Juechter press comments on C7 ZR1 handling..
12-02-2017, 02:12 PM
#42
Race Director
I don't know what you guys are whining about.....
I have a BASE suspension CONVERTIBLE STINGRAY...WHAT A POS!
But at least it's a MANUAL
I have a BASE suspension CONVERTIBLE STINGRAY...WHAT A POS!
But at least it's a MANUAL
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I brake for nothing (12-05-2017),
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12-02-2017, 02:44 PM
#43
Drifting
12-02-2017, 05:31 PM
#44
I'm not sensitive... I'm just pointing out his statement is odd. The zr1 is not NA, and it has the zillion heat exchanges and a supercharger just like z06 but yet in his statement he claims A) GS is best handling car, and B) that zr1 somehow more related to GS handling than z06
What that says to me, personally, is he does not feel the z06 suspension was ever tuned perfect for the supercharged setup with that product.. but now with the zr1, GM put the perfect suspension tuning mated for the zr1 product.
In other words, it sounds kind of like saying... Ya GS was best handling car and we really nailed the overall product for that. Z06 on the other hand, we just shoved bigger HP and didn't spend as much time trying to tune the chassis to handle that extra power. Now, here, we have the zr1 where we HAVE spent a lot of effort tuning the zr1 product and it's much more refined, a la the GS product.
It implies to me at least, that their efforts to tune the z06 handling from factory were not as successful as they are now with the zr1. And that would make me mad hearing that if I was a c7z owner. It implies they rushed the c7z product IMO. And if that was the case, they could have updated the c7z to have an updated suspension tuning similar to how they did with c5z in 2004 vs 01/02/03
I think it was one of the reviews the motor trend guys did of the c7z where they said they loved the power but it didn't seem like the chassis was tuned to adequately handle it on a track; it was very squirrelly. That review lined up with what I am getting from tadges comments here
And my last point I'll make - even if the c7GS IS the best handling car out of the c7 lineup, fine, it weighs less and etc then ya makes sense. However, to draw a similarity to it with the zr1 rather than referencing the z06 in and of itself implies the z06 handling alone is inferior to the zr1, regardless of HP. Historically the z06 has always been marketed as THE TRACK CAR, and this statement implies tadge believes the GS is the track car to buy. So if the z06 is marketed as THE TRACK CAR, I would assume it's suspension tuning should be on par with the zr1's tuning.
Get what I'm saying?
I just created the post to point out his comments on the handling because I thought it was strange. If you guys happen to think it's not a big deal then whatever, who cares.
From my seat, it just seems like c7z will go down in history as bastardized z06; it did not live up to the c5z and c6z products relative to their own respective time periods and markets they were sold in. It just seems like GM threw a supercharger on the c7z, tuned the chassis a little and threw it out the door to market. Doesn't feel as refined of a product as the c5z and c6z were in their respective time periods of sale.
What that says to me, personally, is he does not feel the z06 suspension was ever tuned perfect for the supercharged setup with that product.. but now with the zr1, GM put the perfect suspension tuning mated for the zr1 product.
In other words, it sounds kind of like saying... Ya GS was best handling car and we really nailed the overall product for that. Z06 on the other hand, we just shoved bigger HP and didn't spend as much time trying to tune the chassis to handle that extra power. Now, here, we have the zr1 where we HAVE spent a lot of effort tuning the zr1 product and it's much more refined, a la the GS product.
It implies to me at least, that their efforts to tune the z06 handling from factory were not as successful as they are now with the zr1. And that would make me mad hearing that if I was a c7z owner. It implies they rushed the c7z product IMO. And if that was the case, they could have updated the c7z to have an updated suspension tuning similar to how they did with c5z in 2004 vs 01/02/03
I think it was one of the reviews the motor trend guys did of the c7z where they said they loved the power but it didn't seem like the chassis was tuned to adequately handle it on a track; it was very squirrelly. That review lined up with what I am getting from tadges comments here
And my last point I'll make - even if the c7GS IS the best handling car out of the c7 lineup, fine, it weighs less and etc then ya makes sense. However, to draw a similarity to it with the zr1 rather than referencing the z06 in and of itself implies the z06 handling alone is inferior to the zr1, regardless of HP. Historically the z06 has always been marketed as THE TRACK CAR, and this statement implies tadge believes the GS is the track car to buy. So if the z06 is marketed as THE TRACK CAR, I would assume it's suspension tuning should be on par with the zr1's tuning.
Get what I'm saying?
I just created the post to point out his comments on the handling because I thought it was strange. If you guys happen to think it's not a big deal then whatever, who cares.
