got the cad drawings made and the first items are about to be made in the cnc machine this weekend.
When I look at the Z06 ducts for brake cooling I have to wonder how much this really does. The vent inside the wheel well isn't even close to the rotor and air is already being sucked out of there anyway. Seems to me these would make great inlet ducts for auxiliary coolers
yeah, they do something though, otherwise the air behind the wheel spokes locks in place and becomes stagnant.
What I am doing, the brake ducts can remain in place. If a person does not trim cutouts into their front fascia or buy an aftermarket nose, then the fan will move enough air across the cooler to still have pretty profound impacts.
I had someone point out to me that the other vendor's kits are similar to mine, they are just using a smaller cooler, but using 2 of them on each side.
I threw together the list of why this is not similar...
for simplicity reasons, lets say they are using 2 coolers that are about half the size of the ones I'm using. I'm using 6x40 Setrab Pro Line, so lets say they are using 6x25 Setrab pro line.
My setup runs oil on the passenger side, and will run blower coolant, radiator fluid, or trans coolant on the driver side, depending which you believe you need more.
The other vendors offer oil cooling on their top tier kits. You are probably familiar with the price tags on these. The oil coolers are BEHIND the blower coolant coolers. This means hot air from the blower HX is now exhausting into the oil cooler HX behind it. So the delta is minimized on their kit to cool the oil.
That's their first negative.
Their second negative is their 2 coolers stacked on top of each other, provides a lot of friction/resistance, so it is not an easy job for air to go through BOTH coolers. To say it is twice as difficult, is not accurate, it is actually more than double (has to do with the way flow rates/aerodynamics/paths of least resistance, all work, etc.)
So not only is their delta minimized, their flow rates are cut in half... when compared to running one very large oil cooler on one side, and one very large water or trans cooler on the driver's side of the car.
Next is weight. You have double the fittings. You have more than double the hose used, and while the cores of the HX come out to be the same weight since I'm running one twice as large, you still have the chamber's next to the cores, which once again, are doubled. Your brackets also have to be larger with double coolers.
Then you have the price. Fittings and hose cost money. True net cost will be higher on theirs, always.
Then you have space behind the cooler for a fan, and fan size itself doing work. Our fan is bigger. Instead of having a small fan try to pull air through 2 coolers, we have 1 large fan pulling air through 1 cooler.
Then we have location we are tying into the oil circuit.... we are tying into the oil at the scavenger line back to the tank... this provides for a zero pressure drop on engine oil pressure (oil pressure is more important than oil temp to avoid destruction to bearings in most reasonable cases)
This also has a huge impact on your engine's safety, should you spring a leak. Lets say a projectile hits the oil cooler... or one of the lines is damaged, etc... maybe you change your oil and forget to tighten something down all the way...
Well understand, when you have engine oil pressures of 40psi, pushing the oil though the HX on the other kits that attach where the oil cooler brick goes, and a leak occurs on that system, you're going to lose a lot of oil, and fast. You also just lost your engine oil pressure to some degree as soon as the leak is sprung, and you will totally lose oil pressure once your oil levels get too low.
Meanwhile, ours ties into the scavenger line. This is not a high pressure situation, it is a very large -16 size hose, so restriction is minimized, and even if you do spring a leak for whatever reason, the lack of higher pressure will allow oil to remain in the system, and instead pass by the leak's location instead of be forced out the leak point of identical size for fair comparison purposes. ... but the most important part is, no immediate oil pressure loss to the engine... its on the scavenger pump side, not the engine oil pump side. And again, longer time lengths required to run the system dry of oil in a low pressure line, to where a total oil pressure loss situation occurs for the engine.
We are also using dash 16 equivalent hose, in place of the dash 16 equivalent factory oil line between the engine and the oil tank. We are keeping it wide open like GM designed, so it remains a high flow, low pressure area in the system (for the reasons I described above).
We use single pass coolers to minimize pressure loss and flow reduction downstream of the large single Setrab 640 HX. This also keeps the pressure down in this HX oil circuit
By using large single pass coolers, it gives even easier flow yet vs the other kits on the market. So for instance, a 6x25 is going to create a larger pressure loss downstream compared to a 6x40. More passages for the oil to travel across means it travels slower per passage. Less velocity through the passage, more time for cooling to occur, and also less force needed to push it down the higher number of channels.
Now realize, we are only going through 1 oil cooler, where many vendors are going through 2 coolers, so the restriction is not just halved, its actually one quarter the restriction in ours. Passages and cooler count, some of theirs are double the restriction, twice. which equals 4x.... and that all cruxes on other kits using single pass, and not double pass coolers. Put double pass coolers into the above mix, and you're now at a total of 8x the restriction, and 8x the pressure drop. This is a big deal.
You will also see other vendors put oil coolers in front of the center radiator and blower HX, once again killing delta to the radiator/blower HX, and also reducing total air flow as extra air chooses to go over the hood instead of enter the radiator area, paths of least resistance changed with added HX there.
You will also see other vendors put the oil coolers up high in the engine bay in front of the engine... this adds a huge risk, as the dry sump system is either LOW while under normal operation, or if filled properly for use while operating, but then when the car shuts off, the oil system becomes HIGH in the engine pan/crank case, and that oil is able to make its way back down to the engine oil pan from the high located cooler. For those that don't know, an extra couple quarts of oil can cause the back of the piston face to hit oil on the way down during a cold startup, when the oil has had time to seep back to the engine, especially if the car is parked on the correct incline.... IF the car has more oil in it than factory. It takes oil to fill that oil cooler vendors are throwing up on top in front of their engine.
