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Physics will come into play as the ZR1 IS a near mid-engine car opposed to an aluminum sledge hammer with wheels and power. At those speeds the rear engine Porsche will be a factor to deal with. (Near 50/50 weight ratio/ ZR1 not mid engine)
The GT2 RS has unusual weight distribution of 39:61 front to rear. Various wings and aerofoils festooning the body can generate up to 350kg of grip-enhancing downforce to help balance it out.
so we're giving out prizes for the most "well rounded" track car now?
Once again, putting caveats on categories is skewing things in your favor. I don't care if the ZR1 drives like a Cadillac on the street, if it can't beat the GT2 RS on the track IT ISN'T A BETTER TRACK CAR, period. Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp?
What we do know is as of today, January 9, 2018 the GT2 RS has a Nurburgring lap time of 6:47, the fastest street legal production car ever to be timed on the track, that's a fact. Speculate all you want about what the ZR1 can or can't do but until I see an official time posted the Porsche is the best car for that track.
Why are people arguing this?
Is faster always 'better'? I think the Z06 proved that 1-2 super fast laps isn't that great if you over heat. It's faster than a GT3RS, but not likely a better track car.
Having said that...you're putting a lot of weight on the GT2RS Ring Time. It's certainly an impressive time, so congrats to Porsche. Though it's pure speculation, but if the ZR1 is slower at the Ring, but faster at MRLS, What car is the better track car? In terms of relevance, tracks that are actually accessible would be more relevant to most on this forum.
I personally think the ZR1 will do just fine against the GT2RS at 'most' tracks. So, YES, I am saying it will likely be the equal of the GT2RS at most tracks, thus you could potentially make the argument it is as good as the GT2RS on the track. But we won't know this for another 3-6 months +. The good news is, you can just about guarantee there will be multiple magazine comparison tests in 2018 between them, esp. at MRLS and VIR. Then we can come back and read this section again after the results are tallied.
What I think you're going to find is that the 6:47 for the GT2RS will NOT translate in the magazine tests on the US tracks. The Viper laid down a 1:28.xx at MRLS...and the GT2RS is 14 seconds faster at the Ring than the Viper...So, will the GT2RS run a 1:26.xx at MRLS? Unlikely. Case and point is the 918 Spyder, 4 seconds faster at the Ring than the Viper and 1.3s SLOWER at MRLS, which is A LOT on a shorter track. I get that one is higher speed track...but that's a lot of time to make up.
So which is the better track car, the 918 or the Viper ACR-E? It does have 13 track records after all...BUT, it's slower at the saintly, godly, almighty 'RING'!!! lol. If it were a championship series the 918 would lose due to being 'slower overall.' So which is the better track car?
I'm not knocking the GT2RS, as I looked into getting one, but the mark-ups were just silly and inventory was virtually nil.
Lastly...I think it's utterly AMAZING what GM is able to do with 1/2 to 1/3rd the cost/budget of Porsche/Ferrari etc...That needs to be respected.
Is faster always 'better'? I think the Z06 proved that 1-2 super fast laps isn't that great if you over heat. It's faster than a GT3RS, but not likely a better track car.
Having said that...you're putting a lot of weight on the GT2RS Ring Time. It's certainly an impressive time, so congrats to Porsche. Though it's pure speculation, but if the ZR1 is slower at the Ring, but faster at MRLS, What car is the better track car? In terms of relevance, tracks that are actually accessible would be more relevant to most on this forum.
I personally think the ZR1 will do just fine against the GT2RS at 'most' tracks. So, YES, I am saying it will likely be the equal of the GT2RS at most tracks, thus you could potentially make the argument it is as good as the GT2RS on the track. But we won't know this for another 3-6 months +. The good news is, you can just about guarantee there will be multiple magazine comparison tests in 2018 between them, esp. at MRLS and VIR. Then we can come back and read this section again after the results are tallied.
What I think you're going to find is that the 6:47 for the GT2RS will NOT translate in the magazine tests on the US tracks. The Viper laid down a 1:28.xx at MRLS...and the GT2RS is 14 seconds faster at the Ring than the Viper...So, will the GT2RS run a 1:26.xx at MRLS? Unlikely. Case and point is the 918 Spyder, 4 seconds faster at the Ring than the Viper and 1.3s SLOWER at MRLS, which is A LOT on a shorter track. I get that one is higher speed track...but that's a lot of time to make up.
