C7 ZR1 or Tesla Coupe
03-20-2018, 08:18 PM
#123
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
Posts: 22,243
Received 5,428 Likes
on
2,268 Posts
Will be interesting to see if Tesla makes it.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ing-a-crucible
Jim Chanos, the short seller famous for betting against Enron, has said he thinks Tesla Inc.’s stock is “worthless.” Chanos got some new evidence this week that may support his short sales against Elon Musk’s car company. A string of executives have headed for the exits, including a surprising number from the company’s finance team, as Tesla is dogged by questions about whether it can meet its production targets.
The chief financial officer left abruptly last year in a curious turn of events, where he was replaced by his predecessor: Deepak Ahuja served as Tesla’s CFO from 2008 to 2015 and then took over the job again in March 2017, according to his LinkedIn. Then late last year, one of Tesla’s audit committee members, Steve Jurvetson, went on leave from the board (following accusations of misconduct, which he has denied). The vice president of business development and director of battery technology both left in the past year. Jon McNeill, one of Tesla’s most senior executives, went to take the chief operating officer job at Lyft Inc. last month. Eric Branderiz, Tesla’s chief accounting officer, departed last week. And Bloomberg reported this week that Susan Repo, the corporate treasurer and vice president of finance, is out.
The press has rightly been focused on trying to figure out how badly Tesla will miss its production targets for the all-important Model 3 electric sedan. After all, actually building cars is pretty important to Tesla’s business.
Bloomberg built a Tesla Model 3 Tracker. The data show Tesla is producing approximately 737 cars a week. In July, Tesla predicted that it would produce 5,000 Model 3s a week by the end of 2017. Oops.
Tesla has steadily rolled back its production targets and still looks like it will be behind schedule. According to Bloomberg’s analysis, Tesla Model 3 output has actually slowed from February when it was producing something like 936 Model 3s a week. My colleague Dana Hull reported that Tesla temporarily suspended production in late February, potentially explaining the slowdown.
CNBC reported Wednesday that many of the vehicles coming off Tesla’s assembly line required more work. One employee estimated that “40 percent of the parts made or received at its Fremont factor require work,” the article said. Some investors surely found Tesla’s response to the article to be laughable. The company’s statement reads, “In what world is the pursuit of perfection looked down on? Not one we want to live in.”
Ah yes, a story about how Tesla is producing cars in an inefficient fashion is really about a company with high standards.
On Thursday, the Wall Street Journal declared it “Tesla’s Make-Or-Break Moment.” That article rightly points out that Tesla had $3.4 billion of cash at the end of 2017 and that last year it burned $1 billion a quarter. Do the math, and Tesla either needs to generate more revenue or raise more money soon.
The Journal’s story observes that Tesla has a so-called Z-Score (a measure of a company’s financial security) of 1.26. “Any company with a score below 1.8 is considered distressed by many investors. A score of 1.0 or lower suggests bankruptcy is likely within two years,” Tim Higgins and Susan Pulliam write.
The financial markets have given Tesla a long leash, but the evidence against the viability of its business continues to mount. About 23 percent of publicly traded Tesla stock is being used to bet against the automaker. That’s a lot of short sellers.
Of course, Chanos has been warning against Tesla since at least October 2016. “The whole thing is just sort of this mélange of publicly traded and privately traded science projects gone awry. So we’ll see how it works out,” he said at the time. Despite his years-long bets against the company, the stock has been climbing. The Tesla Hype Train keeps going.
But I have to end this piece with a necessary caveat. Despite cash flow concerns, Musk’s companies have generally worked out for investors. Peter Thiel issued what has become a sort of Silicon Valley koan: “Never bet against Elon.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ing-a-crucible
Jim Chanos, the short seller famous for betting against Enron, has said he thinks Tesla Inc.’s stock is “worthless.” Chanos got some new evidence this week that may support his short sales against Elon Musk’s car company. A string of executives have headed for the exits, including a surprising number from the company’s finance team, as Tesla is dogged by questions about whether it can meet its production targets.