From my seat, it just seems like c7z will go down in history as bastardized z06; it did not live up to the c5z and c6z products relative to their own respective time periods and markets they were sold in. It just seems like GM threw a supercharger on the c7z, tuned the chassis a little and threw it out the door to market. Doesn't feel as refined of a product as the c5z and c6z were in their respective time periods of sale.
The Z06 probably has a pretty good ride, right? I never hear any complaints about the ride. I haven't driven one yet, so I'll have to take other people's word on that. I'm going to guess that the ZR1 is going to have a harsher ride as a compromise to outhandle the Z06 and the GS. It's just a matter of priorities: if the ride is REALLY important, you wouldn't buy a Corvette, you would buy a Cadillac or a Lincoln.
If the ultimate lap time were your primary focus, maybe you would buy a race car that can't even be driven on the street.
The ZR1 is going to be a little more focused on lap times than the Z06, maybe even a lot more. Possibly the majority of Z drivers wouldn't want a ZR1 because it is more radical than they are looking for. We will see, but what Tadge is saying is not a slap at the Z06.
A lot of it has to do with bushings. Soft bushings give a comfortable ride but imprecise handling. Hard bushings give more precise handling, but you start feeling expansion strips and pebbles. Race cars don't have bushing at all, and you get the idea.
12-02-2017, 05:42 PM
#45
Le Mans Master
Tadge addressed this!
If you have read the write up about the Camaro ZL1 1LE, you probably will remember that the testers commented on how uncomfortable the ride is compared to the standard ZL1. GM placed the primary emphasis on low lap times and the ride suffered.
The Z06 probably has a pretty good ride, right? I never hear any complaints about the ride. I haven't driven one yet, so I'll have to take other people's word on that. I'm going to guess that the ZR1 is going to have a harsher ride as a compromise to outhandle the Z06 and the GS. It's just a matter of priorities: if the ride is REALLY important, you wouldn't buy a Corvette, you would buy a Cadillac or a Lincoln.
If the ultimate lap time were your primary focus, maybe you would buy a race car that can't even be driven on the street.
The ZR1 is going to be a little more focused on lap times than the Z06, maybe even a lot more. Possibly the majority of Z drivers wouldn't want a ZR1 because it is more radical than they are looking for. We will see, but what Tadge is saying is not a slap at the Z06.
A lot of it has to do with bushings. Soft bushings give a comfortable ride but imprecise handling. Hard bushings give more precise handling, but you start feeling expansion strips and pebbles. Race cars don't have bushing at all, and you get the idea.
The Z06 probably has a pretty good ride, right? I never hear any complaints about the ride. I haven't driven one yet, so I'll have to take other people's word on that. I'm going to guess that the ZR1 is going to have a harsher ride as a compromise to outhandle the Z06 and the GS. It's just a matter of priorities: if the ride is REALLY important, you wouldn't buy a Corvette, you would buy a Cadillac or a Lincoln.
If the ultimate lap time were your primary focus, maybe you would buy a race car that can't even be driven on the street.
The ZR1 is going to be a little more focused on lap times than the Z06, maybe even a lot more. Possibly the majority of Z drivers wouldn't want a ZR1 because it is more radical than they are looking for. We will see, but what Tadge is saying is not a slap at the Z06.
A lot of it has to do with bushings. Soft bushings give a comfortable ride but imprecise handling. Hard bushings give more precise handling, but you start feeling expansion strips and pebbles. Race cars don't have bushing at all, and you get the idea.
Not to mention The Rings bumps, a nightmare for a 911, were variably shocked in a heavier car and dealt with well by the GT2 RS.
An even heavier 1LE had less options!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 12-02-2017 at 05:47 PM.
12-02-2017, 06:30 PM
#46
Team Owner
If you have read the write up about the Camaro ZL1 1LE, you probably will remember that the testers commented on how uncomfortable the ride is compared to the standard ZL1. GM placed the primary emphasis on low lap times and the ride suffered.
The Z06 probably has a pretty good ride, right? I never hear any complaints about the ride. I haven't driven one yet, so I'll have to take other people's word on that. I'm going to guess that the ZR1 is going to have a harsher ride as a compromise to outhandle the Z06 and the GS. It's just a matter of priorities: if the ride is REALLY important, you wouldn't buy a Corvette, you would buy a Cadillac or a Lincoln.
If the ultimate lap time were your primary focus, maybe you would buy a race car that can't even be driven on the street.
The ZR1 is going to be a little more focused on lap times than the Z06, maybe even a lot more. Possibly the majority of Z drivers wouldn't want a ZR1 because it is more radical than they are looking for. We will see, but what Tadge is saying is not a slap at the Z06.