So which is the better track car, the 918 or the Viper ACR-E? It does have 13 track records after all...BUT, it's slower at the saintly, godly, almighty 'RING'!!! lol. If it were a championship series the 918 would lose due to being 'slower overall.' So which is the better track car?
I'm not knocking the GT2RS, as I looked into getting one, but the mark-ups were just silly and inventory was virtually nil.
Lastly...I think it's utterly AMAZING what GM is able to do with 1/2 to 1/3rd the cost/budget of Porsche/Ferrari etc...That needs to be respected.
Well said I agree, I talked to my local Porsche dealer also, said they were getting 6-7 seven units all were given to the 918 list and long gone this was months ago. He said they were only 1 of 2 dealerships that sold them to that list at sticker and that most were asking up to 500k over. Wouldn't be surprised to see the flippers asking 1,000,000. If they don't take more orders. I also think the ZR1 will do fine against the GT2 RS when it's a US spec on our tracks here, no reason to think that the overheating issues haven't been fix so it can run normal track session at 10/10ths.
I think I read recently the big rear wing will generate around 1,000 lbs. downforce on the back of the car.
IMO (again), this is just what the LT5 really needs to shine in the corners.
After owning my car for awhile now and having some real fun on the rural backroads here in Oregon, I have come to the conclusion the LT4 in the Z06 could also benefit a great deal from a big rear wing and its downforce.
The 650hp/lbs. can overpower the excellent chassis and tires pretty quickly.
I would LOVE to have the kind of grip the C7R enjoys.
And speaking of the C7R....
For the those who are unfamiliar with the car, the IMSA race series in which GM's factory Corvette Racing Team competes, limits the HP of the GTLM class (the class the team competes in) to 500hp.
Per class rules, the C7R weighs a little over 2600lbs.
It has a 5.5L NA pushrod engine.
AFAIK, it is the only car of its class that actually is an NA.
And DON'T forget to program your DVRs for the 24 Hours of Daytona on the 27th & 28th on the Fox TV channels. https://www.imsa.com/
A couple of years ago at Daytona, Team Yellow blessed us with the greatest finish in the history of endurance racing:
I follow the team very closely. The C7.R weighs in at 1240kg or 2730lbs. IMSA wants the class at about 500 hp but all the cars are closer to 510 or a little more. The Corvette runs the 5.5L with 2 air restrictors to limit the amount of air coming into the engine (hp). Both restrictors are 30.6mm.
The Porsche 911 RSR also is NA and runs 2 restrictors that are 31.5mm. The Porsche gets bigger restrictor so in theory makes more hp as the engine is allowed to eat more air. This is all down to the BOP (balance of performace) of the series to try and even the class. This current BOP is the one in use as of the ROAR before the 24. It will get small updates before the 24 hr race, from small weight to small hp tweaks.
The Ford GT GTE, Ferrari 488 GTE, and BMW M8 GTE are all turbo and have boost limits throughout the rpm band.
Last edited by myvette_99; 01-10-2018 at 01:04 PM.
ZR1 isn't running 6:48...let's just put that wish aside....lol. Let's look to beat ACR at 7:01 instead...that's a reasonable goal and one I think is definitely possible. We may need more than Mero though. 2 cars, 2 drivers, all in.
Full weight not stripped! Nice trick they tried though! Would NOT be apples to apples so we don't have a time to use to compare on the GT2RS!
Originally Posted by Telepierre
PURE TRACK the GT2 RS has "probably" an edge but just to be clear this is how the GT2 RS did the latest 6:48 RING (besides all the good points from SNORMAN..I mean Porsche did deploy the proverbial elephant gun…):
1. OEM Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 'N2',
2. OEM 'Weissach Package'. Selected substitution of few components with lighter ones. 40 pounds
3. OEM deletion of audio and communication system...
4. Porsche Motorsport bucket seat and harness on driver's side... code word for we took the other seat out and
5. deletion of acclimatization system
So they stripped the car.. got it! BRAVO!.......
BUT If we look at this duel on a wider range of attributes to include post track performance (see sales of z06...and "Joe" want's looks, comfort, open air and bragging HPs!) then and I am willing to bet the ZR1 is far better gran turismo.. (that's what GT stands for afterall..) and better at the 500 mile drive (noise, comfort, overall experience/performance).