The chief financial officer left abruptly last year in a curious turn of events, where he was replaced by his predecessor: Deepak Ahuja served as Tesla’s CFO from 2008 to 2015 and then took over the job again in March 2017, according to his LinkedIn. Then late last year, one of Tesla’s audit committee members, Steve Jurvetson, went on leave from the board (following accusations of misconduct, which he has denied). The vice president of business development and director of battery technology both left in the past year. Jon McNeill, one of Tesla’s most senior executives, went to take the chief operating officer job at Lyft Inc. last month. Eric Branderiz, Tesla’s chief accounting officer, departed last week. And Bloomberg reported this week that Susan Repo, the corporate treasurer and vice president of finance, is out.
The press has rightly been focused on trying to figure out how badly Tesla will miss its production targets for the all-important Model 3 electric sedan. After all, actually building cars is pretty important to Tesla’s business.
Bloomberg built a Tesla Model 3 Tracker. The data show Tesla is producing approximately 737 cars a week. In July, Tesla predicted that it would produce 5,000 Model 3s a week by the end of 2017. Oops.
Tesla has steadily rolled back its production targets and still looks like it will be behind schedule. According to Bloomberg’s analysis, Tesla Model 3 output has actually slowed from February when it was producing something like 936 Model 3s a week. My colleague Dana Hull reported that Tesla temporarily suspended production in late February, potentially explaining the slowdown.
CNBC reported Wednesday that many of the vehicles coming off Tesla’s assembly line required more work. One employee estimated that “40 percent of the parts made or received at its Fremont factor require work,” the article said. Some investors surely found Tesla’s response to the article to be laughable. The company’s statement reads, “In what world is the pursuit of perfection looked down on? Not one we want to live in.”
Ah yes, a story about how Tesla is producing cars in an inefficient fashion is really about a company with high standards.
On Thursday, the Wall Street Journal declared it “Tesla’s Make-Or-Break Moment.” That article rightly points out that Tesla had $3.4 billion of cash at the end of 2017 and that last year it burned $1 billion a quarter. Do the math, and Tesla either needs to generate more revenue or raise more money soon.
The Journal’s story observes that Tesla has a so-called Z-Score (a measure of a company’s financial security) of 1.26. “Any company with a score below 1.8 is considered distressed by many investors. A score of 1.0 or lower suggests bankruptcy is likely within two years,” Tim Higgins and Susan Pulliam write.
The financial markets have given Tesla a long leash, but the evidence against the viability of its business continues to mount. About 23 percent of publicly traded Tesla stock is being used to bet against the automaker. That’s a lot of short sellers.
Of course, Chanos has been warning against Tesla since at least October 2016. “The whole thing is just sort of this mélange of publicly traded and privately traded science projects gone awry. So we’ll see how it works out,” he said at the time. Despite his years-long bets against the company, the stock has been climbing. The Tesla Hype Train keeps going.
But I have to end this piece with a necessary caveat. Despite cash flow concerns, Musk’s companies have generally worked out for investors. Peter Thiel issued what has become a sort of Silicon Valley koan: “Never bet against Elon.”
Last edited by OnPoint; 03-20-2018 at 08:20 PM.
03-21-2018, 01:49 AM
#124
Whether or not Elon Musk's Tesla continues as is is almost beside the point.
If there is a bankruptcy, the company and its TECHNOLOGY will have plenty of buyers.
The kind of buyers who know how to build cars...
If there is a bankruptcy, the company and its TECHNOLOGY will have plenty of buyers.
The kind of buyers who know how to build cars...
The following users liked this post:
JerriVette (03-21-2018)
03-21-2018, 03:10 AM
#125
Race Director
The tesla isn't out yet and the zr1 is.
Once the tesla supercar comes out it will cost amount more than a zr1..
Like 50 percent more and we don't even have actual performance numbers yet of the production vehicles..
Well need a track head to head when they both are available for the public and the auto rags..
I think Ferrari and Lamborghini have more at stake with the tesla supercar...then corvettes...even the zr1..
Once the tesla supercar comes out it will cost amount more than a zr1..
