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You got lucky... you were clearly engaged in a "speed activity" as outlined in the dec pages.. I used to be an adjuster and 9 out 10 companies would have denied the claim. Trackday insurance from NCM, Haggerty, or Lcoton is cheap and you know you're covered.
On another note... what's up with all those trees so close to the racing surface? That looks like some of the most dangerous conditions I've ever seen at at track. On the east coast we have nothing like that... you'd see far more substantial barriers and the trees would be much further away.
Dave,
While I agree with your analysis, a few more data points may be helpful to the forum members.
Did you attend the Ron Fellows or other driving schools?
How many track days do you have in total?
How many track days at this track do you have?
How many track days at this track do you have on this car?
How many track days on these tires?
How many track days running in this mode?
Was this an early morning session?
What lap were you on?
What was ambient air temp?
What was the track temp?
With these questions answered we'll be able to better understanding of your situation. BTW, some very skilled, highly experienced track folks do wreck.
Thanks
Originally Posted by DaveTheWav3
The error was just too much throttle too early in the turn (almost full throttle at the apex) and running in Race Mode, all the electronic nannies were off. So I learned 2 things:
1. I'm not good enough to run in Race mode
2. I need to roll onto the throttle more gently AFTER the apex of the turn
looks like the lateral G's he was pulling were pretty severe when he got back on it hard... steering angle is the biggest one i would study...
and as you say above, track temp, tire temp, laps out, tire wear.
But i think the OP said it all, he got back on the throttle BEFORE he apex'd, at least according to his G meter, which shows he was not pulling that many G leading up to the curve, but then he went to extreme lateral G's and as he was at his max lateral G, probably even a bit before, is when he went to WOT again... and so his steering angle was probably pretty severe at this point in the screen shot below
Those are the specific exclusions for track use. HPDE days are generally covered, but you have to avoid using words like RACING (especially since youre not racing anyone) when you file the claim.
It used to be a lot of insurance companies would cover a car if an incident happened on track in a non competitive event. However, that started changing in the early 2000s and I received an updated exclusions page for my State Farm policy some time around 2007 or 2008 that expressly excluded any incident on a surface meant for racing. When I asked for clarification I was told that meant no part of the policy applied, Liability, Personal Injury, Collision or Comprehensive.
USAA will not sell me a policy for my Corvette since I participate in HPDEs. However, they will sell me a policy to cover my other two vehicles. If I confirm I have stopped participating they will consider adding the Corvette to the policy.
looks like the lateral G's he was pulling were pretty severe when he got back on it hard... steering angle is the biggest one i would study...
and as you say above, track temp, tire temp, laps out, tire wear.
But i think the OP said it all, he got back on the throttle BEFORE he apex'd, at least according to his G meter, which shows he was not pulling that many G leading up to the curve, but then he went to extreme lateral G's and as he was at his max lateral G, probably even a bit before, is when he went to WOT again... and so his steering angle was probably pretty severe at this point in the screen shot below
There are two differences between Sport 1 (what he ran previously) and Race Mode. Sport 1 still has some stability control and has throttle dampening. Race Mode doesn't have an stability control and absolutely no throttle dampening (probably based on the assumption the driver will do the dampening with his right foot.) The dampening slows throttle progression and if you get used to the slower throttle progression and switch to Race the sudden difference in response time to a throttle command may catch the driver by surprise.
OP: On your new car make sure you get the PDR. The multitude of data items it records can really help you understand what happened on a frame by frame basis especially when you use Cosworth Tool Box or Pi-Toolbox to analyze the data.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 04-18-2019 at 09:45 PM.
You really had no reason for being in 2nd gear for that corner and you stabbed it, should have shifted to third. All of these crashes I’ve seen have been because guys are way too eager to get to full throttle and then don’t partial lift and counter steer once they start spinning tires. Can’t believe they paid out I’m going to call them for insurance my State Farm says no insurance on anybrace track surface no matter what and I pay a lot for track insurance from OnTrack.
Clear case of an overconfident driver. Need more work with throttle control- You can hear the traction control/torque management trying to save your *** in both videos.
Insurance should have never paid out on this...
Last edited by Satanspawn; 04-18-2019 at 10:20 PM.
yo... Dave... take down your vid... trying to help you boss man avoid some trouble... because it will come. Delete vid from Youtube asap
As far as his wreck location, if you study the pavement, he was not the first set of skid marks there. Must be a bit of a hop right there that gets the rear ends loose too maybe.
he is lucky it happened there and not in the trees. Blessing in disguise.
