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How many years do you expect the ZR1 to be produced?

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How many years do you expect the ZR1 to be produced?

Old 11-12-2017, 10:07 PM
  #21  
pkincy
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Guesses? It appears that the key factor is whether the ME is a C8 or an entirely different car. Say G1 of the ME. I expect the ME in 20 or 21. If it is the C8 than likely only one long 18 month model year for the ZR1. If the ME is G1 of a new car entirely and the C8 is a never? or something like a 22 or 23 than you get the ZR1 for as many years as the C7 continues. Frankly given its drop off in sales in 17 and the short 18 my I expect that the C8 needs to be out soonest, unless GM is gonna produce enough MEs to keep BG going on the ME, cause the C7 is basically dying on the vine.
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Old 11-12-2017, 11:07 PM
  #22  
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I am going to say 1.5 (extended 2019 MY) I believe 2019 is the end of the C7 generation. 2020 MY will bring in the ME Corvette.
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Old 11-13-2017, 07:18 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Speednet View Post
What do you think the chances are that GM will do something radical and create two separate lines of Corvette -- a front engine and a mid engine line? Everyone assumes the ME car will become the C8, but I have a hard time imagining that GM will risk everything on the ME. Perhaps there will continue to be Corvette, a front-engine car, and a new Zora, a mid-engine car.
The C7/C8 and the Mid-Engine are going to co-exist.

The question is what models will be available when.

Way back in 2013 the C7 was a 6 year model run (2014-2019). Somewhere in 2015 when the Grand Sport first showed up, it was extended to 2020, and with the ZR1 being pushed from a 2018 to a 2019 its possible that the C7 will get pushed to 2021.

Like the C6, the ZR1 came out in 2009, the 2012 was original supposed to be the C7 debut (the 100 year centennial edition was originally going to be applied to the C7), then the plan was to do the 60th anniversary in 2013 as the debut. But the bankruptcy killed both those plans. The C7 was delayed twice (and frankly almost cancelled).

So the real question is what models will exist during the overlap, and what models will the C8 have.

Originally the mid-engine was just a halo car, high technology, high horsepower tour de force. It uses a lot of the CT6 and current C7 in terms of chassis design (aluminum construction, double wishbone, hallow castings). But it seems to make the car more "profitable" and keep it from being cancelled a lower trim version was created.

Based on the things I hear, the ME will now be a 2020 which is the THIRD delay in the platform, it was way back when a 2017, then a 2019, and now the current 2020. This lower variant will use the ZR1 motor, which may mean that while the C7 continues into 2020 that the ZR1 variant wont.

However since the C8 is coming out in 2021 (as you won't release the C8 and the ME at the same time), I can now imagine them moving the ZR1 to end with the production of the C7 (so the ME would launch ONLY with the hi-po version and then the low-end version would come out a model year later).

The problem here is that it's not engineering's decisions, its marketing. My information comes from engineering, and I know the technology and the product, but engineering is mostly kept in the dark about timing except what they need to know to deliver parts. This is why you see people like JVP and Jag disagree with me from time to time. I think they are getting much more information from marketing people, or higher ups where I'm getting my information on the "back-end" from lower level engineers who don't have the whole picture (And therefore I have to piece multiple sources together to get a cohesive picture). However I'm untrusting of the marketing folks and the higher ups, which is why I just don't buy any information that comes from those sources, until I hear it thru my back channels in engineering.
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Old 11-13-2017, 07:23 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Steven Bell View Post
^^^ This......


You guys need to list to jvp and Jagamajajaran. They are the two most well-connected people on this forum....even more so than any dealer posting here.
I'm more connected than the dealers so that isn't hard. Dealers know marketing folks, which as I'll get to is next to meaningless.

The issue with Jag and JVP (as I said in my other post) is can you REALLY trust the higher ups and marketing guys who they are talking to? I know that the information coming from engineering isn't BS (they don't BS) but marketing changes things on a whim, as does upper management (and frankly they are in the business of generating hype without showing their hand).

While slower, and not entirely accurate (due to lack of the whole picture), the backside information coming out of engineers who other engineers know is much better and more reliable because it's unfiltered and raw data not pre-packaged stuff which may or may not be total BS.

So lots of you can believe what you want, but digging around the lower levels of engineering is where you can get a lot of info.

Last edited by LT1 Z51; 11-13-2017 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 11-13-2017, 07:37 AM
  #25  
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For example, I head the Mid-Engine will have tubular headers on the DOHC and 4 square rear exhaust ports.