Maybe the 911 GT2 has more of a rarity pedigree and the German 'aura" = great trophy/good car/expensive but this is more marketing than actual performance.
I suppose Tadge is not going to “bite” (nor should) on the Nurb pomp and glitz show..
Just send the ZR1 there as per 2009/2012. Pure factory (no stripping) + safety gear (driver in jeans....ok just kidding...:-) but they should have the stereo blasting just for fun..) post a respectable sub 7 time and state you can buy a super, hyper, exotic, uber, mega or whatever those cars are called nowadays..OR a ZR1 AND BTW we did not strip the car.. you can do that yourself free of charge…
It would be interesting to see who wins on the way to the bank..
Is faster always 'better'? I think the Z06 proved that 1-2 super fast laps isn't that great if you over heat. It's faster than a GT3RS, but not likely a better track car.
Having said that...you're putting a lot of weight on the GT2RS Ring Time. It's certainly an impressive time, so congrats to Porsche. Though it's pure speculation, but if the ZR1 is slower at the Ring, but faster at MRLS, What car is the better track car? In terms of relevance, tracks that are actually accessible would be more relevant to most on this forum.
I personally think the ZR1 will do just fine against the GT2RS at 'most' tracks. So, YES, I am saying it will likely be the equal of the GT2RS at most tracks, thus you could potentially make the argument it is as good as the GT2RS on the track. But we won't know this for another 3-6 months +. The good news is, you can just about guarantee there will be multiple magazine comparison tests in 2018 between them, esp. at MRLS and VIR. Then we can come back and read this section again after the results are tallied.
What I think you're going to find is that the 6:47 for the GT2RS will NOT translate in the magazine tests on the US tracks. The Viper laid down a 1:28.xx at MRLS...and the GT2RS is 14 seconds faster at the Ring than the Viper...So, will the GT2RS run a 1:26.xx at MRLS? Unlikely. Case and point is the 918 Spyder, 4 seconds faster at the Ring than the Viper and 1.3s SLOWER at MRLS, which is A LOT on a shorter track. I get that one is higher speed track...but that's a lot of time to make up.
So which is the better track car, the 918 or the Viper ACR-E? It does have 13 track records after all...BUT, it's slower at the saintly, godly, almighty 'RING'!!! lol. If it were a championship series the 918 would lose due to being 'slower overall.' So which is the better track car?
I'm not knocking the GT2RS, as I looked into getting one, but the mark-ups were just silly and inventory was virtually nil.
Lastly...I think it's utterly AMAZING what GM is able to do with 1/2 to 1/3rd the cost/budget of Porsche/Ferrari etc...That needs to be respected.
What you're missing here is that the 918 ISN'T a track car, just because it did extremely well on the 'Ring and other tracks that doesn't mean it was designed from the onset as a track car, when was the last time you seen a dedicated street legal track car that was AWD AND a hybrid?
The ACR was designed to be a street legal track car just as the GT2 RS and the ZR1.
What you're missing here is that the 918 ISN'T a track car, just because it did extremely well on the 'Ring and other tracks that doesn't mean it was designed from the onset as a track car, when was the last time you seen a dedicated street legal track car that was AWD AND a hybrid?
The ACR was designed to be a street legal track car just as the GT2 RS and the ZR1.
The Weissach package’s main focus is reduced weight, helping to lower the 918 Spyder’s curb mass from 3,715 pounds to 3,616 pounds. Specific measures include the addition of magnesium wheels, a lighter brake design, ceramic wheel bearings, and titanium bolts for the chassis.
There are also add-on parts, mainly to aid aerodynamics, and even a thin film coating for the exterior instead of regular paint. One of these coatings features a classic Martini Racing theme.
on the track you want down force more than better aerodynamics.
The Weissach package’s main focus is reduced weight, helping to lower the 918 Spyder’s curb mass from 3,715 pounds to 3,616 pounds. Specific measures include the addition of magnesium wheels, a lighter brake design, ceramic wheel bearings, and titanium bolts for the chassis.
There are also add-on parts, mainly to aid aerodynamics, and even a thin film coating for the exterior instead of regular paint. One of these coatings features a classic Martini Racing theme.