A lot of it has to do with bushings. Soft bushings give a comfortable ride but imprecise handling. Hard bushings give more precise handling, but you start feeling expansion strips and pebbles. Race cars don't have bushing at all, and you get the idea.
The Z06 probably has a pretty good ride, right? I never hear any complaints about the ride. I haven't driven one yet, so I'll have to take other people's word on that. I'm going to guess that the ZR1 is going to have a harsher ride as a compromise to outhandle the Z06 and the GS. It's just a matter of priorities: if the ride is REALLY important, you wouldn't buy a Corvette, you would buy a Cadillac or a Lincoln.
If the ultimate lap time were your primary focus, maybe you would buy a race car that can't even be driven on the street.
The ZR1 is going to be a little more focused on lap times than the Z06, maybe even a lot more. Possibly the majority of Z drivers wouldn't want a ZR1 because it is more radical than they are looking for. We will see, but what Tadge is saying is not a slap at the Z06.
A lot of it has to do with bushings. Soft bushings give a comfortable ride but imprecise handling. Hard bushings give more precise handling, but you start feeling expansion strips and pebbles. Race cars don't have bushing at all, and you get the idea.
Then he bought a C7 Z06 last summer, and a week later he and his wife did a two week road trip in it. When he got back home, he sold the C7 Z06 because(in his words) "it was the worse riding Corvette he's ever owned".
Presently he doesn't own a Corvette. I'm waiting to see if he gets a C7 ZR1. He, unlike me, can afford to buy one and dump it at a loss if he doesn't like it.
Not every Corvette owner posts on this forum. He doesn't, but his experiences are just as valid as those who do post on the forum.
I have several other friends with C7 Z06's, but I don't believe any of them have taken them on any long road trips.
Ride is important to me, and I drive a "horrible riding" C6 Z06 without mag ride, etc, LOL. I drive it on long road trips(like 6,418 miles in 15 days and 3,414 miles in 8 days, etc). All the US and on all types of roads.
In it's day the C6 Z06 was an awesome road trip car AND an awesome road course car. You can have both in a Corvette with out buying a Cadillac or a Lincoln. My C6 Z06 has served me well, and I'm 75, so I know all about aches and pains due to old age, and long drives
PS- I also have a Mercedes sedan so I know want a good riding car is(also owned a Cadillac and several big Buicks in the past also, so I know how they ride). I am just as likely to drive my "terrible riding" C6 Z06 on a road trip as I am my Mercedes. They both carry loads of luggage and both get 29-30 MPG average on long trips.
EDIT: forgot about a friend that a new Z06 Convertible in 2015. We did a 3,600 mile trip and he didn't complain about it being a terrible ride. That was his first Corvette, so I don't know if he knew what to expect.
Last edited by JoesC5; 12-02-2017 at 06:57 PM.
12-02-2017, 06:37 PM
#47
Race Director
Who said C6 Z06's were "horrible riding"?
You're quoting it.....
NO ONE brought up the C6 Z06 (except YOU). Still beatin' that "C7 sucks" drum, huh Joe?
You're quoting it.....
NO ONE brought up the C6 Z06 (except YOU). Still beatin' that "C7 sucks" drum, huh Joe?
Last edited by jimmyb; 12-02-2017 at 06:41 PM.
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Kappa (12-02-2017)
12-02-2017, 06:45 PM
#48
Race Director
STORM THE PLANT!
GIVE US TADGE'S HEAD ON A STAKE OR ELSE!
I really cannot believe how ANYONE can take Tadge's comments as anything other than the TRUTH. They're not nasty, he's not bad mouthing the Z06, jeez kids, get over yourselves.
GIVE US TADGE'S HEAD ON A STAKE OR ELSE!
I really cannot believe how ANYONE can take Tadge's comments as anything other than the TRUTH. They're not nasty, he's not bad mouthing the Z06, jeez kids, get over yourselves.
12-02-2017, 06:57 PM
#49
Le Mans Master
GMAFB, C6 owners gotta keep pulling that C7Z hate train as long as possible!
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DebRedZR1 (12-04-2017)
12-02-2017, 08:05 PM
#50
12-02-2017, 09:10 PM
#51
Safety Car
Well, I drove my C6Z06 1500 miles home when I bought it and 400 miles up I5 to trade it in on my C7Z. During my drive home with the C7Z, I thought it definitely was a bit stiffer and more uncomfortable than my C6z (with Rippe revalved Bilsteins).