It's funny, I thought this thread would be about what I did wrong on the turn, but its mostly about insurance. HAHA
It is about what you did wrong in the curve... The biggest thing you did wrong was video the curve and wreck and then upload that video to youtube and link it here... and that does entail your insurance.
I have track insurance through opentrack but I don’t think this is fraud.
He’s not racing against anyone
He’s not being timed (no transponder)
He’s being coached to become a better driver.
Dave,
While I agree with your analysis, a few more data points may be helpful to the forum members.
Did you attend the Ron Fellows or other driving schools?
How many track days do you have in total?
How many track days at this track do you have?
How many track days at this track do you have on this car?
How many track days on these tires?
How many track days running in this mode?
Was this an early morning session?
What lap were you on?
What was ambient air temp?
What was the track temp?
With these questions answered we'll be able to better understanding of your situation. BTW, some very skilled, highly experienced track folks do wreck.
Thanks
I did years of karting when I was younger, but my track experience in real cars is limited.
9 total track days, 2 in a Chevy SS, 3 in a Cadillac CTS-V and 4 in a Corvette Z06.
7 out of 9 track days have been at Pacific Raceways, the other 2 being at Laguna Seca.
This is the 3rd track day on Cup 2 tires, the previous track day in the Z06 was on Super Sports.
This session was the one and only time I ever went into the RACE option in track mode, a total of 7 laps. Every other time I used the Sport 1 option in track mode, including earlier that morning.
This was around 11am on lap 7 of the third session
Temperature was probably 60? No idea what the track temp was, but it was sunny, so I imagine warmer
Last edited by DaveTheWav3; 04-19-2019 at 02:23 AM.
You really had no reason for being in 2nd gear for that corner and you stabbed it, should have shifted to third. All of these crashes I’ve seen have been because guys are way too eager to get to full throttle and then don’t partial lift and counter steer once they start spinning tires. Can’t believe they paid out I’m going to call them for insurance my State Farm says no insurance on anybrace track surface no matter what and I pay a lot for track insurance from OnTrack.
The telemetry is wrong on the video, not sure why. I was definitely in 3rd gear there. Theres only one place I go into 2nd gear on that track and that's out of turn 3a/3b
yo... Dave... take down your vid... trying to help you boss man avoid some trouble... because it will come. Delete vid from Youtube asap
As far as his wreck location, if you study the pavement, he was not the first set of skid marks there. Must be a bit of a hop right there that gets the rear ends loose too maybe.
he is lucky it happened there and not in the trees. Blessing in disguise.
You're right, that turn is very bumpy. The car moved a lot in that turn even when you do everything right
Clear case of an overconfident driver. Need more work with throttle control- You can hear the traction control/torque management trying to save your *** in both videos.
Insurance should have never paid out on this...
I was in the Race option of Track mode. I thought that disabled all traction and stability control systems?
I was in the Race option of Track mode. I thought that disabled all traction and stability control systems?
Not entirely sure, but you can hear it kicking in when you got too hot on the throttle right before passing the VW, and you can also hear it struggling to keep you planted in the crash video as you went HAM exiting the corner before your crash. It's a very distinct sound. Motor makes a noise that sounds similar to driving over rumble strips lol
so, the reason Bishman asked you about the rear caster is because GM aligns it incorrectly from the factory. The dealer does not have the tool, and if they do, they still dont align it correctly (but 19 out of 20 dealers do not have the tool)
so, if and when you get another c7, get the dsc rear caster alignment specs on the car... you would have potentially been able to save the car right there... maybe
You got lucky... you were clearly engaged in a "speed activity" as outlined in the dec pages.. I used to be an adjuster and 9 out 10 companies would have denied the claim. Trackday insurance from NCM, Haggerty, or Lcoton is cheap and you know you're covered.
On another note... what's up with all those trees so close to the racing surface? That looks like some of the most dangerous conditions I've ever seen at at track. On the east coast we have nothing like that... you'd see far more substantial barriers and the trees would be much further away.
Hitting a tree at speed will kill you quick.
The trees are MOSTLY in areas where you wouldn't be in danger, but turn 5 at the track in the past was a little tricky, and you could end up in a barrier, or if things REALLY went bad, into the trees. They repaved the back side of the track though, so what made turn 5 tricky, the bumps, are gone, and now it's a pretty straight forward section of the track
04-18-2019, 03:39 PM
