z06801

Actually I think the new ZR1 is where it should be, the halo car that does everything really well maybe the marketing should reflect that instead of track rat. Nothing wrong with a track rat, I'm a track rat I think the C7 Z06 is the one with the identity crisis to where it fits in. I was really disappointed when it went to the supercharged format instead of big NA power. The Z06 IMO should be the one with the big aero package and light weight and the delete check box. Like I have mentioned just sold my Porsche turbo so I've have been on here lately wanting to get back into a Corvette for a DD. I'll probably end up with a head and cam c6z06, as I really miss having my C5 z06 on the street. I think a c7 GS with a Katech 427 would be the ticket also. Maybe GM should build it and call it a GSRS. Hell I'd buy one.

fugly1

I'd buy one, too....

OVR60

The ZO6 SNOB's and lawn chair crowd at car shows will not even look at my 13 ZR1 so does that put them in the same category as Porsche owners.

UnhandledException

OP,

I know how you feel. I share a lot of what you are saying and this isnt the car for you.

I have a shelby gt350 and THAT car is my 911R. It has a soul and feels special.

i am getting zr1 purely because of its sheer speed and power and looks.

ZoratZ06

I think it's safe to say that GM knows their clients better than Porsche does, and Porsche knows their clients/demographic better than GM does.

What is so impressive about the 911R? It's a poor mans GT3RS...BUT, they promoted it as a MANUAL ONLY car in a time when the GT3 didn't offer a manual (they did later bring it back). So Porsche saw an opening where they thought they could sell 500-1000 911R's to a MOSTLY collector crowd and basically 'gouge' people for a less hardcore GT3. (good business decision, so I applaud them). Sure, it's a nice car...but is it worth $500k? Not to me...but to the collector community it seems to be. My point? Porsche knows their base crowd/clients and they are KINGS at nickel and diming customers. Anyone who has owned one knows this.

GM also knows their base crowd too. Hence the ZR1 is what it is. By the way...what the ZR1 is, is likely one badass ride than can competently compete with just about anything out there. It's a well rounded car that has serious performance. Quite frankly, I don't see many 'total package' equals. Most other cars are too compromising in one way or another, which is FINE, and even GOOD, because it gives us choices. But the ZR1 really doesn't compromise to get 'that' level of performance.

Let's be honest here...if they upgraded the interior just a little bit and put a Porsche badge on the ZR1...people would be RAVING about it...and it would cost $300k...+

I'm trying to process this...It's almost certainly the best bang for the buck sports car EVER built...and people are complaining about it? Likely stats: 1/4 mi: mid 10's or better, 0-60: 2.8s, 'RING': sub 7 mins, MRLS sub 1:30. AND you can daily drive it and actually put something in the truck/hatch. Name me ONE sports car in the WORLD, at any price that can do all of those things? There isn't one. Why? Because most are so compromising you can't go grocery shopping in them...and that's the AMAZING part about what the ZR1 accomplishes. It can compete with the BEST without losing it's civility. Sure, some people want a pure hard core track car...but GM has proven they can accomplish both. Impressive.

I say, CONGRATS GM.

JayhawkCPA

TL;DR

I think how big the tuner scene has gotten and the packages the big shops put out have made people spoiled, so factory performance packages don't excite like they once did...back in the 80's when the ZR1 came out...no youtube, facebook, you could only see the few tuner there were (LPE, Callaway) cars in magazines, so something wild from the factory felt really special.

acroy

C7 ZR1 is awesome and an excellent successor to the C6 ZR1

C7 Z06 was a swing-and-a-miss IMHO. Excellent car but not a successor to the C6 Z06. Overheating, heavier, etc. 'Should' have been a big bad re-worked version of the LS7 with 600+hp NA.

KnightDriveTV

I think you're right. I realize challenges in EPA mandates and fuel mileage fleet averages, as well as other market variables, dictated Z06 be supercharged. Indeed, I think it initiated the identity crisis that was compounded by ZR1. I'd have been happy to concede ZR1 to the supercharged/superpowers that be, had Z06 remained someone niche. That said though Z06 in C7 has sold more than ever...automatic, opened air, lots of old fellas buying...so be it. ZR1 will be more of the same, but starts to take on a cartoonish character. It'll be fast, it'll be grand...yes, and yes...but like you said, the big cube "racecar" is likely a thing of the past. I was hoping GM had one more move in them.

