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^^^^
Ferrari figured this out also with their "specials". Add 30HP, yank the carpet, sound deadening, etc and charge one hundred grand MORE. Then they, like Porsche, announce the number to be built, and bingo, every one is sold BEFORE they make the FIRST one. Obviously this is an over-simplification, but it works in their case. GM had the right idea with the last gen Z/28, but they didn't (to my knowledge) announce how many they would build. So, the Z/28's ended up on the discount rack.
We humans thrive on what we CAN'T have!
I remember years ago at the intro of some new Ferrari....Luca was asked how many they would make and, with a straight face, he replied: "We will make exactly 2 LESS than the market requires".
Can you imagine if, as a last hurrah for the C7, GM announced they were going to make 300 ZR1's along the lines of the GT RS Porsches, ACR VIpers or the "Challenge" Ferraris? No carpet, manual seats, no sound deadening, etc....and charge $175 grand for it. They'd sell out in a month, I bet.
^^^^
Folks that complain about the "Corvette" tax have NO idea what a marque "Tax" is....
Porsche and Ferrari WROTE THE BOOK on that deal.
The Gen1 NSX was a great car. I believe that the NSX MADE Ferrari and Lamborghini step up their game. I can imagine some Honda engineers driving a Ferrari 328 around 1987 and thinking: "THIS is the state of the art? We can make a better car than this in our sleep!"
^^^^
Ferrari figured this out also with their "specials". Add 30HP, yank the carpet, sound deadening, etc and charge one hundred grand MORE. Then they, like Porsche, announce the number to be built, and bingo, every one is sold BEFORE they make the FIRST one. Obviously this is an over-simplification, but it works in their case. GM had the right idea with the last gen Z/28, but they didn't (to my knowledge) announce how many they would build. So, the Z/28's ended up on the discount rack.
We humans thrive on what we CAN'T have!
I remember years ago at the intro of some new Ferrari....Luca was asked how many they would make and, with a straight face, he replied: "We will make exactly 2 LESS than the market requires".
Can you imagine if, as a last hurrah for the C7, GM announced they were going to make 300 ZR1's along the lines of the GT RS Porsches, ACR VIpers or the "Challenge" Ferraris? No carpet, manual seats, no sound deadening, etc....and charge $175 grand for it. They'd sell out in a month, I bet.
There you go. GM's supercars should always be "2 less than the market requires." It builds brand mystique and no one should want GM's finest sitting on a lot collecting dust because of overproduction.
+1
Porsche is a BRILLIANT company. They de-content a car and RAISE the price
They are brilliant, not only can they charge a ransom for a limited production car (911R) but they probably stash a half dozen or so away and sell them at a later date when the market decides that they are worth 5 times the amount it cost to produce. Not to mention you can't take a newer Porsches to Joe's Import Fix-It Center, as mentioned earlier about trying to find a battery, they have you by the *****. They also have scores of brand loyal customers that will buy anything with a Porsche logo. Porsche markets themselves very well. I love Porsche.
They are brilliant, not only can they charge a ransom for a limited production car (911R) but they probably stash a half dozen or so away and sell them at a later date when the market decides that they are worth 5 times the amount it cost to produce. Not to mention you can't take a newer Porsches to Joe's Import Fix-It Center, as mentioned earlier about trying to find a battery, they have you by the *****. They also have scores of brand loyal customers that will buy anything with a Porsche logo. Porsche markets themselves very well. I love Porsche.
Reminds me of Harley Davidson. You know your marketing team is good when people literally tattoo your logo on their arms.
Because Porsche is still the only sportscar in the world based upon the cheapest common car the Germans have ever known "The VW Beetle". It's also the only Sportscar in the world where the chassis is unibody construction where floppy sheets of steel are welded into a honeycomb of compartmentalized cavities that are required to maintain their structural integrity. Yet, the mindless continues to buy these inflated market compromises vs true world class sport cars that have space frames as chassis's.
Porsche is building great driver's cars, and I totally get why some of my friends are so into the brand. The company has a heritage second only to Ferrari, and it doesn't have the image problem of many other sports cars like Corvette, Lambo, etc.
That said, I do wonder what is driving this insane mark up of Porsches. GT3 are selling $100K over sticker; the GT R2 is, as others have said, many hundred K's over sticker.
You have to remember that a lot of rich guys are dumb. Exhibit A would rich kids like Eric Trump. Never mind his politics. He's dumb as a @#$@# door ****. I could see a guy like him paying $500K for a GT2.
Last year I saw a 1968 912 Targa (the 4 cylinder version of the 911) sell for $75,000. It didn't seem like too long ago that this model was considered a joke, a $3000 car at best.
I guess the world's gone crazy. Some people have too much money. Let's see how all this plays out...
The GT2 RS!? NSM! https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...-cars-sold-out
Will the Chevy be making the rounds with an A8 absolutely floored!? They've already indicated it has limited capabilities, but, it's getting the big aero? What the hell!?
The splitters and I contend All the aero switch out!
If I had a vote, I would vote against building a ZR1 vert. The ZR1 should be a serious sporting machine, not a GT car, in my opinion. I was not in favor of a Z06 vert--Z06s had a history of being hardtops, lighter weight, etc., in the C5 guise. I'd like to stay along that path.