Like 50 percent more and we don't even have actual performance numbers yet of the production vehicles..
Well need a track head to head when they both are available for the public and the auto rags..
I think Ferrari and Lamborghini have more at stake with the tesla supercar...then corvettes...even the zr1..
03-21-2018, 09:16 AM
#126
Moderator
Member Since: Jul 2005
Location: West MI
Posts: 27,698
Received 3,621 Likes
on
1,740 Posts
CF Banner Relay Captain
West MI & JAX/NE Florida
Events Coordinator
St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17, '21
UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM just say no to electric cars. I don't care how fast they proclaim to be.
ZR1 FTW
ZR1 FTW
03-21-2018, 10:21 AM
#127
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
Posts: 22,243
Received 5,428 Likes
on
2,268 Posts
03-21-2018, 10:48 AM
#128
Le Mans Master
Look out! ;)
https://youtu.be/M4icQIuldZU
Not yet!
https://electrek.co/2018/03/20/porsche-all-electric-mission-e-tesla-model-augmented-reality/
Not yet!
https://electrek.co/2018/03/20/porsche-all-electric-mission-e-tesla-model-augmented-reality/
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 03-21-2018 at 10:52 AM.
03-21-2018, 11:20 AM
#129
I prefer my cars to burn liquified dinosaurs and make beautiful sounds when I put the hammer down. I wont be buying an electric car until I am forced to due to fuel availability, etc. Assuming I live long enough to see the internal combustion engine phased out.
As far as performance, there is no comparison at this point. Until the Tesla Roadster is produced and benchmarked it is purely speculation, and exaggerated IMO.
As far as performance, there is no comparison at this point. Until the Tesla Roadster is produced and benchmarked it is purely speculation, and exaggerated IMO.
03-21-2018, 01:59 PM
#130
The only thing they have in common is 4 wheels...
Sorry, I missed it.
The following users liked this post:
JerriVette (03-21-2018)
03-21-2018, 02:25 PM
#131
You yokels crack me up. Don't people of this demographic typically pound their chest in vociferous support of "buying American?" I can't remember the last time an American company had so many Americans hoot'n and holler'n for its demise.
03-21-2018, 03:21 PM
#132
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
Posts: 22,243
Received 5,428 Likes
on
2,268 Posts
But, please, do feel free to forge ahead in imperious fashion yet some more.
03-21-2018, 03:26 PM
#133
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jan 2009
Location: High Mountains of New Mexico
Posts: 3,266
Received 1,390 Likes
on
682 Posts
2023 C2 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2021 C2 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2015 C3 of the Year Finalist
Too bad, let me remedy that situation: I hope anything and everything #MuskCharlatan is involved with goes bankrupt and he is sued by many people, including the government. How's that?
03-21-2018, 03:51 PM
#134
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
Posts: 22,243
Received 5,428 Likes
on
2,268 Posts
Apparently he takes it as a personal affront if anybody looks at Tesla's current glide path and wonders out loud if it's sustainable.
03-21-2018, 04:19 PM
#135
Which, of course, is downright stupid.
Anyone who thinks burning all of the fossil fuel on this planet is a necessity, needs to have their head examined.
As for Tesla, the problem is Production, not the product itself.
It's the one element Musk significantly underestimated.
The good thing is it is a problem that can be cured.
EM needs to stop futzing around with his rocket ship and focus on the automotive end of his business.
The following users liked this post:
phantasms (03-13-2019)
03-21-2018, 04:27 PM
#136
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
Posts: 22,243
Received 5,428 Likes
on
2,268 Posts
There are quite a few on this forum who want to see EVs fail.
Which, of course, is downright stupid.
Anyone who thinks burning all of the fossil fuel on this planet is a necessity, needs to have their head examined.
As for Tesla, the problem is Production, not the product itself.
It's the one element Musk significantly underestimated.
The good thing is it is a problem that can be cured.
EM needs to stop futzing around with his rocket ship and focus on the automotive end of his business.
Which, of course, is downright stupid.
Anyone who thinks burning all of the fossil fuel on this planet is a necessity, needs to have their head examined.