We shall see if that comes to pass, but people tell me what they tell me.
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Old 11-13-2017, 07:43 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by LT1 Z51 View Post
For example, I head the Mid-Engine will have tubular headers on the DOHC and 4 square rear exhaust ports.

We shall see if that comes to pass, but people tell me what they tell me.
I can hear the cries of anguish now... bring back round exhaust tips!
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Old 11-13-2017, 08:08 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by LT1 Z51 View Post
The issue with Jag and JVP (as I said in my other post) is can you REALLY trust the higher ups and marketing guys who they are talking to?
Woah there. Take it easy on who you're calling out. I'm not sure you have any idea the folks Jeremy and I know and talk to on a regular basis. I can assure you they're not "marketing folks". At all.

My guess on the length of time the car is running for has nothing to do with any engineering knowledge I have. It's more of a personal thing, and I'll leave it at that. I'll be perfectly happy if I'm wrong with my forecast.
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Old 11-13-2017, 08:19 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by jvp View Post
Woah there. Take it easy on who you're calling out. I'm not sure you have any idea the folks Jeremy and I know and talk to on a regular basis. I can assure you they're not "marketing folks". At all.

My guess on the length of time the car is running for has nothing to do with any engineering knowledge I have. It's more of a personal thing, and I'll leave it at that. I'll be perfectly happy if I'm wrong with my forecast.
I don't, but you guys won't say and therefore I will make assumptions.

It's unlikely engineering since you know you don't live in Michigan, unless you have old friends here (and even then you'd need more than on or two old friends to piece together large amounts of knowledge). Marketing, higher ups, dealers, sales, service, and even manufacturing to me are all less trusted sources that engineering. Not because they don't know, but because they are motivated by other factors.

So unless you guys have low level engineering contacts, my statements stand. I just don't trust anyone but those people.
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Old 11-13-2017, 08:20 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Speednet View Post
What do you think the chances are that GM will do something radical and create two separate lines of Corvette -- a front engine and a mid engine line?
This requires Corvette to become an "brand". Not so much a brand as they call it today (which is a misnomer internally at GM). More so like a brand within GM. Chevy, Cadillac, GMC, Corvette. That sort of thing.

It's clear that Corvette wants to be its own brand. No question. The marketing folks at Chevy will likely throw temper tantrums internally if that happens. "Don't take our halo away!"

Part of me still isn't convinced this ME is going to be a thing for Corvette. A rear-mid car will instantly lower the car's overall bandwidth. Storage space goes to hell. Daily usability also takes quite a bit of a hit. These are things that Corvette has been exceptional at, while at the same time, obliterating competitors on the race track. A rear-mid changes all of that significantly.

So that means the team has accepted the fact that the car can no longer be the same "every-day" car that it is today. Or they're going to run two entirely different chassis during a generation, which is also something they've never done before.

Cadillac, on the other hand, could use a rear-mid car, if they want to compete with the Audi R8. That seems a fools errand to me, but there ya go.
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Old 11-13-2017, 08:22 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by LT1 Z51 View Post
I don't, but you guys won't say and therefore I will make assumptions.
To quote the bad guy from Under Siege 2:

"Assumptions are the mother of all f*** ups."

I can assure you we know guys on the engineering team. Jeremy and I know the same guy, and I know a few others. Neither of us has ever said otherwise when asked.
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:10 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by jvp View Post
To quote the bad guy from Under Siege 2:

"Assumptions are the mother of all f*** ups."

I can assure you we know guys on the engineering team. Jeremy and I know the same guy, and I know a few others. Neither of us has ever said otherwise when asked.
Guess that's fair.

So we'll see. I talked to one of my guys yesterday, but like I said I'm sometimes a little behind due to how my information flows.

So far I still hear two cars, C8 is "basically a C7 refresh" and the ME is a unique car. Timing stuff is harder to nail down, since that info comes to me based on part changes, not based on actual people who know timing. Based on the part flow, I get the model years I mention.
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:43 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by roadbike56 View Post
I thought I had a good answer, then I read your post. I "assumed" the ME would be priced with in the Z06/ZR1 price range or lower. But you make a good point. If the ME starts out with a huge price, then the ZR1 may be around for another 3 years. If it's priced close to the ZR-1 or even the Z06, then the ZR1 will have only one year in my opinion. If the ME is the C8 then just one more year. Lots of scenerios. I still believe the C7 will be here for three more years including the 2019 year. But I'm not sure about the top end C7 cars. All depends on the price of the ME.
Think 911, with models ranging from $100 to over $200K. That has been a very successful model.

I generally don't play guessing games, but if ME is the next C8, then it would be logical to emulate the successful formula of it's closest price competitor.
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