When Titans Collide: The GT2 RS vs the 2019 ZR1
12-07-2017, 01:42 PM
#42
12-07-2017, 03:35 PM
#44
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Not on the ZR1's best and brightest day. The Hurican performante got its **** slapped out by the GT2RS.
Best part is, GT2RS even has a child seat option. Strap in your little guy for a 6:48 run at the Ring....
That car has no equal....
Best part is, GT2RS even has a child seat option. Strap in your little guy for a 6:48 run at the Ring....
That car has no equal....
12-07-2017, 04:45 PM
#46
Just for kicks. Can't read German but its pretty easy to figure out.
12-07-2017, 04:56 PM
#47
Safety Car
I only buy stick cars, so yeah it matters. The transmission is one of the core assemblies in any car, it costs big money to make a good one, and it's very much a discussion piece.
Porsche didn't build one initially for the GT3 991.1 because it costs a lot of money. They only built one now, paraded it in a rare 911 R model before they released it to the rest of the market.
The transmission is very relevant:
from an experience point of view
from a cost point of view
from a performance point of view
GM invested more money to develop the Z06 trans, which was only rated for 650tq to use it in the ZR1. Porsche didn't spend the money to offer a further developed manual trans in the GT2. It matters.
Porsche didn't build one initially for the GT3 991.1 because it costs a lot of money. They only built one now, paraded it in a rare 911 R model before they released it to the rest of the market.
The transmission is very relevant:
from an experience point of view
from a cost point of view
from a performance point of view
GM invested more money to develop the Z06 trans, which was only rated for 650tq to use it in the ZR1. Porsche didn't spend the money to offer a further developed manual trans in the GT2. It matters.
12-07-2017, 05:00 PM
#48
Scraping the splitter.
That Sport Auto video is pretty cool.
Note that they tested a C7 Z06 and it ran an :06.9.
With the additional 105 hp and aero, I wouldn't be surprised to see it pick up ~2-3 seconds on that track (especially since they do a standing start). The ZR1 will be right there with the GT2 RS and the Performante.
S.
Note that they tested a C7 Z06 and it ran an :06.9.
With the additional 105 hp and aero, I wouldn't be surprised to see it pick up ~2-3 seconds on that track (especially since they do a standing start). The ZR1 will be right there with the GT2 RS and the Performante.
S.
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12-07-2017, 05:18 PM
#49
Burning Brakes
That Sport Auto video is pretty cool.
Note that they tested a C7 Z06 and it ran an :06.9.
With the additional 105 hp and aero, I wouldn't be surprised to see it pick up ~2-3 seconds on that track (especially since they do a standing start). The ZR1 will be right there with the GT2 RS and the Performante.
S.
Note that they tested a C7 Z06 and it ran an :06.9.
With the additional 105 hp and aero, I wouldn't be surprised to see it pick up ~2-3 seconds on that track (especially since they do a standing start). The ZR1 will be right there with the GT2 RS and the Performante.
S.
I think the ZR1 will do just fine.
12-07-2017, 05:59 PM
#50
Drifting
I only buy stick cars, so yeah it matters. The transmission is one of the core assemblies in any car, it costs big money to make a good one, and it's very much a discussion piece.
Porsche didn't build one initially for the GT3 991.1 because it costs a lot of money. They only built one now, paraded it in a rare 911 R model before they released it to the rest of the market.
The transmission is very relevant:
from an experience point of view
from a cost point of view
from a performance point of view
GM invested more money to develop the Z06 trans, which was only rated for 650tq to use it in the ZR1. Porsche didn't spend the money to offer a further developed manual trans in the GT2. It matters.
Porsche didn't build one initially for the GT3 991.1 because it costs a lot of money. They only built one now, paraded it in a rare 911 R model before they released it to the rest of the market.
The transmission is very relevant:
from an experience point of view
from a cost point of view
from a performance point of view
GM invested more money to develop the Z06 trans, which was only rated for 650tq to use it in the ZR1. Porsche didn't spend the money to offer a further developed manual trans in the GT2. It matters.