So, please don't think it is coincidence when we have an answer for every shot other vendors might take at us at a later date... we put more thought into the way we are doing things than most people can imagine.
Thank you all for being patient, good rewards will be here soon.
And I saved the most important for last.... we attack the oil temp first, not last, and we don't require any other cooler to be added or removed or their delta's jeopardized... with our system to cool your oil down, and keep a car out of limp mode, and our system cuts no hoses nor does it cut the car or drill a single hole, if the customer does not want to.
Fan driven, no cut solution, behind the factory fascia. Or cut the fascia, and get even more cooling (assuming you are driving and not parked or going 10mph)
Thank you all for keeping tabs on what we are doing. There is going to be a reason why our 2 large coolers logically, or to some, "mysteriously" outperform the other vendor's 4 HX in the same locations, for certain instances of heat reduction, especially in the "no cut fascia, fan driven" battle.
Head to head testing will be used to demonstrate this, that way there is not silly forum debates about what chart people put together and the outside ambient temps are different, or how the cars were driven is different, yada yada...
2 cars, same transmissions, same day, same track, same pace around that track, same rpm and shift points, and each will have equal opportunity to be out front of the other and get the clean air to see what differences are made in that department.
If our system comes in second place on cooling, we are okay with it, because our system is going to be less than half the price should we become vendors and offer it for sale. But I have a feeling we might also come in first in cooling Its all in the physics and the math and the way we designed everything. Nothing was decided without thought or with a coin toss or us taking the easy paths as we have created this.
Everything was designed in pursuit of the best possible option that the c7's platform allows for, while keeping the car's engine as safe as possible, and not cutting the cars up if the owner does not want to.
Anybody try laying down hx flat(horizontal) in the cheek area(like the aux. is in the chin) with brake duct helping supply air to them? discharging under car and excess flow continuing to brakes? There is quite a bit of room in corners for alot of activities.Might have to do a little dance on the passenger side to not produce heat to intake area.Seams like IC or Oil coolers could benifit. Maybe a no cut solution? Just was installing stage 3 aero and looking at how much room is actually in corners.
I'm always up for someone to mount a gopro and tape down one end of some 3 inch lengths of yarn (see which way the wind is blowing in an area)
thats a great was to visualise the airflow but won’t give you if the flow numbers are better or worse. For that you really need an air speed sensor. Then you could try the smaller but more central openings compared to dumping in front of the wheels. Also might allow you to test how effective the fans are compared to your cut outs. Again it just gives you figures you can work with.
hmmm how about V mounting them in the cheek area to get even more cooler in there?...
Once you see our kit up close... there is no more room
Rune and other vendors are running a 25 row 6 series (and 2 of them stacked)
We are running a 40 row 6 series... we are almost twice the size of the cooler as Rune is using. Rune's kit will work well, but we are on the next level now of what is possible, no one has put a cooler this large, in the cheek yet.
Originally Posted by chuntington101
thats a great was to visualise the airflow but won’t give you if the flow numbers are better or worse. For that you really need an air speed sensor. Then you could try the smaller but more central openings compared to dumping in front of the wheels. Also might allow you to test how effective the fans are compared to your cut outs. Again it just gives you figures you can work with.
Agreed, but i dont need that level of inormation, i would still use a fan on the cooler if it were flat mounted, and I would only want to know which way is best for the fan to run, push or pull, up or down direction.
Have you considered using the aux rad location for a decent sized oil cooler and scrapping the water rad there? Just thinking if you aren’t dumping the heat in the water is the aux rad doing much?
If you did this yoy you could use the cheek radiators for additional HEs for the supercharger. Obviously this would only be for manual cars. Although someone on here with a Whipple did a really neat rear mounted auto trans rad in the rear brake duct.
i could but there comes a point where moving things around becomes pointless. Keep in mind, that HX you speak of is for trans fluid on the A8 cars, which is 3/4 the population.
My original idea was to put 2 heavy duty HX, facing forward there in the spot where that flat cooler exists, with diagonal plates between... but i realized this other idea i have takes a bigger bite out of heat due to the shear size of the cooler, and letting other things remain cool is perfectly fine. Most likely, people will run an additional blower cooler HX in the driver's cheek.
No hard evidence proof yet, but my math says, such a setup will be superior to 4 HX stacked in the 2 cheeks, both in price and in efficiency. The size of the fan is a huge player in this game, and the bigger the single cooler, the bigger the fan that can be used.
So, the cool U beams and brackets came, so now i just have to play lego's and erector set for a bit...
and I also have the cad drawings for the LT/LS dry sump INDIVIDUAL fittings (only pairs are currently made, which messes up the feed line to the pan, which I want to remain stock.
So, then I got to looking around the net at the fittings at the pan and I realized if i put a -16 fitting on the pan fitting (which is what is drawn below in CAD) then by the time the female side of the -16 is attached, THIS fitting then becomes the lowest part of the engine and oil pan...
and when you are me, thats not acceptable.
So, im really leaning towards a compromise to a -12 adapter instead, to keep these from becoming the lowest point, in case road debris flies up and hits that area of the engine pan, or a person bottoms out on a crowned country road, etc.
And then these below are the ones that are discontinued, and are -12, and i like their diameter on the -AN side much better. Also adding the hex so that a wrench can attach to tighten to the -AN hose fitting...
03-16-2019, 11:30 AM