KnightDriveTV

You have quite missed the point of the R entirely I believe. Is it worth the money, is it a watered down GT3, is it overhyped...MOST DEFINITELY...you're not incorrect. Did it sell? Was it a parts bin success that essentially helped pay for the transmission they developed for the next GT3. Absolutely. Was it great from a marketing perspecitive, a great win for the modern legacy, a great media tool...HELL ...YES. 911R captured the future purists dreams, then they spit out the 911t.

Cmon man...that's genius...and GM could do the same theoretically. In the end it's about dollars and cents, of course...and that's what they certainly know better than any.

Saying they know their customers is true to a degree, but if corporations were always 100% spot on they wouldn't build vehicles that fail to sell, nor would they discontinue failing products (4th gen Camaro). There is always error in recognizing your target.

GM is seeking a certain type of Corvette buyer and I say they are missing a group of people who WOULD step up to get the car, if they really start injecting some legacy, combined with some potency. Is it a risk, sure...but again....911R.

Take the GrandSport, sharpen it, call it the Zora Edition Grand Sport (or Z06), parts bin the hell out of it, stir in some kind of natural aspirated mix and call it "likely" the last naturally aspirated, manual box Corvette ever and you sell all of them...period.

1985 Corvette

Unfortunately, it’s more about the perfect balance the passionate engineers and the bean counters have established versus making a killer track weapon. Undoubtedly, this thing is going to blister some tracks, but there are going to be some “if only” nagging reflections about this one just like the last two ZR1 generations. I wouldn’t mind if GM gave the greenlight to build a limited super track weapon, barely street legal Vette that crushed one thing very well: the track, and it didn’t give two ***** about luggage room or being comfy for a drive to Cars and Coffee, and other luxuries.

ZoratZ06

I think what you might be overlooking is the 'risk.' It's simply not worth the risk. There is very very very little benefit to GM here. If it sells, they 'might' make money...but probably not cause they'd have to develop and entirely new engine. If it doesn't sell, then they flop and look like fools. They already have the GS...which is as capable or more than a GT3 on the track. GM = win. They sell them...customers are happy. What was the last GM car to APPRECIATE in value? I can't think of one in the past 30 years. Porsche doesn't have this problem. Hence, a different demographic.

Where is the 'WHY?' What does GM serve to gain, VERSUS the risk involved with doing it? I'm not GM, but IMHO it's not worth the risk. Stay the 'safe' course...why? Because it's working. Porsche does what it does, because it's working.

Btw, very very few manufacturers are OK with selling a car at a loss to prove a technology point. That includes Porsche...hence why it's been 30 years since they did that with the 959.

ZoratZ06

The theory is awesome. But would enough people buy it? GM thinks NO. Thus it likely won't happen.

KnightDriveTV

I ran an entire company that built turnkey trackday cars with license plates, I'm pretty certain I know something about calculating risk for that sector of buyer. My entire company aimed it's marketing budget at them for years. We were on tv shows aiming at them. If there is a demo I know pretty well, it's that guy.

As you point out, it's an engine issue...this is well known. The fact is though, you have to find the platform to put it in. Whether it be a special edition truck, or a pumped up Cadillac Escalade, you find somewhere to get the money to make it happen. And again, I'm not saying the budget is there, the fleet mileage requirements allows it, etc...we don't know if it does or doesn't....but the naysayers here claim to feel the right to say IT DOESN'T. I'm saying...it damn sure may...we DON'T KNOW THAT.

In my belief it's because Tadge has a certain mentality. It's not a BAD mentality, it's just...different. Like all Chief Engineers, CEO's, you name it...they'll come in and do what they think is best, and all will succeed...and fail at times, but all will serve the brand at each stage, likely in a positive way.

Tadge stated in an interview that playing with a stick to change gears will be laughed at one day. He said playing with a stick to manipulate the transmission is archaic. For some, that may be true. For some, it's DEFINITELY NOT true. Some enthusiasts will sacrifice all out speed, for engagement. We have huge Vintage Racing groups around the country for this reason...not everyone wants the newest/latest/greatest, but some do want turnkey and warranty, etc.

Let the next chief engineer also be a multi year SCCA champion or former endurance racer...you'll see how the shift occurs. It's not a speed boat rudder, it's a huge ocean liner...but it'll shift...just enough.