As for Tesla, the problem is Production, not the product itself.
It's the one element Musk significantly underestimated.
The good thing is it is a problem that can be cured.
EM needs to stop futzing around with his rocket ship and focus on the automotive end of his business.
Yeah I've seen the opponents of EVs. Their existence had nothing to do with the thread content to this point.
And I agree - it's obvious the productions issues need remedied. And they may very well be. Musk is running against the cash burn clock, though.
His rocket exploits are pretty damned impressive. And frankly his auto innovation has been game changing. Now, it's a matter of if he survives. Which based on public info, is far from a slam dunk.
Last edited by OnPoint; 03-21-2018 at 04:28 PM.
03-21-2018, 07:32 PM
#137
Le Mans Master
There are quite a few on this forum who want to see EVs fail.
Which, of course, is downright stupid.
Anyone who thinks burning all of the fossil fuel on this planet is a necessity, needs to have their head examined.
As for Tesla, the problem is Production, not the product itself.
It's the one element Musk significantly underestimated.
The good thing is it is a problem that can be cured.
EM needs to stop futzing around with his rocket ship and focus on the automotive end of his business.
Which, of course, is downright stupid.
Anyone who thinks burning all of the fossil fuel on this planet is a necessity, needs to have their head examined.
As for Tesla, the problem is Production, not the product itself.
It's the one element Musk significantly underestimated.
The good thing is it is a problem that can be cured.
EM needs to stop futzing around with his rocket ship and focus on the automotive end of his business.
03-21-2018, 08:57 PM
#138
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Posts: 40,078
Received 8,917 Likes
on
5,327 Posts
The Tesla is quoted as quicker and faster except when it comes to the first 110 degree corner. There are no lap times stated. Acceleration isn't a complete basis for performance comparison since cars do have to go around corners. The Tesla falls into the Dodge category quick in a straight line not so good when it comes to turning. How fast will it be when it is buried up to its axles in dirt/grass/sand/gravel at the mid point of the first turn.
Bill
Bill
03-21-2018, 11:11 PM
#139
The Tesla is quoted as quicker and faster except when it comes to the first 110 degree corner. There are no lap times stated. Acceleration isn't a complete basis for performance comparison since cars do have to go around corners. The Tesla falls into the Dodge category quick in a straight line not so good when it comes to turning. How fast will it be when it is buried up to its axles in dirt/grass/sand/gravel at the mid point of the first turn.
Bill
Bill
03-21-2018, 11:45 PM
#140
Race Director
Hand built tesla roadsters do allievate the production issues that tesla has encountered with its first mass market vehicle model 3.
Remember the 500.000 reservations in 2016 encouraged tesla to try and move the original production date of the fourth quarter of 2018 to third quarter 2017 by unsuccessfully skipping a traditional aspect of preproduction runs of assembly trials which blew up his effort to bring the model 3 to market early.
No guts no glory...his gamble didn't pan out as hoped.
A 250 grand supercar will be hand assembled so the delay won't be an issue. Imo
I believe the low center of gravity of tesla s battery platform design could offer excellent.handling.
The issue will be battery overheat that plagued earlier tesla models on road course use.
Supposedly the next generation tesla battery alleviates that overheat concern.
Only an actual track test will prove or disprove these claims.
Could be a whole new world of performance vehicles if the tesla supercar pans out.
Remember the 500.000 reservations in 2016 encouraged tesla to try and move the original production date of the fourth quarter of 2018 to third quarter 2017 by unsuccessfully skipping a traditional aspect of preproduction runs of assembly trials which blew up his effort to bring the model 3 to market early.
No guts no glory...his gamble didn't pan out as hoped.
A 250 grand supercar will be hand assembled so the delay won't be an issue. Imo
I believe the low center of gravity of tesla s battery platform design could offer excellent.handling.
The issue will be battery overheat that plagued earlier tesla models on road course use.
Supposedly the next generation tesla battery alleviates that overheat concern.
Only an actual track test will prove or disprove these claims.
Could be a whole new world of performance vehicles if the tesla supercar pans out.