I see this 5 times a day and it only matters to???. No one because everybody has already made up their mind.
I don't have a problem with your opinion but have you ever had a conversation with a drunk in a bar who keeps repeating him/her self over and over and....
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12-07-2017, 06:21 PM
#51
Safety Car
OK, I get it but you don't need to say it over and over and......
I see this 5 times a day and it only matters to???. No one because everybody has already made up their mind.
I don't have a problem with your opinion but have you ever had a conversation with a drunk in a bar who keeps repeating him/her self over and over and....
I see this 5 times a day and it only matters to???. No one because everybody has already made up their mind.
I don't have a problem with your opinion but have you ever had a conversation with a drunk in a bar who keeps repeating him/her self over and over and....
This forum is not of the "Make LawrenceFromTorrance Feel Good" variety. I'm not here to give you good vibes. Someone needs to drop a dollar in the negativity jar.
The ZR1 may take the record for the fastest production stick shift car to run the Ring. If you don't think that's an achievement that's fine by me. You can say it or not say it, or say it twice. Just don't tell me what to do.
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Kappa (12-07-2017)
12-07-2017, 06:41 PM
#53
The negativity surrounding this car has caught my by surprise...then again, on this forum, nothing should surprise me anymore.
Let me try to understand...So we have been introduced to a car that has 755hp with 725tq (??), and will likely compete with and sometimes beat just about ANYTHING currently available at ANY price. Not only will it compete with and potentially beat most of those cars, it will do so with a FULL interior, a comfortable ride, and for 1/2 the price, in the 'real' world, more like 1/3rd to 1/4 of the price. AND actually be available to purchase, unlike the FGT and GT2RS (in the 'real world').
So please, help me understand how this is so terrible? How GM f-ed up? I don't see it.
Likely Competitors:
Mac 720s
Porsche GT2RS
Ferrari 488
Ford GT
Lambo Huracan
It should fair pretty well against all of them in various aspects. It won't be faster than all of them in a straight line, but my guess is it will hold it's own quite well on the track. I personally don't think the Ferrari or Porsche will be faster at the strip. 3 of those 5 cars are PURPOSE built race cars. Only the Ferrari and Lambo aren't...and I'm sure a 'speciale' type version is still to come...
I just don't understand the bitching and moaning around here...and it's American to boot. Love it.
Lastly, I have't seen too many of you guys complaining the GT2RS weighs 3250 lbs and the Mac 720s only weighs 2850. So the GT2RS is a pig now? Silly.
Let me try to understand...So we have been introduced to a car that has 755hp with 725tq (??), and will likely compete with and sometimes beat just about ANYTHING currently available at ANY price. Not only will it compete with and potentially beat most of those cars, it will do so with a FULL interior, a comfortable ride, and for 1/2 the price, in the 'real' world, more like 1/3rd to 1/4 of the price. AND actually be available to purchase, unlike the FGT and GT2RS (in the 'real world').
So please, help me understand how this is so terrible? How GM f-ed up? I don't see it.
Likely Competitors:
Mac 720s
Porsche GT2RS
Ferrari 488
Ford GT
Lambo Huracan
It should fair pretty well against all of them in various aspects. It won't be faster than all of them in a straight line, but my guess is it will hold it's own quite well on the track. I personally don't think the Ferrari or Porsche will be faster at the strip. 3 of those 5 cars are PURPOSE built race cars. Only the Ferrari and Lambo aren't...and I'm sure a 'speciale' type version is still to come...
I just don't understand the bitching and moaning around here...and it's American to boot. Love it.
Lastly, I have't seen too many of you guys complaining the GT2RS weighs 3250 lbs and the Mac 720s only weighs 2850. So the GT2RS is a pig now? Silly.
Point of clarification - 720S is not purpose built for racing. That is the 720LT which is yet to come.
Everyone should be glad that there are so many great cars out there at various price point.