Again...this thread is certainly about "wishful thinking", but it appears most on this forum feel the need to be the "debunkers" and inject their hows and whys. Let's realize, had I started this thread two years ago and said I want a convertible with a big wing and 755hp, those same debunkers would've sh*t their pants laughing...now we're here. Just because YOU wouldn't drive or buy it, doesn't mean it won't sell. Just because Tadge has said they couldn't EPA cert a big cube motor for C7 or justify the investment of another, doesn't mean it can't happen now. As stated, the ZR1 wasn't planned...it was the result of strong sales and an updated risk assessment. Tadge also stated they'd "maxed out" the RWD platform at C6 ZR1...clearly not true today either.

ZoratZ06

Let's just keep this simple. If GM thought they could make TONS of money on it, do you think they'd do it?

They haven't built the car (yet in your IMHO)...that's your answer.

Btw, I own a manual C7Z and have owned every transmission variation out there...I love rowing through the gears. But most new Vettes and ALL Ferrari's are auto/DCT. Why? Consumer demand. I love Top Fuel Dragsters as much as I love F-1. None of that matters...GM making $$$$ is ALL that matters.

RandomTask

As someone in the market, I’m with the OP on this one. I’m having a really hard time falling in love with the new ZR1. Loved my C7Z, loved the C6ZR and C6Z. . . but this ZR1 just doesn’t move me the way past ones have. Sure, it’s a numbers machine. . . but it just seems masturbatory at this point. Sure it gets the job done, but it seems routine. . .

The LS7 was a monster compared to the LS3.
The LS9 was a monster compared to the LS7. .
The LT4 was a monster compared to the LS7. . .
This LT5 seems like a half assed effort compared to the LT4. . .

“Ooh, let’s put a different blower on it!”

1985 Corvette

I was a little disappointed in the blower route but it’s the future, until they decide to commit to turbos. The car dimensionally is pretty big, much larger than a C4, yet a DOHC motor was wedged into it. It couldn’t have been impossible to get a DOHC screamer in the current car. They ended up ballooning the hood bulge anyway for this new motor.

elegant

Routine?

212 MPH top speed; 2.6 seconds a lap faster at VIR (compared to the Z06 on that same track configuration); and probably (though yet to be confirmed) eliminating the Z06’s overheating issues.

We have not even seen a full test of the car, and it is routine? Maybe routine in terms of one’s person’s “emotional meter,” but I do not think it is routine in terms of performance, nor in terms of its major improvements over the Z06 (and I own a Z06).

It is also not routine in many emotional meters— in that we know that already many of the top dealers who have ZR1 ordering lists, are already over their allocation amounts (sometimes double on their list compared to their high ZR1 allocations), with also many, many dealers that are small and medium sized who are getting 1-15 total ZR1 allocations, similarly already over on their internal priority list numbers compared to their ZR1 allocations. I have personally talked with 12 dealers about this issue, and only one (who is not yet allowing people to sign up for the ZR1), does not have a higher number on their ZR1 ordering list compared to their allocation.

And those ordering lists would be much higher if it were not known that the ME in just one more year.

Guess the ZR1 is very high on many individuals’ emotional meter, but not so for at least one person.

Personally I am very, very excited about the ZR1 even though my Corvette savings account is dedicated for the ME.

snow

Cool car for sure and plenty of fan boys to buy them. Good for them and GM. I'll wait to see the ME offering and then decide if I add one to the stable...

N4Speed

I should have listened to your advise and saved my self a few minutes

I think GM has done a fantastic job! ZR1 will probably beat 99% of its completion costing 3-4 times as much. I tracked my Z06 and my Aventador on COTA, the Z06 was 1 second faster, yes Aventador is not the best track car but it is 4-wheel drive with 700 HP and cost me 5 times what I paid for Z06.

I really enjoyed my Z06 both on and off track. It had all of the creature comfort as well as lots of cool technology such as PDR, dual front camera, Mag dampers, head-up display, etc. Try ordering one of the exotic Italian cars with PDR or dual front camera and they will laugh at you.

I can’t imagine what ZR1 is capable of. I have a deposit down and hopefully if I am lucky enough I get one 2nd quarter of 2018.

KnightDriveTV