If I had a vote, I would vote against building a ZR1 vert. The ZR1 should be a serious sporting machine, not a GT car, in my opinion. I was not in favor of a Z06 vert--Z06s had a history of being hardtops, lighter weight, etc., in the C5 guise. I'd like to stay along that path.
Some of us think the ZR1 should be more of a serious high-speed GT than a track-oriented car. And that the Z06 should be a trackday-oriented lightweight contraption. Not sure either of us got our wishes with this generation
If I had a vote, I would vote against building a ZR1 vert. The ZR1 should be a serious sporting machine, not a GT car, in my opinion. I was not in favor of a Z06 vert--Z06s had a history of being hardtops, lighter weight, etc., in the C5 guise. I'd like to stay along that path.
And no rollbar!?
But, as I was saying notice the standard splitter used with the bigger wing. As I have alone said and I am at least partially correct about, the aero switches out. The wing bracket spacing looks similar.... The smaller aero too yields a more usable and marketable car option so it's smart pool if it works out!
Originally Posted by PerKr
Some of us think the ZR1 should be more of a serious high-speed GT than a track-oriented car. And that the Z06 should be a trackday-oriented lightweight contraption. Not sure either of us got our wishes with this generation
That makes total sense, everything actually being equal, but, that's not the status quo! Ask Tadge!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 11-17-2017 at 06:44 AM.
Gt2rs is the record holder for fastest lap arpund the ring ever. Chevy didnt even release the time for the z06 lol im not holding my breath on the ZR1 either. Dont compare a vette to a 911.
R u kidding when the Pcar as tested was 325,000 and the ZR1 will be what a tick under 150,000? If that doesnt warrant a comparison telative to performance what does?
Perhaps wait for that Ringtime before you quantify an ending car platform! Could be interesting!
Perhaps they are counting on its exclusivity to limit their exposure to its high RPM engine wear?
Perhaps some ZR1 type cooling, body, and aero calibrations will be made available for the ZO6 guys?
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 11-17-2017 at 08:34 PM.
Marketing, Branding, Sales Models, and Image.. and the grass is always greener..
Many good inputs as of last 20+ posts on this thread.
I also think Porsche sales model to keep pushing limited edition “specials” is a clever way to boost sales at very good margins leveraging brand.
But unlike others if I look at this from a “Car guy” perspective I recognized there is a great deal of financialization with cars as well and many confuse quality and value with purported demand and marketing/branding.
I am ready to bet (based on what I see where I live) that the vast majority of those 1000 GT2 RS will end up in a garage maybe clocking 500/800 miles a year before it ends up for sale on the web. Some will hit the track circuit with a big budget for frequent oil changes, replace this/replace that to keep the thing going..
The rest end up as “trophy” cars in garages and car shows and a very few will undergo regular wear and tear to tell the real reliability deal.
I also bet you Porsche engineers know this as well…
Ferrari also.. the limited number game.. yes, true Luca di Montezemolo stating “we will make exactly 2 less that market requires” topping it off with “in 2014 we will make less cars to safeguard brand and exclusivity”
Turns out many analysts busted him out for flipping things around as they knew what Luca knew and that is sales channels were signaling less demand (Ferraris are first ordered and then made..) and Luca was cleverly adjusting and masking that reality.
Soon after FCA CEO Marchionne publicly called him out and Luca was gone! And so much for the limited numbers game..
The grass is greener..
Take a look at these sales stats since 2014 to date. 2014 ..the year Chevrolet introduces the new C7 and Porsche introduces the new 911):
C7 (6 models) vs new 911 (23 models!!)
118,399 vs 36426
This is a 3.5x factor in favor of the C7 so obviously they too must have done something right?
Finally, I too leave you with this anecdotal video (you tube I believe)
Car and Driver discussing C7 with Tadge..
C&D: .. interior improvements yes maybe still not at 911 level..…
Tadge: Smiles.., yes I believe 911 offers 6 different styles of ***** for the shifter but we have a different focus..for example the C7 at 1000 RPM (idle) has already more torque than the 911 peak torque..
Will see...allegedly Chevrolet wants to sell 3000 ZR1s a year?.. so we are looking at that 3x+ factor vs 911 GT2 RS again.. or maybe more since the GT2 RS is 1000 full stop and not a year?
To me the “car guy” this tells me that customers still prefer more torque that **** shifter styles..?
I think Rikhek said it best on here, when comparing the ZR1 to the GT2RS or the lambo, ferrari crowd etc. Those cars are all not a lot of car for the money when compared to the ZR1 ( or C7 Z06 for that matter). But hey, if one wants to **** their money away on those cars, have at it. Those cars are not any better, just a whole lot MORE expensive.
Looking at the square (snap in) LG lookalike front fascia corner vents on the GT2 RS vs the beautifully integrated state of the art front fascia of the ZR1 should be a warning to any Porschephile. How can any logical thinking Porsche enthusiasts not see the cheap solution that Porsche threw at their buyers.
11-16-2017, 11:54 AM
They've already indicated it has limited capabilities, but, it's getting the big aero? What the hell!?