12-07-2017, 09:42 PM
#54
Team Owner
12-07-2017, 09:59 PM
#55
Drifting
Punky: My experience is from racing these cars for 20+ years... and winning successfully for 20+ years.
It's just physics, how many 'road race' cars come with Superchargers?
None... Turbo or N/A... is what 'track dedicated' cars receive.
I still beleive the ZR1 is going to be a beast... and I'm sure I'll get one at some point. But I would never expect it to be a track dedicated machine.
TelePierre, here is another view showing the passenger seat, they didn't remove anything that wasn't a factory option:
http://press.porsche.com/admin/presspics/1048.jpg
Corvette enthusiasts have been asking for 'stripped/lightweight' models for decades, and GM tells us no, they won't sell. Porsche charges $30K for their 'lightweight items', go figure.
I for one am glad chevrolet is still making this car with a Manual, I am disappointed that it is still an Automatic, and not a DCT, in 2019 (MY).
Best Regards,
Dave
It's just physics, how many 'road race' cars come with Superchargers?
None... Turbo or N/A... is what 'track dedicated' cars receive.
I still beleive the ZR1 is going to be a beast... and I'm sure I'll get one at some point. But I would never expect it to be a track dedicated machine.
Well then..semantics I suppose..
"though to see" ... impossible to see... allegedly there..but OK no big deal I guess.. I was simply pointing out what a lot of people were humming about in the forums..
I was specific..and it would be nice a rebuttal in kind..
2. OEM 'Weissach Package'. Selected substitution of few components with lighter ones. 40 pounds
3. OEM deletion of audio and communication system...
5. deletion of acclimatization system
You say stock... I say clever way to substitute "stripping" with "package" "deletion" and "OEM deletion". It does sound more professional though I give you that..
I am not going to double check the rest because this is about ZR1 and GT2RS... agree?
Cheers
"though to see" ... impossible to see... allegedly there..but OK no big deal I guess.. I was simply pointing out what a lot of people were humming about in the forums..
I was specific..and it would be nice a rebuttal in kind..
2. OEM 'Weissach Package'. Selected substitution of few components with lighter ones. 40 pounds
3. OEM deletion of audio and communication system...
5. deletion of acclimatization system
You say stock... I say clever way to substitute "stripping" with "package" "deletion" and "OEM deletion". It does sound more professional though I give you that..
I am not going to double check the rest because this is about ZR1 and GT2RS... agree?
Cheers
http://press.porsche.com/admin/presspics/1048.jpg
Corvette enthusiasts have been asking for 'stripped/lightweight' models for decades, and GM tells us no, they won't sell. Porsche charges $30K for their 'lightweight items', go figure.
I for one am glad chevrolet is still making this car with a Manual, I am disappointed that it is still an Automatic, and not a DCT, in 2019 (MY).
Best Regards,
Dave
12-07-2017, 10:20 PM
#56
Drifting
Oh, I see you are the guy who speaks for everyone. With all do respect you are crossing your boundary. It's as if you're the guy who walked in drunk in a bar, had nothing to contribute, except to yell "wrong."
This forum is not of the "Make LawrenceFromTorrance Feel Good" variety. I'm not here to give you good vibes. Someone needs to drop a dollar in the negativity jar.
The ZR1 may take the record for the fastest production stick shift car to run the Ring. If you don't think that's an achievement that's fine by me. You can say it or not say it, or say it twice. Just don't tell me what to do.
This forum is not of the "Make LawrenceFromTorrance Feel Good" variety. I'm not here to give you good vibes. Someone needs to drop a dollar in the negativity jar.
The ZR1 may take the record for the fastest production stick shift car to run the Ring. If you don't think that's an achievement that's fine by me. You can say it or not say it, or say it twice. Just don't tell me what to do.
Your just upset because you're not getting an AMEN from everybody. Yes, this is my opinion just as you gave your opinion, you just won't see me going on and on about it. Now since you can't stop yourself go ahead and I'll let you have the last word. But you'll just be proving me right
12-08-2017, 06:49 AM
#57
Leaf spring suspension is the achilles heel for all Corvettes. Maybe the C8 will breakout of that mold. For now you have to settle for a super car instead of a super duper car.