The Weissach package’s main focus is reduced weight, helping to lower the 918 Spyder’s curb mass from 3,715 pounds to 3,616 pounds. Specific measures include the addition of magnesium wheels, a lighter brake design, ceramic wheel bearings, and titanium bolts for the chassis.
There are also add-on parts, mainly to aid aerodynamics, and even a thin film coating for the exterior instead of regular paint. One of these coatings features a classic Martini Racing theme.
There's no place for better aerodynamics on a track!
And look how aerodynamic these track monsters are.....
aerodynamic as f'k slipping through that air......
What you're missing here is that the 918 ISN'T a track car, just because it did extremely well on the 'Ring and other tracks that doesn't mean it was designed from the onset as a track car, when was the last time you seen a dedicated street legal track car that was AWD AND a hybrid?
True.
The ACR was designed to be a street legal track car just as the GT2 RS and the ZR1.
Hated a wing on a street Corvette let alone taking one to The Nurburgring!?
Originally Posted by themonk
And look how aerodynamic these track monsters are.....
aerodynamic as f'k slipping through that air......
Forgot one Buckwheat!
The ACR, and the GT2 RS,.....!
Active aero makes a car more Dynamic, but, its not proving to be as good! I think they fixed the 918's wing into one position at The Ring too!
When You change the way you look at things the things you look at change!
Even the sub 10s 1/4 and 2.2s to 60 are doable -2300 DA in the Vette! Milk and groceries! And$
The 918 is for showing and tracking! It's basically just an expensive Felony otherwise!
Did the Ring 918 have a radio!?
The Porsche 918 Spyder Weissach Package is a hybrid sports car designed by Porsche. The Weissach package is an optional, high-performance upgrade over the standard 918 Spyder model. The package features the use of more carbon fibre components, magnesium wheels and aerodynamic improvements.
The Spyder is powered by a naturally-aspirated 4.6L V8 engine and two electric motors, delivering a total of 887 horsepower.
The ACR was designed to be a street legal track car just as the GT2 RS and the ZR1.
Originally Posted by sunsalem
True.
Very true.
Respectfully disagree.
Dedicated "street legal track cars" do not have removable roofs, ventilated seats and trunks for 2 golf clubs sets to name a few.... The ZR1 is not a dedicated track car and Tadge has restated that a few times.
The C7ZR1, just like its predecessor, are sport grand tourers that can be utilized in multiple sport mobility requirements. The “swiss army” knife of sport mobility.
Which takes me back to the merits of the C7 platform/system: the whole enchilada in the fast =S, very fast=GS, super fast=z06, and hyper fast=ZR1 versions.
The “other” platform does it by specialization: want the top off? - 911 Targa, want track? GT2 & GT3 etc etc.. that is why the 911 has 21 models...
Cheers.
Last edited by Telepierre; 01-13-2018 at 11:43 AM.
What you're missing here is that the 918 ISN'T a track car, just because it did extremely well on the 'Ring and other tracks that doesn't mean it was designed from the onset as a track car, when was the last time you seen a dedicated street legal track car that was AWD AND a hybrid?
The ACR was designed to be a street legal track car just as the GT2 RS and the ZR1.
Oh I see, so you get to decide what is and isn't a 'better track car' because of it's original intended purpose? Is that how it goes? Cause for a moment there I thought we were just basing 'better track car' on pure performance, not the manufacturers 'intended' purpose for the car.
Btw, Porsche put the car on the track and touted their Ring time as a record with the 918. And made the Weissach package available on it. So, stop with this garbage about 'not' being a track car.
You had no retort...so your reply was to simply say 'it isn't a track car.'
Guess what...GM isn't building the ZR1 as a dedicated track only car (like the GT2RS), so why even have the discussion about how fast/slow it is on the track vs anything if it's not a track car in the first place? That's just silly.
I get that you LOVE Porsches despite having never owned one...I've owned 5. I like them too, and think they are GREAT cars...and what they did with the GT2RS is impressive...but it's MY personal opinion that the ZR1 is a bigger achievement because it'll do 99% of what the GT2RS does on the track and still let you get groceries and do it for 1/3rd or 1/2 the price. Real world pricing, prob 1/5th of the price. I find that FAR more impressive than what Porsche did with the GT2RS. I also believe it'll hang with and possibly BEAT the GT2RS on some American tracks like VIR and MRLS. Time will tell...
01-10-2018, 11:10 AM
Huh!? ;)