During that drive I called a friend with an A8 equipped ATS-V and happened to mention that fact. He said you may be in Sport. I answered what is that? Having never had an MR equipped vette I had no idea about the suspension settings. So I put it in T and voila! A great grand tourer. Drove comfortably down the bumpy I5 for the next 350 miles. Tell your buddy that he should have tried adjusting the suspension settings a bit. And now we have the new MR calibration for $350 or the DSC controller for about $1200.
During that drive I called a friend with an A8 equipped ATS-V and happened to mention that fact. He said you may be in Sport. I answered what is that? Having never had an MR equipped vette I had no idea about the suspension settings. So I put it in T and voila! A great grand tourer. Drove comfortably down the bumpy I5 for the next 350 miles. Tell your buddy that he should have tried adjusting the suspension settings a bit. And now we have the new MR calibration for $350 or the DSC controller for about $1200.
12-02-2017, 09:35 PM
#52
Drifting
I drove my C6 base coupe 102,000 miles and thought the ride was on the soft side. Now I have 51,000 miles on my Z06 Convertible with of course magnetic shocks. I much prefer this ride, which is always firm, but gentle in Tour for cross-country cruising. Around town it's Sport or sometimes Track for quicker throttle and more positive handling, and louder exhaust, which is by itself worth the entire payment. But Track for any length of time on the highway will loosen your fillings. Maybe that's why they call it Track?
I understand from at least one of the swarm of articles lately that the ZR1 will be a tad more compliant. That's likely a swell idea for daily driving. But calling the C7 Z06 the worst-riding Corvette ever? Only if your ideal ride is a 1970s Cadillac with marshmallow suspension and one-finger power steering.
12-03-2017, 01:23 AM
#54
Le Mans Master
I have had a lot of Corvettes from the last 6 generations and I can honestly say that my '18 Z06 in TOUR Mode is among the best riding Corvettes I ever had! I usually drive in SPORT and unless the road is really beat up the ride is quite good. TRACK is a different story.
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DebRedZR1 (12-04-2017)
12-03-2017, 07:55 AM
#55
Melting Slicks
12-03-2017, 01:03 PM
#56
Race Director
LOL. In a perfect world- yes. Now to flip the script a little bit. How cool would it be if we didn't have to buy cars, but just had to convince them to park in our garage instead? I could live with that.
12-03-2017, 04:12 PM
#57
Drifting
Bad PR move. He should build up the Corvette brand(s) and focus on beating the competition. With this approach, it is possible that GM will alienate a segment of current owners....plain and simple.
12-03-2017, 05:03 PM
#58
Melting Slicks
We have a GS. I will probably have a ZR1 if reliability issues are non existent and the ability to make it through entire 3 day track events without issue is proven.
There's no way in hell a 755 HP car feels anything like the GS. With nannies supposedly off I can flat foot the GS in places I shouldn't even be able to. I will be downright shocked if I can do that in a ZR1.
I am looking forward to seeing a ZR1 in person. The Z06, regardless of what a ZR1 might be able to do, is and will be still one of the very best sports cars in the world.
There's no way in hell a 755 HP car feels anything like the GS. With nannies supposedly off I can flat foot the GS in places I shouldn't even be able to. I will be downright shocked if I can do that in a ZR1.
I am looking forward to seeing a ZR1 in person. The Z06, regardless of what a ZR1 might be able to do, is and will be still one of the very best sports cars in the world.
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23/C8Z (12-03-2017)
12-03-2017, 07:03 PM
#59
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
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Anybody who suggests a C6 Z rides better than the C7 Z doesn't know what he's talking about.
Nothing against the C6 Z. Had one, loved it. But in no fashion does it ride better than a C7 Z.
Nothing against the C6 Z. Had one, loved it. But in no fashion does it ride better than a C7 Z.
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12-03-2017, 08:13 PM
#60
Le Mans Master
CoG from 120lb of SC and stuff!
We have a GS. I will probably have a ZR1 if reliability issues are non existent and the ability to make it through entire 3 day track events without issue is proven.
There's no way in hell a 755 HP car feels anything like the GS. With nannies supposedly off I can flat foot the GS in places I shouldn't even be able to. I will be downright shocked if I can do that in a ZR1.
I am looking forward to seeing a ZR1 in person. The Z06, regardless of what a ZR1 might be able to do, is and will be still one of the very best sports cars in the world.
There's no way in hell a 755 HP car feels anything like the GS. With nannies supposedly off I can flat foot the GS in places I shouldn't even be able to. I will be downright shocked if I can do that in a ZR1.
I am looking forward to seeing a ZR1 in person. The Z06, regardless of what a ZR1 might be able to do, is and will be still one of the very best sports cars in the world.