12-08-2017, 08:31 AM
#59
1960 Independent MacPherson axle with traverse and longitudinal control arms and suspension struts is the achilles heel for all 911s. Maybe the 2050s 911s will break that mold. For now you have to settle for a super car instead of a super duper car.
12-08-2017, 08:41 AM
#60
Punky: My experience is from racing these cars for 20+ years... and winning successfully for 20+ years.
It's just physics, how many 'road race' cars come with Superchargers?
None... Turbo or N/A... is what 'track dedicated' cars receive.
I still beleive the ZR1 is going to be a beast... and I'm sure I'll get one at some point. But I would never expect it to be a track dedicated machine.
TelePierre, here is another view showing the passenger seat, they didn't remove anything that wasn't a factory option:
http://press.porsche.com/admin/presspics/1048.jpg
I for one am glad chevrolet is still making this car with a Manual, I am disappointed that it is still an Automatic, and not a DCT, in 2019 (MY).
Best Regards,
Dave
It's just physics, how many 'road race' cars come with Superchargers?
None... Turbo or N/A... is what 'track dedicated' cars receive.
I still beleive the ZR1 is going to be a beast... and I'm sure I'll get one at some point. But I would never expect it to be a track dedicated machine.
TelePierre, here is another view showing the passenger seat, they didn't remove anything that wasn't a factory option:
http://press.porsche.com/admin/presspics/1048.jpg
I for one am glad chevrolet is still making this car with a Manual, I am disappointed that it is still an Automatic, and not a DCT, in 2019 (MY).
Best Regards,
Dave
Thank you for looking into the “seat” question and sharing. You probably came across the same thing I did. A LOT of enthusiasts asking the same because of Porsche’s legalese
“Porsche Motorsport bucket seat and harness on driver's side only”
You may recall my initial post started with this “PURE TRACK the GT2 RS has "probably" an edge”
So I am not here to bash this “titan” but I am simply peeling the onion back on the GT2 RS ring show to point out “techniques” that may be generally accepted in Germany and Europe as “normal” but in the CF do need some discovery for real apple to apple compares.
For example, I am still scratching my head on reconciling the term Original Manufacturer Equipment (OEM) delete” with the term “stock” and “stripping”. I sense from your reply you are conceding this point?
For example the GT2 RS comes “stock” without rear seats. Comes “stock” with magnesium roof (2005 Corvette anybody?..) and titanium exhaust and special light glass and rear traction vs all drive. Got it. I can accept these as OEM “stock”.
But the ring GT2 RS ALSO had “custom work” that pushes the boundaries of mere “options” and turn into downright modding (since the term stripping seems offensive).
The Weissach Package is a “special order”
The 3 OEM deletes aforementioned are “special order” not an “option” the way "options" are generally interpreted (see GT2 RS configurator – not there).
I hope you understand the distinction I am making within the context on my original post which was the ZR1 “stock” is most likely a much better GT car.
The GT2 RS “stock” is a 295K car.
The GT2 RS “ring car” is a custom order 380K+ car! The same way the Lexus LFA that did the Nurburing WAS a “custom” car as inquiring minds later found out...
If we want solely concentrate on track(which I don’t) to make a compare meaningful I need to know these things..
Truth is, math at hand, it looks to me stock to stock the power/weight ratio favors the ZR1..
Finally, not sure I can agree with this..
Corvette enthusiasts have been asking for 'stripped/lightweight' models for decades, and GM tells us no, they won't sell. Porsche charges $30K for their 'lightweight items', go figure
Personally, do I want Tadge to send the stock ZR1 to Pratt and Miller to “smoke” the Ring and then been told THAT car is a special order!?
Neh- I think I’ll take my 3-5 seconds delta (either way) stick with stock and let the tuners on this CF tackle the specials..
Good chat.
Cheers